ELK M1G Install Frustration
- Thread starter geogecko
- Start date
So, while on the subject of keypads, I notice that one of mine has an older boatloads and firmware than the other two. I downloaded the latest firmware, and extracted the files to the proper location, but RP refuses to find any updates when I click the keypad and update...I even tried putting the UPDATES folder in the old location (program files), and that didn't work...
drvnbysound
Senior Member
geogecko said:
What version of Windows are you running?
I haven't updated any KPs, but I know when I've downloaded the XEP firmware, it was an EXE that installed the .bin file into the proper directory for ElkRP to locate and use the file properly.
I ran the EXE file, and it put the files in C://ProgramData/RP/Updates...
I guess I am not too concerned.
However, new problem cropped up. After almost two weeks of running perfectly, in the middle of the night, the keypads started beeping and once again, comm was lost with keypad no 1...ugh.
I haven't confirmed where the issue is, but had another question, it bothers me how I have the data bus wires into the terminal blocks. In the case of the power wires, there are 4 wires going into each connection. Is it standard practice to solder these together, then install in the terminal block? Or do most people just twist them together? Or use a larger conductor, and solder all 4 wires to it, and then just have one conductor going to the terminal block?
I just hope, that I don't have another problem with the prewired connection to that keypad. That is literally the worst possible wired connection that could go bad as far as the wiring in this house.
EDIT: After some reading, it appears it is frowned upon to solder wires together to put under terminal blocks, because of differing metals causing different rates of thermal expansion, which could lead to a bad connection over time...Guess I need to cut off the ends of my tinned power wires (which is what I did from the transformer)... From what I read, its best to use double the length of exposed wire, twist together with your hands, then fold it over to half the length, and use that to terminate at the terminal block...
I guess I am not too concerned.
However, new problem cropped up. After almost two weeks of running perfectly, in the middle of the night, the keypads started beeping and once again, comm was lost with keypad no 1...ugh.
I haven't confirmed where the issue is, but had another question, it bothers me how I have the data bus wires into the terminal blocks. In the case of the power wires, there are 4 wires going into each connection. Is it standard practice to solder these together, then install in the terminal block? Or do most people just twist them together? Or use a larger conductor, and solder all 4 wires to it, and then just have one conductor going to the terminal block?
I just hope, that I don't have another problem with the prewired connection to that keypad. That is literally the worst possible wired connection that could go bad as far as the wiring in this house.
EDIT: After some reading, it appears it is frowned upon to solder wires together to put under terminal blocks, because of differing metals causing different rates of thermal expansion, which could lead to a bad connection over time...Guess I need to cut off the ends of my tinned power wires (which is what I did from the transformer)... From what I read, its best to use double the length of exposed wire, twist together with your hands, then fold it over to half the length, and use that to terminate at the terminal block...
fcwilt
Active Member
Have you observed all of the restrictions on wiring up the data bus?
How many "home runs" of data bus do you have?
Have you stuck to the limit of two terminated devices?
Regards the limit of two - are you using one of these? http://www.elkproducts.com/product-catalog/elk-m1dbh-m1-data-bus-hub
How many "home runs" of data bus do you have?
Have you stuck to the limit of two terminated devices?
Regards the limit of two - are you using one of these? http://www.elkproducts.com/product-catalog/elk-m1dbh-m1-data-bus-hub
Yes on the restrictions.
Two home runs of data buses.
ELK M1 --> Wireless RF Tx/RX --> Utility Keypad (EOL Term)
ELK M1 --> Master Keypad --> Entry Keypad (EOL Term)
With no EOL jumper on the ELK M1
No data bus hubs, all manually wired with 22/4 or Cat 5E.
I just rewired the Wireless RF thinking that may have been it, but still not working.
Ok, so appear to have determined the cause, although I have NO EARTHY IDEA how it happened. All my keypads defaulted back to data bus address '1'. How does that happen? Once I renumbered the other two '2' and '3' things seem to be back to normal...
At this point, I wouldn't feel comfortable hooking this thing to a Central Station until I see no problems for at least a month. I'm very disappointed I've had this many problems.
Two home runs of data buses.
