General Questions about Insteon

RichTJ99

Active Member
Hi,

There seems to be a lot of talk about the quality of Insteon switches and hardware.

Are they really that prone to dying? The wiring is pretty easy so changing them out isn’t challenging but I could see it being annoying if it happened often. The warranty support seems to be pretty good, but again I would prefer to have something that works well.

Do the switches work up & down (up for on, down for off)? I believe the Zwave switches have the bottom do on & off & I am not sure what the top part of the switch does.

Is there a delay when pressing the wall switches & the light coming on?

Are their any in wall power outlets (I cant seem to find any)? How well does Insteon work with CQC (can you make it do pretty much whatever you want)?

Is there some way to make a remote control turn the Insteon lighting (aside from that new product remote)? Can you get somehow use the X10 remotes to access the Insteon without using the X10 protocol (the remotes are cheap & easy to use)?

Is the Insteon protocol different from X10? How does Insteon control X10 if the protocol is different?

Does the Insteon protocol support the 2 way communication / letting you know the switches current status in CQC or other software?

Does Insteon work more reliably without any X10 hardware in the mix (Insteon only vs Insteon with X10)?

Does Insteon really have a mesh network (lots of people on the forum say this is not the case).

The Insteon, has plug in units so I do not need to do rewiring to join the two 100amp circuits? I think they just came out with something new which does that & maybe RF as well (that area is a little fuzzy to me).

I could see using Zwave & possibly another item as well (as Zwave currently doesnt offer much).

Thanks,
Rich
 
Hi,

There seems to be a lot of talk about the quality of Insteon switches and hardware.

Are they really that prone to dying? The wiring is pretty easy so changing them out isn’t challenging but I could see it being annoying if it happened often. The warranty support seems to be pretty good, but again I would prefer to have something that works well.

I have around 160 Insteon devices and have had maybe 6 actual failures. I have had to deal with some recalls and replacements for firmware reasons (keypad flicker) so my total replacements has been something like 18 wired devices and 25 plug-in ones.

Do the switches work up & down (up for on, down for off)? I believe the Zwave switches have the bottom do on & off & I am not sure what the top part of the switch does.

Insteon does top on bottom off. I think the Vizia Z-Wave devices are bottom on/off.
 
Is there a delay when pressing the wall switches & the light coming on?

No. That is a UPB problem, not Insteon.

Are their any in wall power outlets (I cant seem to find any)?

Not yet

How well does Insteon work with CQC (can you make it do pretty much whatever you want)?

Sorry, I don't know CQC.

Is there some way to make a remote control turn the Insteon lighting (aside from that new product remote)? Can you get somehow use the X10 remotes to access the Insteon without using the X10 protocol (the remotes are cheap & easy to use)?

You can use a program like PowerHome or Homeseer to receive the X-10 RF and execute Insteon commands.

Is the Insteon protocol different from X10? How does Insteon control X10 if the protocol is different?

Insteon devices can use both the Insteon protocol and the X-10 protocol.

Does the Insteon protocol support the 2 way communication / letting you know the switches current status in CQC or other software?

Yes

Does Insteon work more reliably without any X10 hardware in the mix (Insteon only vs Insteon with X10)?

The Insteon part doesn't care. The X-10 part may get flaky.

Does Insteon really have a mesh network (lots of people on the forum say this is not the case).

There is much debate but I would say by most definitions no. I am also of the opinion that mesh networks are not neccessarily a good thing. Why do you believe you want one?

The Insteon, has plug in units so I do not need to do rewiring to join the two 100amp circuits? I think they just came out with something new which does that & maybe RF as well (that area is a little fuzzy to me).

Go with the new ones.

I could see using Zwave & possibly another item as well (as Zwave currently doesnt offer much).

Thanks,
Rich
 
QUOTE
How well does Insteon work with CQC (can you make it do pretty much whatever you want)?


Sorry, I don't know CQC.

I'm in the very early stages of setting up CQC, and I have it performing basic timers and events with Insteon. The person who wrote the driver seems like a great guy and willing to make changes/fixes if needed. It seems pretty good right now, but I haven't gotten too advanced with CQC yet.
 
There seems to be a lot of talk about the quality of Insteon switches and hardware.

Are they really that prone to dying? The wiring is pretty easy so changing them out isn’t challenging but I could see it being annoying if it happened often.
I think it depends on the installation location. I believe I have a higher than average amount of ESD and that may have contributed to my higher than average failure rate. Just because some members haven't had any failures, some like myself have had quite a few.

Also, it is not good to change switches often. It stresses the solid copper wire pulling it in and out of the boxes.

