BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
I also did an thread on some suggestions to incorporate line level output combined with a PC output using an ELK-800 amp and it's double throw on-board relay. Not sure if it helps in this situation, but may be of interest... 
Elk M1G & On-Q inQuire Intercom
- Thread starter Armor Clad
- Start date
I just installed both an ELK M1G and a GreyFox intercom in our new house in Las Vegas. I have connected the GreyFox to Output 1 using a line level output box as described in this thread. I also have the 20W 8 ohm speaker connected to the same output 1.
My only problem is that I have to crank the volume up on the M1G to get a decent volume on the GreyFox. This makes the volume on my external speaker unbearably loud. Does anyone know where to get a decent mono potentiometer that will handle 20W 8 ohms.
I am not too savvy when it comes to these things but I think I might also be able to add a resistor or capacitor inline with the unbearably loud speaker to bring it down to a reaonable volume. I just don't know how to figure out what I would need to do it.
Any ideas or input would be greatly appreciated.
My only problem is that I have to crank the volume up on the M1G to get a decent volume on the GreyFox. This makes the volume on my external speaker unbearably loud. Does anyone know where to get a decent mono potentiometer that will handle 20W 8 ohms.
I am not too savvy when it comes to these things but I think I might also be able to add a resistor or capacitor inline with the unbearably loud speaker to bring it down to a reaonable volume. I just don't know how to figure out what I would need to do it.
Any ideas or input would be greatly appreciated.
Armor Clad
Member
Why do you need your speaker hooked up to output 1 along with the Greyfox intercom? If possible, disconnect the speaker and just use the intercom. The intercom speakers should do just fine even though you have to crank the Elk's output volume.
If you're trying to get a louder siren effect, use output 2 for the siren and reserve output 1 for voice prompts.
George Vander Dussen
Armor Clad Security
Modesto, California
If you're trying to get a louder siren effect, use output 2 for the siren and reserve output 1 for voice prompts.
George Vander Dussen
Armor Clad Security
Modesto, California
Hi George,Armor Clad said:
My M1G, GreyFox, and home automation PC are in the master bedroom closet. I don't have an intercom module anywhere close to the closet to hear the output from the M1G.
BTW, thanks for your previous help in pointing me to this forum.
Rod Rockoff
Armor Clad
Member
The quality of the On-Q intercom speakers is not that great, so I'm not too sure you would really want to use them for music distribution. I am told by On-Q that they are getting ready to release an audio input device to work with the intercom system. The module is intended as a PA input, but can be used for the type of applications we have been discussing here. As far as I know, it's vapor-ware right now.kirkwood said:
johnnynine
Active Member
I've been trying to get this set up for a couple hours now with no luck.
The CAT5/RJ45 plug I am using is wired with the 568B specification. I just cut an existing cat5 cable I bought in half. So the colors for 568B on my cable are:
Pin:
1 = Orange/White
2 = Orange
3 = Green/White
4 = Blue
5 = Blue/White
6 = Green
7 = Brown/White
8 = Brown
One thing I did do a little different is... Radio Shack did not have a 6.8K resistor, so I hooked up 2 2.2K ohm resistors plus 2 100ohm resistors in series. I assume that results in 6.8k ohms. I also assume it doesn't matter which direction you wire the capacitor. The resistors are all 1/2 watt, 5% tolerance and the capacitor is non-polarized 50 volts max.
Since your colors are in an arrangement that I am not familiar with, I just followed your pin #s. I am assuming that your pin 8 brown is the same as my pin 8 brown, which would make your pin 1 blue/white the same as my pin 1 orange/white.
I wired the 6.8K ohm resistor pack side of the speaker level to line level converter to the Output 1 (+) terminal.
I wired the other wire from the converter to NEG on the rs485 data bus (not output 1's - terminal) as described here.
I then wired the capacitor to the pin 4 blue on the rj45 plug, and the other converter wire which essentially comes from NEG pin 2 orange. Remember those are my 568B colors. Lastly I wired pin 7 brown/white (which coincidently is that same as your pin 7 color) to Output 3 N/O.
I set up a rule to turn on output 3 when the amplifier is turned on. This rule is working as I can hear the relay and see the output 3 led illuminate.
One thing that I find odd is that if I short the converter wires from above (blue and orange) my intercom speakers pop (as if the talk or other button was pressed) and I can hear a relay in the greyfox controller click on. It doesn't seem like a relay should be clicking on when I cross those wires.
