ELK-M1 GOLD INSTALLATION

[Steve]

Again, it really depends on your exact situation. Neither one is going to affect your electric bill as they are powered from your panel and use minute amounts of current. I'm going to assume protecting a sliding glass door as you stated. So, there are 4 possible ways to fully protect an area with a sliding glass door. You can use any one of them or any combination depending on how thorough you want to be. They are:

1. Standard contact switch to detect opening and closing (much like a window).
2. The 5150 or equivalent on a FIXED pane of glass. This is only an option if you have one fixed pane and one moveable pane.
3. Audio glass break detector
4. Backup motion detector

There are several ways a sliding door is violated...

1. Lock broken and door is slid open. Option 1 above will detect this and also you can use the simple and effective broomstick/dowel/etc in the track to prevent door from sliding (a recommended option on a door not used often)
2. Door lifted out of the track. Again Option 1 will detect this. Option 2 MAY detect it if the fixed side is jarred enough in the process.
3. Brick or other object thrown through the door breaking the glass. Option 1 is worthless on this. Option 2 will catch it on the fixed pane and POSSIBLY on the sliding pane IF the frame on the sliding pane jars the fixed pane enough. Option 3 should also detect this on either pane but if the door glass is laminated sometimes the detectors don't pick it up (although if it is close enough it still should)

Option 4 is a great backup in case any of the above fail. In my home I have options 1, 3 and 4 but I don't have fixed panes, both sides slide. I do use the 5150's on the upper fixed panes of windows however. I like the Sentrol 5820 for normal glass break detection but there are several good kinds and depends on your location, aesthetics, etc.

Any one of the options will connect to a zone and assuming you home run each contact/sensor you will know exactly what went off. The 5150 and standard contacts only need the 2 wires as they are powered by the zone, only the audio glass break (and possible PIR would need 4 wires/separate power).

As for door contacts again it depends what you want/need. But I always try to use the recessed contacts where possible. Other options are mini surface contacts or ones like jamb mounted 'buttons'.

Hope that helps.

 

[gasbie]

Thanks Steve. I just checked the sentrol 5820. How many conductor does it use? 22/2? It also seem like one of those detector that recess into the wall except this is smaller.

 

[Steve]

Like I said, there are all shapes and sizes - flush mount, surface mount etc. They all use 4 wires - I use 22/4.

 

[wuench]

I haven't done smokes yet. You will need to check the instructions on the CO/smoke combo but I would assume 6 wires, 2 for power, 2 for smoke relay, 2 for co relay.

Realize that the smoke alarm will set off you main M1/Siren, so you don't need to worry about it setting off all the rest. But the rest may go off too I don't know.

I thought based on the NEC code, if one alarm goes off, the rest should, right?
Also, how easy is it to make M1 gold to supply 120v to all smoke detectors?
can ELK-m1 gold supply 120v to smoke detector? Which smoke detector/CO detector/heat temp does the M1 supports?
Is the 22/2 and 22/4 wire for keypad (such as russound or m1 keypad) considered low voltage?
Is the 22/2 and 22/4 wire for motion detector considered low voltage?
Is the 22/2 and 22/4 wire for door sensor and window sensor considered low voltage?
Can all these wire run in the same conduit with cat5e?


It also seems that using M1 Gold to power your smoke detector can sometimes be a headache and one can easily violate the code. I think I will just stay away from that. I already have a smoke detector installed on each floor, however, am not sure if they are all interconnect. All I want is just something to alert me while am sleeping in the room if there is a smoke in the house or not.

You wouldn't power the 120v smokes from the M1. They are just wired directly to your electrical panel. But you can get ones, like the GE, that have an additional relay that you wire to an M1 zone, so it knows the smokes are going off and can notify the monitoring company and you that there is a fire. It would just be 22/2 I think. The 120V is daisy chained between smokes and there is usually an additional wire (so 12/3, or 14/3 for the 120V smoke wiring) that is used so the smokes can communicate with each other. So you only need the relay on one and match the manufacturer on all the others. When one smoke goes off the communicate over the 3rd 120V wire so they all go off. Then the one with the relay picks that up and lets the M1 know via the low voltage 22/2 wire (or firewire might be required or a good idea here instead). Not sure if code specifies anything there. The M1 should be able to support any smoke with a low voltage relay, to the M1 it is just another zone. If you are in a retrofit situation (like me) you just swap out all existing smokes with the GE ones, and then on each run put in a GE smoke with relay and run the low voltage wire to that one from the M1.

I don't know what code says about all the alarms having to go off, but I doubt it is the entire house as every house I have ever lived in has multiple runs for smokes. So one whole run or floor might go off together, but not the whole house. There is no way for the two runs to communicate to each other.

Everything that is not 120v or 220v is considered low voltage. That doesn't mean they won't cause interference though. But I haven't had a problem running all of that together.