Do the switches work up & down (up for on, down for off)? I believe the Zwave switches have the bottom do on & off & I am not sure what the top part of the switch does.

Yes. The Vizia switches are a toggle. They just toggle between states. The Insteon will send and ON command on a top press and an OFF command on a bottom press.

Is there a delay when pressing the wall switches & the light coming on?

No with clarification. As a general rule, there is no delay. Sometimes a device will get its data corrupted and will start to lag on commands. A factory reset and reprogramming will fix this.

Does Insteon really have a mesh network (lots of people on the forum say this is not the case).
IMHO, yes it does as every device repeats any commands it receives. Where I think some of the argument is SH's claim that it is a dual-protocol mesh network. As far as I can tell, it is only mesh over the powerline and not mesh over RF. Plus, until about a week ago, there were no RF devices save the Signallincs.
 
Hi,

Thanks for all the responses folks. I had a few questions from my questions.

The X10 remotes, is that a RF remote or an IR remote? How does that work with Homeseer or the other various types of software? The PowerLinc can get the X10 RF signals (assuming its RF) and Homeseer (or other software) can translate that signal into a command for Insteon? Is that a reliable way of using a remote (provided the PC is running) & what most people do when using that combo?

Does the X10 remote usage translate into using the X10 protocol for Insteon devices?

So since Insteon has a 2 way protocol, is that the main difference from the X10 protocol?

I have read so much about people not liking the Insteon, I would have to assume either they sell junky products, or the people that are having problems come to a forum to complain & the people that dont have problems, never bother looking for a support forum.

I admit the Keylinc panel seems very nice in that you can have the Keylink replace an actual light switch and also have the combo of controling other light switches (that might solve an issue I have with a 3 wall gangbox & 4 controllers).

The Access points- how do those differ from the other power couplers (signallinc)?

Is there a way to use a dimmer on a large device like a household attic fan?

What do most Insteon owners use as a remote (is it the X10 combo)?

Thanks,
Rich
 
The X10 remotes, is that a RF remote or an IR remote?

I use X10 RF remotes, and also a Harmony IR remote with an X10 IR bridge.

I have read so much about people not liking the Insteon, I would have to assume either they sell junky products, or the people that are having problems come to a forum to complain & the people that dont have problems, never bother looking for a support forum.

I think that's part of it. SmartHome could definitely improve their quality control. I personally think some people are being unreasonable, but there are plenty of people with legitimate complaints. Overall, I'm very happy with the product so far.

The Access points- how do those differ from the other power couplers (signallinc)?

The AccessPoints support their soon-to-be released remote control, and assumedly future RF devices, as well as bridging the phases of your power line. The SignalLinc ONLY bridges the phases of your power line.

What do most Insteon owners use as a remote (is it the X10 combo)?

I use X10 remotes for now, but can't wait to go all-Insteon in the future.
 
Mike,

To confirm, the only way to use a X10 remote with Insteon is with a PC & software (CQC, Homeseer, etc)?

Thanks,
Rich
 
Mike,

To confirm, the only way to use a X10 remote with Insteon is with a PC & software (CQC, Homeseer, etc)?

Thanks,
Rich

No, Insteon switches can physically be assigned X10 addresses. However, depending on how reliable X10 is in your house, and the complexity of what you want to do with your X10 remotes, sometimes a PC works better.

In my case, the more Insteon switches I added, the weaker my X10 signal was getting. There was 1 or 2 switches I couldn't reach once I had all of my Insteon switches installed. Instead of troubleshooting my X10 issues, I decided use my PC to translate.

Also, I want to trigger PLC groups (hit a remote button, my driveway light goes on along with 8 KeypadLinc buttons) - I couldn't do that reliably without a PC.
 
I have read so much about people not liking the Insteon, I would have to assume either they sell junky products, or the people that are having problems come to a forum to complain & the people that dont have problems, never bother looking for a support forum.
I think that's part of it. SmartHome could definitely improve their quality control. I personally think some people are being unreasonable, but there are plenty of people with legitimate complaints. Overall, I'm very happy with the product so far.
Mike -
I agree that SH has had some QE/QC problems, but I have about 50 devices that work great. I replaced a few flickerers early on with no issues since.

The biggest issue that SH has with public opinion is their forum, which has become collection of WHINERS! :wacko: I was one of the many early adopters who tried to help people through the learning process and I have quit trying due to this! There are a few posters with personal agendas, there are some competitors trolls and there are some with specific products they are demanding!! They have also had a few spammers that post on the forum as well as send personal emails. Most of the experienced users don't support the forum anymore! :(

All in All, the Smarthome Insteon forum has little worth anymore and SH needs to re-engineer the forum to help resolve their public relations problem.
 