ELK M1 --> Wireless RF Tx/RX --> Utility Keypad (EOL Term)
ELK M1 --> Master Keypad --> Entry Keypad (EOL Term)
With no EOL jumper on the ELK M1
No data bus hubs, all manually wired with 22/4 or Cat 5E.
I just rewired the Wireless RF thinking that may have been it, but still not working.
Ok, so appear to have determined the cause, although I have NO EARTHY IDEA how it happened. All my keypads defaulted back to data bus address '1'. How does that happen? Once I renumbered the other two '2' and '3' things seem to be back to normal...
At this point, I wouldn't feel comfortable hooking this thing to a Central Station until I see no problems for at least a month. I'm very disappointed I've had this many problems.
fcwilt
Active Member
geogecko said:
Glad too see you have followed all the guidelines.
I have had an ELK system for 7-8 years now and it is basically trouble free.
The ELK is tied into an Elan g! system. I have a number of input/output expanders in place as part of various home automation tasks.
I occasionally lose communication (temporarily) with the expander farthest from the ELK but it happens so infrequently I haven't bothered to track down the cause.
I don't think it's a power issue. I ran all power parallel, so all 4 devices have power running directly back to the ELK.
The two devices that are not EOL terminated, i.e., the middle devices, are run with Cat5e, and wired using the color code in the manual for daisy chaining the two data lines. The return wires are then soldered to the data wires of the EOL devices inside the box the M1 is in.
I did do a power calc using the ELK power spreadsheet, and there should be absolutely zero problems running just three keypads and a wireless tx/Rx off of the M1.
I wonder if trying to update the firmware may have caused the keypads to all reset somehow? Even though I was never successful at updating the firmware, maybe the fact that the ELK was trying to do that may have cause them to reset...
The two devices that are not EOL terminated, i.e., the middle devices, are run with Cat5e, and wired using the color code in the manual for daisy chaining the two data lines. The return wires are then soldered to the data wires of the EOL devices inside the box the M1 is in.
I did do a power calc using the ELK power spreadsheet, and there should be absolutely zero problems running just three keypads and a wireless tx/Rx off of the M1.
I wonder if trying to update the firmware may have caused the keypads to all reset somehow? Even though I was never successful at updating the firmware, maybe the fact that the ELK was trying to do that may have cause them to reset...
You're below 1A total load for the entire system? Just the bus hardware puts you at 700 mA, not counting any other peripherals.
Updating firmware does NOT affect bus addresses. I've done many updates on M1's from 2.XX FW up to latest builds, even remotely.
I'd be looking at the media for the cause of the reset before hardware. The M1 is solid hardware (barring a bad device) but the wiring (or voltage) is usually the smoking gun in 99% of the problems out there with bus device issues.
Updating firmware does NOT affect bus addresses. I've done many updates on M1's from 2.XX FW up to latest builds, even remotely.
I'd be looking at the media for the cause of the reset before hardware. The M1 is solid hardware (barring a bad device) but the wiring (or voltage) is usually the smoking gun in 99% of the problems out there with bus device issues.
Well below 1A, according to the Current Draw Worksheet, I'm only at 0.48A, including the ELK. The devices listed are the only ones powered by the ELK, the M1XEP has it's own power supply. No other active sensors or devices are connected.
I will have to keep an eye on it, for now, everything is back to normal after I reassigned the keypad addresses. It would not surprise me if there is still a media issue, but it would have to be really intermittent at this point, to cause a problem after two weeks.
I will have to keep an eye on it, for now, everything is back to normal after I reassigned the keypad addresses. It would not surprise me if there is still a media issue, but it would have to be really intermittent at this point, to cause a problem after two weeks.
drvnbysound
Senior Member
I've seen the KP addresses default (and system restart) when there was a programming error that threw the M1 into an infinite loop :unsure:
That's what I am wondering, if something like that happened when I was in ELK RP. I've been in and out of there tinkering with stuff, and had some strange things happen.
For instance, trying to get the time server working... I get everything in there how I think it should be, send to ELK M1, and then hit the test button, and get disconnected from the M1XEP...
For instance, trying to get the time server working... I get everything in there how I think it should be, send to ELK M1, and then hit the test button, and get disconnected from the M1XEP...
