I can tell you where I work there are still a few code writers set in their ways that refuse to flashable devices. It really hurts the business. MAYBE the same is going on at SH (I mean SL).
Get rid of Insteon and switch to Zwave ? Need help
- Thread starter MiB
- Start date
I can tell you where I work there are still a few code writers set in their ways that refuse to flashable devices. It really hurts the business. MAYBE the same is going on at SH (I mean SL).
Thanks guys, I wanted to be sure I wasn't missing out on some other linking software I wasn't aware of.
Seems like Powerhome is the only choice (besides a hardware ISY solution). For now PH doesn't support the 2412S PLM.
I want to stick with a serial PLM controller for a couple of reasons but also because I'm placing it in a plug directly at the electrical panel about 35ft away from the server rack. My electrician (good friend) suggested to place the powerline controllers right at the heart (panel). Makes perfect sense to me.
So I'll place the CM11a on one phase and the PLM on the other.
USB can't be extended more than 6ft. Serial on the other hand has no problem with a 35ft length. In fact I picked up 2 DB9 to RJ45 adapters for each end so I can use cat5 for the run from the server to the electrical panel.
Now getting back to linking software; I'm linking the switches back to the PLM so it gets and reports realtime status to the HA server if a switch is pressed manually. So I'm not sure how getting a PLC would help. Unless I get a PLC to use with PH and my laptop just for programming links including linking switches to the PLM. Can the PLC be used with PH this way ?
Anyways I installed 4 switchlincs and keypadlincs for some of the kitchen lighting today. Did a full airgap factory reset on each during the install to make sure to wipe out any X10 or other links left behind from the factory. Was a real bummerlinc to have run down to the basement each time when linking them to the PLM. You should see the size of marret I had to use for getting all the neutrals together in a 3 gang box !
An observation tho, the Switchlincs don't handle low voltage lighting very well. I hooked one up to the undercounter hallogens. Works fine at full power but once you dim it, it buzzes lounder than a Jamaican bong party ! The regular low voltage Leviton dimmer I replaced it with never buzzed at any dim level so I know it's not the lights. Hmmm one of the reasons that kept me hanging onto Insteon vs Zwave might not be a valid reason afterall.
Another observation: Insteon is somewhat toxic to X10. It's been a good 2 months where every single X10 device has fired on and off perfectly without fail. Last couple of days with Insteon in the mix at least 2 or 3 X10 devices haven't turned on or off during their macros.
BTW, the simple 5 year old CM11a is far more powerful for X10 control/command than the PLM. For some reason the PLM can't trigger certain X10 lights throughout the house but the CM11a gets em all no problem. Very strange.
I do like the ramp rates, 2 way reporting and speed for Insteon devices tho.
I'm already starting to see a trend of having to tinker and fiddle with it far more than I should have to get things working right, but I still have some time left on my 30 days so I'll continue to give it a fair shake.
Seems like Powerhome is the only choice (besides a hardware ISY solution). For now PH doesn't support the 2412S PLM.
I want to stick with a serial PLM controller for a couple of reasons but also because I'm placing it in a plug directly at the electrical panel about 35ft away from the server rack. My electrician (good friend) suggested to place the powerline controllers right at the heart (panel). Makes perfect sense to me.
So I'll place the CM11a on one phase and the PLM on the other.
USB can't be extended more than 6ft. Serial on the other hand has no problem with a 35ft length. In fact I picked up 2 DB9 to RJ45 adapters for each end so I can use cat5 for the run from the server to the electrical panel.
Now getting back to linking software; I'm linking the switches back to the PLM so it gets and reports realtime status to the HA server if a switch is pressed manually. So I'm not sure how getting a PLC would help. Unless I get a PLC to use with PH and my laptop just for programming links including linking switches to the PLM. Can the PLC be used with PH this way ?
Anyways I installed 4 switchlincs and keypadlincs for some of the kitchen lighting today. Did a full airgap factory reset on each during the install to make sure to wipe out any X10 or other links left behind from the factory. Was a real bummerlinc to have run down to the basement each time when linking them to the PLM. You should see the size of marret I had to use for getting all the neutrals together in a 3 gang box !
An observation tho, the Switchlincs don't handle low voltage lighting very well. I hooked one up to the undercounter hallogens. Works fine at full power but once you dim it, it buzzes lounder than a Jamaican bong party ! The regular low voltage Leviton dimmer I replaced it with never buzzed at any dim level so I know it's not the lights. Hmmm one of the reasons that kept me hanging onto Insteon vs Zwave might not be a valid reason afterall.
Another observation: Insteon is somewhat toxic to X10. It's been a good 2 months where every single X10 device has fired on and off perfectly without fail. Last couple of days with Insteon in the mix at least 2 or 3 X10 devices haven't turned on or off during their macros.
BTW, the simple 5 year old CM11a is far more powerful for X10 control/command than the PLM. For some reason the PLM can't trigger certain X10 lights throughout the house but the CM11a gets em all no problem. Very strange.
I do like the ramp rates, 2 way reporting and speed for Insteon devices tho.
I'm already starting to see a trend of having to tinker and fiddle with it far more than I should have to get things working right, but I still have some time left on my 30 days so I'll continue to give it a fair shake.
I remember reading a post on the PH forums that v .13 ? might be released with PLM support, but nothing as yet so I guess I could post the questions to ask him there or just shoot him an email. Would you know if you can use a PLC with PowerHome to program links between switches and a PLM ?