Just a FYI, but if you ever invest in the Elk M1 Security System/home automation controller, you wouldn't need a PC (assuming you buy the right add-ons). I use my X10 RF remotes to control my UPB gear, works great!
 
I agree that SH has had some QE/QC problems, but I have about 50 devices that work great. I replaced a few flickerers early on with no issues since.

I had some switches come in with issues right out of the box, several of them obvious (I didn't even have to install it to detect an issue - just by pressing the paddle up/down I could tell it wasn't right). I also think the varying brightness and different tints is unacceptable - somebody from quality control should have seen those and sent them right back. I have probably 10 installed in my house that at are overly bright. I've arranged them so there aren't 2 in a box, but if ever one of them needs to be replaced I'll have to replace any next to it, or it will look silly. I'm glad that SmartHome has settled back in to their original brightness on both the dimmers and relays, and I hope they stay that way.

That being said, now that I worked the kinks out and have mine installed, reliability has been great for the past 6 months or so. I purchased the extended warranties on all my switches (well worth the $3), but I hope I never have to use them.

The biggest issue that SH has with public opinion is their forum, which has become collection of WHINERS! I was one of the many early adopters who tried to help people through the learning process and I have quit trying due to this! There are a few posters with personal agendas, there are some competitors trolls and there are some with specific products they are demanding!! They have also had a few spammers that post on the forum as well as send personal emails. Most of the experienced users don't support the forum anymore!

I agree.
 
I also think the varying brightness and different tints is unacceptable - somebody from quality control should have seen those and sent them right back. I have probably 10 installed in my house that at are overly bright. I've arranged them so there aren't 2 in a box, but if ever one of them needs to be replaced I'll have to replace any next to it, or it will look silly. I'm glad that SmartHome has settled back in to their original brightness on both the dimmers and relays, and I hope they stay that way.

There has been lots of blame laid on SH's marketing department, but I lay the blame on this one on purchasing and/or finance. In trying to meet a price point, SH has gone with the lowest priced materials available. So if a another vendor had cheaper LED's, SH went that way even if the color was off slightly.



That being said, now that I worked the kinks out and have mine installed, reliability has been great for the past 6 months or so. I purchased the extended warranties on all my switches (well worth the $3), but I hope I never have to use them.

I have been wondering about the warranty coverage. Now that switchlincs are coming up on the end of their warranty period, if you bought switches over a period of time as many here have, how will SH know which ones are out of warranty? What if after you started having failures, you started buying the extended warranty. How will SH know the switch you are calling to replace is or isn't covered by the extended warranty?

I see the potential for there being lots of warranty issues when there is no way to identify when a particular switch was purchased (Yes I think SH can determine manuafacture date by the code, but I have seen some of these stickers fall off).
 
There has been lots of blame laid on SH's marketing department, but I lay the blame on this one on purchasing and/or finance. In trying to meet a price point, SH has gone with the lowest priced materials available. So if a another vendor had cheaper LED's, SH went that way even if the color was off slightly.

Is this just a guess, or do you have some sort of inside info from SmartHome?

I have been wondering about the warranty coverage. Now that switchlincs are coming up on the end of their warranty period, if you bought switches over a period of time as many here have, how will SH know which ones are out of warranty? What if after you started having failures, you started buying the extended warranty. How will SH know the switch you are calling to replace is or isn't covered by the extended warranty?

I keep track of my installs, so I know what's what. As far as Smarthome is concerned, I have no idea how they would handle it. I assume they can identify the switch by the address. If the sticker falls off, I'm sure they can check the address themselves once they have it in-house.
 
Is this just a guess, or do you have some sort of inside info from SmartHome?

It is a feeling I got from talking with someone up the food chain when I was having my initial resistor issue from the first batch of switches. I was told point blank that they went with a resistor vendor based on price and had to change to a Panasonic resistor. Add in the threads regarding the cost of White LED's and it is an educated guess.

I keep track of my installs, so I know what's what. As far as Smarthome is concerned, I have no idea how they would handle it. I assume they can identify the switch by the address. If the sticker falls off, I'm sure they can check the address themselves once they have it in-house.
Yes, you can keep track of your installs. And SH can tell by the address the manufacture date. But do they have any way of knowing when you bought a certain switch. So yes, if you are trying to return a Rev. 2.0 switch next summer, they can tell, but what about a 2.2. They sold the 2.2's over a long time period starting IIRC in the Fall of 2005.

Also, what if you bought 10 switches in the same month in 2 different orders. On one order of 5 of them you bought the extended warranty and on the other order of 5 you didn't. Unless SH is marking those with the EW, how will they be able to tell? That is a CS nightmare.
 
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