 

[Digger]

I don't know what code says about all the alarms having to go off, but I doubt it is the entire house as every house I have ever lived in has multiple runs for smokes. So one whole run or floor might go off together, but not the whole house. There is no way for the two runs to communicate to each other.

You can have multiple zones of smoke detectors with sounders have all detectors on all zones sound (even in synch) if you use a reversing relay on each zone and trigger all the relays off the sounder output etc. It costs more but it can be done. I just worked on such an equipment setup to get a UL Listing about a year ago.

Obviously you have to watch your alarm current limitations etc. and follow all of the mfg installation requirements as well as the NFPA etc.

Some localaties will use the International Building Code as a guide and that code has requirements for all sounders to sound (amongest many other requirements).

I am not an expert on this but I have done some work on meeting these requirements.

 

[gasbie]

does anyone knows if I can control this thermostat via a web browser meaning I can control it when I'm away. http://www.smarthome.com/3001C/RCS-Serial-...een-TR60/p.aspx

If anyone one has more recommendation for RS232 or RS-485 thermostat let me know. Thanks

 

[Steve]

Any thermostat that is connected to Elk can be controlled remotely. I am partial to the HAI stats. I have the RC-1000.

 

[gasbie]

quick question, I was just wondering if I can use any touchscreen monitor to control my home automation. Monitors including creston or ELAN VIA monitor: does these monitors have programmable memory in such that It's programmed to work only with their product? Or is it useable with other products that is not of their brand? thanks

 

[Steve]

Typically you can only use the manufacturers own proprietary touch panel with their own system. If you want generic control you will need a Touch Screen/PC and software with drivers (or a dedicated app) to control your stuff. Examples are things like eKeypad, ElkDroid, Snaplink, Haiku, etc for iPhone/iPad/Droids or any of your software from the free Premise to the commercial products like CQC/HomeSeer/Elve that will let you build your own custom interfaces.

 

[gasbie]

Quick question, does all fire wire cable (18/2 or 18/4) have red jacket. I just bought one and it has grey jacket. Is this right? http://www.jack2rack.com/security-alarm-ca...l-box-gray.html

 

[Digger]

Quick question, does all fire wire cable (18/2 or 18/4) have red jacket. I just bought one and it has grey jacket. Is this right? http://www.jack2rack.com/security-alarm-ca...l-box-gray.html

That is NOT fire wire from what I can see. Firewire will usually state that and also be solid not stranded. What you see in the link is alarm wire but not Fire Alarm wire necessarily.

 

[WayneW]

Quick question, does all fire wire cable (18/2 or 18/4) have red jacket. I just bought one and it has grey jacket. Is this right? http://www.jack2rack.com/security-alarm-ca...l-box-gray.html

AFAIK, all FPLR wire (aka fire wire) is red. I don't see an FPLR rating on the wire you linked to. One could argue the web site is wrong for stating it can be used for smoke sensors, etc.

here is FPLR wire http://www.homesecuritystore.com/c-169-fire-wire.aspx

 

[gasbie]

ok, guys. Thanks for correcting me. So my other question is: I was planning on ordering a 1000' roll of the red fire wire. I just learnt that it comes only in solid. Does it come in shielded version or I shouldn't worry about that? Also, I was planning on running 18awg fire wire to my camera. but if I buy 1000' of 18/4, can i still use it for my camera. My cameras use 2 conductor. So can I disable 2 conductor from the 18/4 without any problem, or should I just buy 18/2? thanks.

Well, since I bought that cable in the link above, Can I use it for my glass break detector so that it does go to waste? thanks

 

[johnboy70_99]

ok, guys. Thanks for correcting me. So my other question is: I was planning on ordering a 1000' roll of the red fire wire. I just learnt that it comes only in solid. Does it come in shielded version or I shouldn't worry about that? Also, I was planning on running 18awg fire wire to my camera. but if I buy 1000' of 18/4, can i still use it for my camera. My cameras use 2 conductor. So can I disable 2 conductor from the 18/4 without any problem, or should I just buy 18/2? thanks.

Well, since I bought that cable in the link above, Can I use it for my glass break detector so that it does go to waste? thanks

The fire wire is super expensive - I would look into buying different cable for the cameras

 

[Steve]

Electrically it all works (assuming it is 'big' enough for the job). The lower the gauge the more current it can carry. 22ga is all that's needed for most security stuff. Therefore 18ga will work fine. You just have all the other issues to deal with/look at. Since 18ga is larger it can be a bit more cumbersome to work with (but really not too bad, especially stranded). Then with fire wire you really want to reserve red IMHO for life safety/critical stuff. Some people use it for keypads since they are critical to access a panel. But I would not start using the firewire frivolously on other stuff just to use it. Buy a smaller role or sell it here to somebody else that may need a smaller amount. I would use the 18/4 you bough for cameras before the firewire. Or it will be fine for motions and glass, just a bit overkill.