WayneW
Senior Member
I am guessing that this will work, but have no facts to back that up. I don't have a PLM. But I do use 2 PLCs, a serial on my Elk and a USB with PH. PH is able to link a switch back to both PLCs, so I suspect it should be able to create a link to 1 PLC for PH and 1 PLM for whatever. This is assuming that the PLM accepts link requests like other devices.
SO MIB.... would you give Insteon a try? The problems you reported have all been corrected from what I can tell and you may have just gotten old stock by accident. I ordered the same time as you and got some old stock of a few things as well. With the sale they may have been scraping the bottom of the barrel
Trevor over at SH (or SL) offered to swap the devices if you want. I bet they might even throw in the shipping.
If you dont.... I would consider UPB as it seems more stable (it like everything else has issues but not as bad it would seem) or Zwave.
I'm gving it a solid try and fair shake as I type this . One thing about me is, I'm brutally honest and tenacious about things. I intend to see if I can make the setup work and how well it performs. A lot will also hinge on how they handle my call to them tomorrow to replace the PLM that's locking up as well as the defective 10 day old switchlinc. If I'm made to jump thru hoops or get the run around, it's all going back under the 30 days return. Until then I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure I'll end up with a decent cust service rep who'll make it right.
In the meantime I've set aside a 2k budget for HA. I'll order a half dozen ViziaRF switches and USB controller to be able to compare the pros and cons between the two techs and devices.
Thanks Mike
Hmmm I'm wondering if it actually needs a driver directly for the PLM to use it this way tho with the PH/PLC combo. I mean a PLM has an address right ? Same as any other switchlinc, KPL or lamplinc. From what I understand you can use the PH/PLC to link a switchlinc to another device for example. Wouldn't the PLM just be another device ? I don't need PH to control any lighting. Just setting up and maintaining links when I need to update. But maybe I'm being too optimistic. It all just sounds too easy.
Thanks Wayne
Do you leave the USB PLC connected to PH plugged in all the time or just use to setup links ?
I had a really interesting conversation with Ted at Embedded Automation (mControl) about Insteon and Zwave. He's a really great guy to talk to. really helpful and always ready to answer questions. Anyways I'm beta testing the V2.10 B3 (free download) and really like it so far. Very intuitive and easy to setup. V2.10 integrates right into Windows Home Server console (WHS) which is great since I'm in the process of building one and it includes the interfaces for MCE client integration and well as mobile devices all for a really good price. No support for managing Insteon links, but does come with a Zwave device setup.
I get the feeling over at the HS forums that they're not really keen on continuing to support Insteon or at least the PLM given they're heavily into supporting Zwave as well as selling the hardware too. HS isn't cheap either when your done adding all the additional modules for MCE, etc
I get the feeling over at the HS forums that they're not really keen on continuing to support Insteon or at least the PLM given they're heavily into supporting Zwave as well as selling the hardware too. HS isn't cheap either when your done adding all the additional modules for MCE, etc
The guys at Homeseer seem to have done their homework on the PLM. They seem to feel there are some serious shortcomings on signal strength and lockups. They may be on to something maybe not. I can only suggest people read for themselves and decide if they believe it or not.
I will not be providing links...... people can find the information if they want to.
SO MIB.... would you give Insteon a try? The problems you reported have all been corrected from what I can tell and you may have just gotten old stock by accident. I ordered the same time as you and got some old stock of a few things as well. With the sale they may have been scraping the bottom of the barrel
Trevor over at SH (or SL) offered to swap the devices if you want. I bet they might even throw in the shipping.
If you dont.... I would consider UPB as it seems more stable (it like everything else has issues but not as bad it would seem) or Zwave.
I'm gving it a solid try and fair shake as I type this . One thing about me is, I'm brutally honest and tenacious about things. I intend to see if I can make the setup work and how well it performs. A lot will also hinge on how they handle my call to them tomorrow to replace the PLM that's locking up as well as the defective 10 day old switchlinc. If I'm made to jump thru hoops or get the run around, it's all going back under the 30 days return. Until then I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure I'll end up with a decent cust service rep who'll make it right.
In the meantime I've set aside a 2k budget for HA. I'll order a half dozen ViziaRF switches and USB controller to be able to compare the pros and cons between the two techs and devices.
If you dont suceed with the first CS call back and get another. You are a brand new customer they should bend over backwards to do the right thing to help you!
Give them an honest chance to do the right thing if you can.
HighTest
Active Member
Is there an impression that Z-wave doesn't handle low voltage well?
Leviton also has a Vizia RF low voltage dimmer available, the RZM10-1LX. Z-wave low voltage control with no buzz. See http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmD...p;section=15186 for the manufacturer details.
I was in your same shoes months ago when I went with the PLM and was using CQC. It was a pain to link all my devices and create groups on the PLM to use with CQC, and I was trying to get PowerHome to add support. CQC's ability to create PLM links has improved since then, but my CQC project is on hold anyway.
I think you could fool PowerHome by adding the PLM as an ApplianceLinc, and you MAY be able to create links - but I'm not sure if they'd work correctly.
If you give it a try, good luck and please post back your results!
No of course Vizia also handles LV.
Earlier in the thread I'd mentioned that one of the motivating factors for me to continue to use Insteon to control low voltage lighting was the significant difference in cost between the switchlincs at $40 vs the ViziaRF RZM10's at $130.
It does make me wonder tho if using a Switchlinc for LV is any different than using the Vizia RZI06-1LX incandescent switch at $65.
They would be a lot closer in price.
Thanks Mike, I'll try to get in touch with Dave at PH to see what he thinks. Who knows, maybe PLM support is just around the corner.
Would make life a lot simpler.
