Garage Control

[iostream212]

iostream212 - did you do this yet?

The reason I ask - if you're in the neighborhood where I think you are, your service entrance is probably on the other side of your garage wall - and if so, it's pretty likely that there are two cat5's going from the service entrance into the enclosure in your closet. Even if you are using one for a telephone, you should have a spare that you could poke through into the garage - you could then extend the M1 Data Bus over that into the garage, and open up a whole host of options; like an M1RB, M1XOVR and M1XIN (at least that's what's in mine) - and you've got sprinkler control, garage door outputs, 16 inputs you can use, etc... lots of stuff you can do then.

Wow! Genius! The way I was going to do it before was through a smurf tube that was in my telephone access box. The smurf tube runs up about ten feet, then back towards the house about 10 feet, then up 10 feet more to the seconds story attic... I've been thinking about the pull for weeks now. The fact is I don't have telephone service. Duh! Why not use those cables? Thanks Work2Play! That is just perfect!

 

[tmbrown97]

Sweet - let me know how it works out!

Smurf tube is great - it's far better than nothing at all because it gives you options far better than dealing with cables that are stapled to your studs - but the reality is, it's a b***h to pull additional cables through if there's no pull string; you pretty much have to sacrifice what's there as a pull wire to pull something new.

I found that the 14" can that comes with the elk is of no use at all in the main install; but makes an excellent Garage can! And your sprinkler location is likely to be right near the service entrance making this whole thing pretty simple - gets you garage door control, sprinklers, and even hardwired inputs for gate, garage doors, and the exterior man door if you'd like!

 

[iostream212]

Sweet - let me know how it works out!

Smurf tube is great - it's far better than nothing at all because it gives you options far better than dealing with cables that are stapled to your studs - but the reality is, it's a b***h to pull additional cables through if there's no pull string; you pretty much have to sacrifice what's there as a pull wire to pull something new.

I found that the 14" can that comes with the elk is of no use at all in the main install; but makes an excellent Garage can! And your sprinkler location is likely to be right near the service entrance making this whole thing pretty simple - gets you garage door control, sprinklers, and even hardwired inputs for gate, garage doors, and the exterior man door if you'd like!

I saw on 'This Old House' an electrician pulling wire through an existing smurf tube with a string tied to a plug that fit the size of the tube. At the other end he put a shop vac to it and it pulled the pug through with the string attached. He then tied his wires to the string and pulled them through. I was going to see if I could do something like that before your idea.

 

[mustangcoupe]

I saw on 'This Old House' an electrician pulling wire through an existing smurf tube with a string tied to a plug that fit the size of the tube. At the other end he put a shop vac to it and it pulled the pug through with the string attached. He then tied his wires to the string and pulled them through. I was going to see if I could do something like that before your idea.

I have done this before with regular Glued PVC conduit and tied a piece of plastic shopping bag to the end of the string and used it as a parachute and used a vac to pull it through and I got my string...

 

[Swancoat]

I've heard of people doing the same trick with just a string tied to a balled-up Kleenex or something like that.

 

[apostolakisl]

I pulled a string through 150 feet of buried conduit with one elbow in it using a styrofoam peanut and a shop vac. It works so well that you need to remember to tie down the other end or it will suck it all up into the shop vac before you realize it.

 

[tmbrown97]

I have heard the bag/string trick before - I've been tempted to try it a few times... but, if the Cat5 is sitting there unused, might as well use it! Every tough run I've done I've just sacrificed an existing cable to get string in the can, then re-run the sacrificial cable after the fact either by pulling it back through or running a new replacement line along with whatever else I was pulling. I won't even get into how much I hate fish tape...

Home Depot sells a bucket with like 5,000 ft. of poly line for so cheap it's ridiculous (like $15-$20 iirc) - given my background in IT I never do that struggle more than once - I leave a pull string behind in everything I work on.

 

[mikejrc]

yeah that plug we electricians call it a mouse. Greenlee makes a kit for different conduit sizes.
we use the always available piece of plastic bag or any lightweight material that would travel easily attached to the poly line and a good vacuum.
yes I also hate fish tapes. metallic conduit is most of the time installed using set screw fittings that leave gaps where the air escapes, unless compression fittings are used we are forced to use fish tapes.
and yes it should be a common practice to leave a string any time you install conduit, but that's not always the case.

