Fingerprint access control for daycare

[programmergeek]

Biometric is a nice dream but not there yet. For now RFID is the best to id individual identity. A security camera or several is a must. Good luck on the biometric rout let me know if you find something that works. I can see all the women wanting to take off tere gloves in the winter trying to get in to a reader with a mosture issue. Been there tried that.

 

[tmbrown97]

honestly, my suggestion is telling them to do a search for local vendors and access control... any other way you're gonna get yourself into a nightmare.

All any of this does is give the parents a false sense of security and keep the real crazies out... the determined malicious types can follow someone else in; use a decoy, etc... everyone holds the door open for others - it's part of going in/out of daycare - little kids take forever at the door - they like to play with it, prove they can open it (establish independence) - honestly that's why I'm glad my daycare place *always* has someone at the front desk - but if someone walks in with a gun, that doesn't stop anything or anyone either.

I guess my point is, the current security is as good as any you can get - it's just a PITA to maintain for the staff and for the parents to remember new codes. Nothing proposed here will increase security at all - just change the administrative aspect.

 

[mikejrc]

well said work2play....couldnt agree more with you

 

[tmbrown97]

sorry signal - just read the post I missed earlier about them wanting to convey better security (even if it is a false sense)...

If you/they want to go down the biometric path, I have a lot of experience there... Optical recognition works the best as far as unique identification, but it's easy to fake... Capacitive isn't as dead-on and is prone to temperature differences, etc - but seems harder to fake with copies. I've even done testing with a finger-vein reader... you're not faking that for anything, but it was a PITA to get positioned just right.

For something with high traffic and variables, if you really want Biometrics, I'd probably suggest the Ingersol Rand Hand Scanners - they take measurements of your hand - length of fingers and width in a 3D model - they adjust for things like temperature where your hands swell a little or shrink - and once you're used to them, they're easy and reliable - they're just a bit larger than little fingerprint readers. I even have 4 of them laying around I'm not using - they have custom software on them, but if you find someone willing to work with them, I'll send you one for free (seriously - and if you use it and get it up and running, I'll send a 2nd for a shelf backup). I tested them but never deployed them because of unique network connectivity issues (very unique to my company).

That said, I still also fully stand by my above comments - this is all a false sense of security - just a better one... the above issues still exist and you're still really no more secure.

If you want real security, you need one-way paths for entry/exit - so someone leaving doesn't hold the door for someone entering - you need a good man trap, and you need someone on duty who can override a valid access-request because someone following them looks suspicious - someone watching at all times. Technology alone can't solve this.

 

[mikejrc]

a man trap thats exactly what i was thinking....

we have them a lot here in vegas inside the casinos, i recently had to do some work inside an area where they had all the money and its pretty cool how something so simple could be so effective, you are pretty much trapped and filmed while someone lets you in

if all daycares had this that would really up the security factor, they will have a record of who came in an out and if someone tries to walk out with your kid it would make it a lot more difficult for someone to even be stupid enough to try knowing you are being recorded at all times and possible trapped on the spot if caught on time.

some banks in vegas are using man traps too, wells fargo

 

[signal15]

a man trap thats exactly what i was thinking....

we have them a lot here in vegas inside the casinos, i recently had to do some work inside an area where they had all the money and its pretty cool how something so simple could be so effective, you are pretty much trapped and filmed while someone lets you in

if all daycares had this that would really up the security factor, they will have a record of who came in an out and if someone tries to walk out with your kid it would make it a lot more difficult for someone to even be stupid enough to try knowing you are being recorded at all times and possible trapped on the spot if caught on time.

some banks in vegas are using man traps too, wells fargo

Many of the biometric stuff I've seen has a keypad on it to enter a secret ID code, and then you also scan your fingerprint or hand. It's effective 2 factor authentication, with a very low chance of erroneous authentications.

I mentioned above they want to convey high security... but they also WANT high security. The man trap is a good idea, but the problem is that they don't always have someone manning the door, they are relying on their current keypad. Some of the places I've been in used a scale under the floor in the man trap to make sure you weren't bringing someone in with you, or carting equipment out. That's probably not a reasonable thing to put in for them, especially when people will be potentially bringing one or two kids through with them, bags, and all sorts of other crap.

Like I said, I'm not doing any of the work. I'm just looking for suggestions. Then I'm going to have a friend at a local distributor refer them to one of his customers that deals with this stuff. I just want to vet the solution to make sure it's something that is going to work and they will be happy with, rather than something the installer makes the most money on.

 

[Del91574]

How about a simple standalone controller and prox reader and have them build the price of credentials into a security deposit sort of thing. Something like a HID Edge type controller or even simpler is the easiest for them to work.

Keep in mind, usually with these setups and strikes, make sure they don't forget about fire code and crash bars and the like.

 

[drvnbysound]

Many of the biometric stuff I've seen has a keypad on it to enter a secret ID code, and then you also scan your fingerprint or hand. It's effective 2 factor authentication, with a very low chance of erroneous authentications.

I have also seen fingerprint readers that require a badge to be swiped first (vs. using PINs).

 

[signal15]

I have also seen fingerprint readers that require a badge to be swiped first (vs. using PINs).

They don't want prox cards or keyfobs. Personally, I wouldn't want that either. I have a stack of 50+ of these things that I have to flip through when I'm working, and I don't need yet another one.