Other observations using a dc volt meter are as follows:
(voltage is approximate)
1v pin 6 green and pin 8 brown (seems like door button behavior)
8v pin 3 green/white and pin 6 green (nothing happens)
4.5v pin 3 green/white and pin 7 brown/white (nothing happens)
4.5v pin 3 green/white and pin 8 brown (nothing happens)
4.5v pin 3 green/white and pin 2 orange (nothing happens)
1v pin 7 brown/white and pin 6 green (relay on + speaker pop)
1v pin 2 orange and pin 6 green (relay on + speaker pop)
1v pin 2 orange and pin 4 blue (relay on + speaker pop)
Assuming my speaker level converter works, I am wondering if I'm not understanding your pin #s somehow?
Any ideas?
Edit: I ripped the converter out and made another one without the capacitor with the same results.
The CAT5/RJ45 plug I am using is wired with the 568B specification. I just cut an existing cat5 cable I bought in half. So the colors for 568B on my cable are:
Pin:
1 = Orange/White
2 = Orange
3 = Green/White
4 = Blue
5 = Blue/White
6 = Green
7 = Brown/White
8 = Brown
One thing I did do a little different is... Radio Shack did not have a 6.8K resistor, so I hooked up 2 2.2K ohm resistors plus 2 100ohm resistors in series. I assume that results in 6.8k ohms. I also assume it doesn't matter which direction you wire the capacitor. The resistors are all 1/2 watt, 5% tolerance and the capacitor is non-polarized 50 volts max.
Since your colors are in an arrangement that I am not familiar with, I just followed your pin #s. I am assuming that your pin 8 brown is the same as my pin 8 brown, which would make your pin 1 blue/white the same as my pin 1 orange/white.
I wired the 6.8K ohm resistor pack side of the speaker level to line level converter to the Output 1 (+) terminal.
I wired the other wire from the converter to NEG on the rs485 data bus (not output 1's - terminal) as described here.
I then wired the capacitor to the pin 4 blue on the rj45 plug, and the other converter wire which essentially comes from NEG pin 2 orange. Remember those are my 568B colors. Lastly I wired pin 7 brown/white (which coincidently is that same as your pin 7 color) to Output 3 N/O.
I set up a rule to turn on output 3 when the amplifier is turned on. This rule is working as I can hear the relay and see the output 3 led illuminate.
One thing that I find odd is that if I short the converter wires from above (blue and orange) my intercom speakers pop (as if the talk or other button was pressed) and I can hear a relay in the greyfox controller click on. It doesn't seem like a relay should be clicking on when I cross those wires.
Other observations using a dc volt meter are as follows:
(voltage is approximate)
1v pin 6 green and pin 8 brown (seems like door button behavior)
8v pin 3 green/white and pin 6 green (nothing happens)
4.5v pin 3 green/white and pin 7 brown/white (nothing happens)
4.5v pin 3 green/white and pin 8 brown (nothing happens)
4.5v pin 3 green/white and pin 2 orange (nothing happens)
1v pin 7 brown/white and pin 6 green (relay on + speaker pop)
1v pin 2 orange and pin 6 green (relay on + speaker pop)
1v pin 2 orange and pin 4 blue (relay on + speaker pop)
Assuming my speaker level converter works, I am wondering if I'm not understanding your pin #s somehow?
Any ideas?
Edit: I ripped the converter out and made another one without the capacitor with the same results.
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
johnnynine;
I'm not familiar with the system you are trying to interface to, but as far as the preamp output of the Elk, I remember having to play around with the volume settings under the globals tabs.
Don't use a capacitor as I doubt you will find a non-polarized one of that size anyways. What you CAN do is connect a set of headphones to the preamp output and see if you can hear the announcements (come through on one channel only).
The "pop" you hear is a problem with voltage level shifting of the Elk (I believe it's the way the ground is referenced, can't remember). If you play around with the global volume of the Elk and your amplifier gain level you will should be able to find a happy medium.
Good luck,
BSR
I'm not familiar with the system you are trying to interface to, but as far as the preamp output of the Elk, I remember having to play around with the volume settings under the globals tabs.
Don't use a capacitor as I doubt you will find a non-polarized one of that size anyways. What you CAN do is connect a set of headphones to the preamp output and see if you can hear the announcements (come through on one channel only).
The "pop" you hear is a problem with voltage level shifting of the Elk (I believe it's the way the ground is referenced, can't remember). If you play around with the global volume of the Elk and your amplifier gain level you will should be able to find a happy medium.
Good luck,
BSR
johnnynine
Active Member
It works!! - 6 hours later
Here is what I have learned:
1. Armor Clad's pin #s are different than mine, and only by trial and error was I lucky enough to find the correct combinations. I have a Greyfox Intercom Module #F7593. Maybe Armor Clad can give us his # for reference.
2. You can not hear the voice with the default elk volumes set in the Globals section (thanks BSR). I maxed mine out to level 7 for testing and will likely go back and try to match the normal intercom volume. However a level of 7 was not super loud.
