Fire/Smoke detector in cold garage
- Thread starter mikefamig
- Start date
I think that most detectors with electronic components will have trouble in freezing temperatures, so that probably rules out anything that is wireless.
Your best bet is probably a wired, mechanical, rate-of-rise heat detector. And probably a better choice for a garage anyway compared to a smoke detector.
Your best bet is probably a wired, mechanical, rate-of-rise heat detector. And probably a better choice for a garage anyway compared to a smoke detector.
Smoke detectors and garages are a no-no in 99.5% of the applications out there. The other part of the equation is the listing, even on hardwired units, it's going to rule out the normal operating range in the majority of the installs out there.
Usually, unless there's living space attached or above, heat detectors are going to be the answer.
Now, that brings up another issue with the Elk 2 way RF....their universal transmitters are NC unsupervised circuits only, so hardwired or another technology would need to be used.
Usually, unless there's living space attached or above, heat detectors are going to be the answer.
Now, that brings up another issue with the Elk 2 way RF....their universal transmitters are NC unsupervised circuits only, so hardwired or another technology would need to be used.
DELInstallations said:
The 6050 is supervised. This is from the install manual:
Set Supervision Type to "3" (Fire Supervision) - To do this
press the ELK or the Select Wireless key to locate Sub-Menu: 2:Xmit
Transmitter Opt. Scroll to the desired wireless zone, press Select
(right arrow) and scroll to Option 2: Supervision Type. Change or
verify that this is set to "3." The Supervision Type informs the Control
to expect a supervisory check-in report from the 6050 detector
approximately every 64 minutes. If set to "0" the control will not
expect a supervisory check-in, thus leaving the device unsupervised.
A separate M1 option sets the number of missed check-ins that will
be allowed before a sensor is declared missing.
Mike.
I found a rate-of-rise temp sensor that has an opeating temp of -20 to 150 degF but I don't think that it can be wired to a panel and is stand alone only. The company Edwards signaling is right here in CT and maybe I'll give them a call.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Edwards-Signaling-Conventional-Heat-Detector-Rate-of-Rise-and-Fixed-Temperature-281B-PL/204985097
Mike.
Correction, I found the install manual and this looks like it can work for me. Del are you familiar with Edwards?
http://www.edwards-signals.com/files/3100341_R1.0_280_Heats.pdf
Mike.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Edwards-Signaling-Conventional-Heat-Detector-Rate-of-Rise-and-Fixed-Temperature-281B-PL/204985097
Mike.
Correction, I found the install manual and this looks like it can work for me. Del are you familiar with Edwards?
http://www.edwards-signals.com/files/3100341_R1.0_280_Heats.pdf
Mike.
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
Here is one that will go from -4 F to 100 F
http://systemsensor.com/en-us/Documents/Heat_Series_Manual_I56-3860.pdf
http://systemsensor.com/en-us/Documents/Heat_Series_Manual_I56-3860.pdf
Thanks!BraveSirRobbin said:
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I have been reading for the last hour and one thing that I learned for certain (as usual) is how little I know. I just learned about FPL cable and the ability to power the alarm from the 120 AC voltage which I think I will be doing.
Can you explain to me the difference between 2 wire and 4 wire detectors? Is it two wires for power and two more for relay signal back to the panel?
Mike.
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
I believe that heat sensor does not get powered as it just contains a mechanical mechanism that changes the state of a contact during a certain detected rate of rise and/or a fixed temp range.
You would use conventional EOL resistors based on either NC or NO contacts (series or parallel the resistor at the detector).
You would use conventional EOL resistors based on either NC or NO contacts (series or parallel the resistor at the detector).
mikefamig said:
How the power is supplied to 2-wire and 4-wire is just part of the difference.
There have been some good discussions of the differences in several other threads.
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/20493-2-wire-vs-4-wire-smokes/
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/3823-smoke-detectors-2-wire-vs-4-wire/
The connected loop is NOT supervised, transmission repetition is only part of the equation and "fire supervision" only shortens the RF check in signal interval. In the world of fire, everything needs to be EOLR supervised or fed back to the panel (style 6) but that's another can of worms,mikefamig said:
@ BSR, you cited an addressable device. Not compatible with an analog panel. Fire is always going to be wired with a device having NO contacts with an EOLR in parallel at the end. A short is always going to be an alarm and an open will always be a trouble. Nature of the beast. Initiating devices will never be NC, you can't differentiate between an alarm condition and a broken wire.
@ Mike, if you're intending on doing remote fire in a detached building, pay close attention to the power backup, assuming a remote expander. A dropped expander will equate to an alarm condition to a CS. Also, once the fire alarm circuit (or communications) leave the building, you are supposed to put suppression on each side to be code compliant.
DELInstallations said:
Thanks for the info. Isn't the elk 2way smoke UL listed? How did they get it listed without the EOLR?
@ Mike, if you're intending on doing remote fire in a detached building, pay close attention to the power backup, assuming a remote expander. A dropped expander will equate to an alarm condition to a CS. Also, once the fire alarm circuit (or communications) leave the building, you are supposed to put suppression on each side to be code complian
No I don't plan on using the wireless smoke in the garage, only in the house. I'm looking a a wired fixed/rate-of-rise temp sensor now and I'm just in the learning stage. I have a lot of reading to do. So far I've learned about units that are powered and un-powered, two wire and four wire and I have no idea yet what I am doing. Any suggestions?
Wireless. The device is integral vs. a wired detection circuit back to a transmitter. Honeywell and GE offer RF heat detectors (although limited to 135 degrees for listing/operation purposes). The units are typically tampered (supervise removal) and anything off normal is reported (LB) and a missed check in would generate a trouble. In the case of a wired heat back to a transmitter, there's a lot of things that could be done and not report back to a CS, but the largest offender is removing a defective device and wiring the loop back to keep the panel happy, happens WAY too often. An alarm vendor that is a town over from you has a glass case with beautifully painted heat detectors and the piece d' resistance is heats and smokes that were "popcorned" by a ceiling/sheetrock contractor.
As far as separate transmitters connected to a wired detector, GE units have a resistor but can't remember if they're listed off the top of my head. Honeywell has a commercial fire listed transmitter with EOLR. Cable length is still limited.
Again, if you're wiring the device, once there's an expander in the field involved or a home run back to the panel, surge suppression is mandated if the cable leaves the building.If you connect to an expander in the field, especially with a M1, a missing or lost expander will be a fire alarm reported. Experienced that on a job before, so that's why I've gotten in the habit of pulling enough copper and trying to get back to the panel wherever possible.
As far as separate transmitters connected to a wired detector, GE units have a resistor but can't remember if they're listed off the top of my head. Honeywell has a commercial fire listed transmitter with EOLR. Cable length is still limited.
Again, if you're wiring the device, once there's an expander in the field involved or a home run back to the panel, surge suppression is mandated if the cable leaves the building.If you connect to an expander in the field, especially with a M1, a missing or lost expander will be a fire alarm reported. Experienced that on a job before, so that's why I've gotten in the habit of pulling enough copper and trying to get back to the panel wherever possible.