 

[apostolakisl]

seriously guys, vacuum, pull string, something fluffy, it's soooo eeeeeeeasy! It's easier than putting the line in while you install the conduit. I have never put a pull string in any conduit and I put hundreds of feet of conduit in my house and have never spent more than 5 minutes getting a wire in. By far, the most time consuming thing is getting to each end of the conduit with the wire and getting into such a position that it won't get knotted up as you pull it.

The metal conduit with non-air-tight seals is a good point. But, the vac would probably still work on a shorter run without too many fittings.

 

[sjht]

Another way would be to set up a UPB network and use a UPB device that can close a relay. Plug it into the outlet where the opener is plugged in, and wire the relay in parallel with the door button.

My setup is hardwired. I'm in the HAI camp but I think the concepts are all the same in Elk-land. I pulled a single Cat5 to my garage when the house was built. I used that to put an expansion enclosure in the storage room that is off the garage. From there, I have magnetic contacts to each of the two garage doors, a motion, and a glass break. There are also two relays wired in parallel to each of the door buttons.

I put icons on my touch screen that indicate if each door is open or closed. You can open either door by pressing the icon; there is code that checks if the door is already open and if so, it does nothing. There is a third icon that closes both doors. When you press that one, it runs code that checks and closes any door that is open, and then it sets an 18-second timer. When the timer expires, it checks the doors again. If either one is still showing as open, it beeps the console and displays a "Garage door blocked" message. Setting the alarm to night mode also runs the close-garage-doors code, so if I forget to check them before I go to bed, they will be closed automatically when I set the alarm.

How did you connect the HAI to the garage door opener? I know that most garage door controls have two wires, but not sure how it communicates as there are buttons for open/close, light, etc. I currently have sensors on the garage doors (wired) to 2 zones on the HAI Omnipro2 (for security). Prefer a hard wire option from the HAI to the garage door opener. Thanks. SJ

 

[ano]

How did you connect the HAI to the garage door opener? I know that most garage door controls have two wires, but not sure how it communicates as there are buttons for open/close, light, etc. I currently have sensors on the garage doors (wired) to 2 zones on the HAI Omnipro2 (for security). Prefer a hard wire option from the HAI to the garage door opener. Thanks. SJ

With most garage door openers its just a matter of shorting together the two wires that lead to the button. You just connect a relay to the HAI output of your choice, and the contacts lead to the opener button. HAI sell 4 or 8 relay backs for just such a use.

There are some garage opener buttons with lighting controls, locks and other gizmos, but even these typically can open or close the door by shorting together the two wires.

 

[tmbrown97]

I hate to be one to say "Use the search" but in this case it's been covered a lot of times and there are some specifics - that said I'll give you some of the common points, but searching you could probably find much of this covered in great detail.

As ano said, generally you can just short the wires regardless of what the control panel looks like; however if you have and like the smart features and there's a clock (there often is I guess) this shorting of the wires generally resets the clock/thermostat on the control. It shouldn't otherwise matter though.

For my openers I didn't care about the smart control - I just replaced them with standard doorbell-style controls so nothing was lost to me.

It has been mentioned that you'll get better results connecting to the opener wires at the opener rather than at the button - not something I have first-hand experience with (because I always interface at the opener) but others have mentioned it helping.

If you want to keep the smart panel working uninterrupted, there are some considerations. The way these smart controls generally work is by affecting the resistance when the button is pressed, rather than just a direct short - you can try to find the resistance that'll close the door and not screw up the control - or you can solder directly onto the smart control's button contacts to mimic pressing the button - or you can use the hack that involves hooking a relay to one of the remotes by soldering onto the button terminals (quite a handy hack - very reliable).

If you still have questions, post which way you're leaning towards.

 

[sjht]

I tried just shorting the two terminals out (at the opener) and the door opened right up. So, I'm going to wire directly to the opener. Currently, I do not have any relays connected to my HAI OmniproII, but I assume they connect to the output terminals. Thanks for your help. SJ

 

[ano]

I tried just shorting the two terminals out (at the opener) and the door opened right up. So, I'm going to wire directly to the opener. Currently, I do not have any relays connected to my HAI OmniproII, but I assume they connect to the output terminals. Thanks for your help. SJ

Yes, relay connects to the panel, opener connects to the relay. You don't have to use HAI relays, but I really would suggest you use them. They are designed to work with the panel, and protect the panel from the voltage spikes that relays produce, and their current draw is within the panel rating.

 

[sjht]

I just ordered an HAI relay. Looks very straightforward. Thanks again for your help. SJ