3. Increasing the volume causes the elk speaker (if run in parallel) to be unbearably loud. I think this was mentioned earlier in this or another thread. I still run it in parallel but put a 680 ohm resistor on it.
4. Armor Clad's description above does not mention that you need to connect the greyfox ground wire to the Output's Common terminal. Maybe this is obvious.
5. To activate the talk button (for example) connect the Greyfox ground wire to the Greyfox Talk button wire.
From what I can tell, here are my pin #s:
As for "Monitor or Talk?", since they do the same thing (or close to it) I'm not sure what the difference is, or which wire is which. The other two "?" wires could be Relay (changing from Mic to Speaker), and Audio In (Speaker) as Armor Clad mentioned.
Edit: FYI, Greyfox and On-Q joined to become On-Q/Legrand for those wondering. Click here for more.
Here is what I have learned:
1. Armor Clad's pin #s are different than mine, and only by trial and error was I lucky enough to find the correct combinations. I have a Greyfox Intercom Module #F7593. Maybe Armor Clad can give us his # for reference.
2. You can not hear the voice with the default elk volumes set in the Globals section (thanks BSR). I maxed mine out to level 7 for testing and will likely go back and try to match the normal intercom volume. However a level of 7 was not super loud.
3. Increasing the volume causes the elk speaker (if run in parallel) to be unbearably loud. I think this was mentioned earlier in this or another thread. I still run it in parallel but put a 680 ohm resistor on it.
4. Armor Clad's description above does not mention that you need to connect the greyfox ground wire to the Output's Common terminal. Maybe this is obvious.
5. To activate the talk button (for example) connect the Greyfox ground wire to the Greyfox Talk button wire.
From what I can tell, here are my pin #s:
Code:
Greyfox Wire # 568A 568B
? 1 Green/White Orange/White
Monitor or Talk? 2 Green Orange
12VDC Power 3 Orange/White Green/White
Microphone 4 Blue Blue
? 5 Blue/White Blue/White
Ground 6 Orange Green
Monitor or Talk? 7 Brown/White Brown/White
Door Button 8 Brown BrownAs for "Monitor or Talk?", since they do the same thing (or close to it) I'm not sure what the difference is, or which wire is which. The other two "?" wires could be Relay (changing from Mic to Speaker), and Audio In (Speaker) as Armor Clad mentioned.
Edit: FYI, Greyfox and On-Q joined to become On-Q/Legrand for those wondering. Click here for more.
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
Very cool johnnynine! Glad you got it working!
If the Grayfox unit has an adjustable gain, play around with that plus the global "preamp" volume that you maxed out. You want to get in the upper dynamic range (of both units), but not max out to the point where the sound is "non-linear" (i.e. no distortion).
If the Grayfox unit has an adjustable gain, play around with that plus the global "preamp" volume that you maxed out. You want to get in the upper dynamic range (of both units), but not max out to the point where the sound is "non-linear" (i.e. no distortion).
RandyKnight
Active Member
Add me to the list of cocoonetech M1/Greyfox integrators. I'm still having a volume problem though. I've got the global volume set to 7 but the volume is still very low. Intercom volume doesn't seem to affect it either.
I hooked the line level converter up to one side of an AUX input on a stereo receiver and I had to crank that way up to here anything as well.
Maybe I don't have my resistors quite right? I did not include the capacitor but otherwise wired as referenced on the elk site link in this thread.
I hooked the line level converter up to one side of an AUX input on a stereo receiver and I had to crank that way up to here anything as well.
Maybe I don't have my resistors quite right? I did not include the capacitor but otherwise wired as referenced on the elk site link in this thread.
RandyKnight
Active Member
I'm also having trouble with connecting the talk pin to an output, but this is my first foray into Elk outputs so I may be doing something wrong. For my testing before, I just hardwired the talk wire to the ground and it activated talk just fine. So now I've got it hooked up to an output on an output expander but when I turn on the output I get nothing.
The output expander is set to address 2, which means it should be 1=17, 2=18, and so forth right? How can I test an output / what voltage should I see on the flying lead when it is on vs. off, etc.?
The output expander is set to address 2, which means it should be 1=17, 2=18, and so forth right? How can I test an output / what voltage should I see on the flying lead when it is on vs. off, etc.?
johnnynine
Active Member
Randy, it works for me with and without the capacitor. In fact I didn't really notice any difference in sound either way.RandyKnight said:
However my resistors are a little different. I could not find a packet of 6.8k ohm resistors so I just hooked up two 3.3k resistors in series (or something close to that). I also still have the volume set to 7 and may intercom volume is somewhere between 2 and 3 leds.
Randy, just out of curiosity, could you give us your model number and which pin layouts worked for you. Thanks.
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