Giving Up On Insteon

Don't laugh Rupp, I still think there's quite a bit of life left in ole X10. Lots of fiddling to get it reliable, but once this is done it still has the lowest cost and by far the widest multivendor support. It seems that a couple of years after all those X10 replacements have come along, none has yet emerged as a clear winner in terms of price/performance.

Still, I feel upstatemike's pain in having put in all this time and effort (over 100 devices) and ending up in frustration such as this. Up until now he was Cocoontech's unofficial Insteon proving ground.
 
I can understand Smarthome not giving a dam about someone like me who bought about 20 or so devices. But Upstatemike bought over a 100 it seems and participates in this and other forums I think.

Smarthome should contact him and try and work out some of the issues. He probably has a true real life beta test enviroment that could be a wealth of knowledge waiting to be learned by the engineers at Smarthome. That could lead to the development of better products. For his trouble they should do something for him being he is/was such a loyal customer. But it seems to me they sell the product and will exchange it if you press them. Otherwise you are on your own. Working well or not they just want to sell more. Back in February or March they kept telling me my problems with missed commands was because I needed to buy more to increase the mesh. I remember posting on a thread asking if anyone knew what would be enough. Obviously 100 may not be enough. Well I only have about 35 (8 working insteon and 2 non working) switches in my house so is this product not really for me?

Is anyone one at Smarthome listening? Can you ask Upstatemike if he wants any assistance or maybe work a deal out with him since they dont seem to work? The lack of customer service could kill Smarthome and they have a ton of money invested I bet.
 
Customer service seems to be a big difference with UPB installs. I've read time and time again where a UPB user was having problems and the company stepped in an helped out. This may be worth the cost difference alone.
 
As Digger commented, If I were someone from Smarthome reading this, I'd contact upstatemike and set him up with an assigned support contact with a phone number, and offer to assist him with troubleshooting and following up with him.
 
FrankMc said:
Hi Upstatemike

A plus if you do decide to go with UPB ...is there is an xPL Plugin for it which could be useful since you use xPL....

http://www.xpl4java.org/UPB4Java/

HTH
Frank
Thanks Frank. I am slowly getting drawn more into the xPL world because nobody else is supporting Slim Devices Squeezebox players in any meaningful way. This is definitely a plus for UPB!
 
I think that UpstateMike ditching Insteon is a sign of the beginning of the end of Insteon. I suspect that they may be having financial difficulties or something since I have heard many stories of people waiting months for their products, and even more of people complaining about performance issues. I just recently found that I cannot play games on my computer while my interface is plugged in because directX sees it as an HID. When I mentioned this to someone from smarthome, they said that they would let me know if there is any news. I'm not holding my breath.

UPB sounds interesting, but what about Zwave? Do both of these companies have computer interfaces and if so, are they both serial connections? I'm already using my serial port for my W800 and I have a very limited number of slots in my HTPC/automation rig.
 
Having a better day today. Matt from SmartHome tech support took the time to reproduce my scenario and suggested a procedure that worked. My KeypadLinc LEDs now stay in sync with the load when I use ALL ON and ALL OFF commands from the ControLinc.
 
upstatemike said:
Having a better day today. Matt from SmartHome tech support took the time to reproduce my scenario and suggested a procedure that worked. My KeypadLinc LEDs now stay in sync with the load when I use ALL ON and ALL OFF commands from the ControLinc.
could you share the solution?
 
Quixote said:
UPB sounds interesting, but what about Zwave? Do both of these companies have computer interfaces and if so, are they both serial connections? I'm already using my serial port for my W800 and I have a very limited number of slots in my HTPC/automation rig.
UPB PC interfaces are serial. However, I use a serial to USB converter when connecting it to my PC for programming - no problems.
 
Upstatemike,

Can you elaborate on what you did to solve the problem? I have some Insteon switches (including a keypadlinc) sitting here waiting for me to have time to install them but I don't want the lights to get out of sync.

Eric
 
I used to have X10 stuff all over the house and unlike a number of folks, I had really good luck with it for 8+ years. As close to 100% reliable as discernable.

Then about 8 months ago, something happened in the neighborhood and X10 stopped working completely. I did all the standard stuff (turn off all breakers and add one in at a time) and it clearly was coming from outside the house (even bought two different X10 line analyzers). Finally installed two back to back X10 noise filters (the ones you have to run the main house neutral wire through -- one wasn't enough) and while things were better, I was still at about a 30% reliability rate (i.e. 30% of commands actually got through). Had the power company out and they monitored the line for a month and showed there was a lot of noise on the line, but since it didn't impact appliances and such, there was nothing more they would do.

I did a lot of renovation on the place and tucked a lot of switches out of the way (controlled via the computer and touch screens) so I didn't have banks of switches on the walls (just ceiling lights). As such, llighting absolutely depended on reliable control. So I couldn't live with this situation.

Anyway, I tried out Insteon and UPB. I felt the Insteon stuff was pretty par for the course of SmartLinc stuff -- nifty features, disappointing implementation and/or QA. In past years, I had tried nearly every new X10 based SmartLinc product as they were released because they had features I wanted. But on average, they were less reliablethan an old standard X10 lamp modules bought from BSR 15 years ago. When they worked, they were nice. But mostly they disappointed (and customer service was virtually never a help). The Insteon modules I tried out from SmartLinc felt the same way as their X10 products and after having an eval kit for 2 weeks, I boxed it all up and shipped it back.

Then I got a UPB Eval kit (from Worthington, though most UPB suppliers have them).

Heaven on Earth! The UPB stuff is 100% reliable (at least for me), has all the features I always wanted in a switch (direct level control, two way reporting, etc). I can change definitions of the switches at any time from a PC without visiting them. Heck, I can even change the color and action of the pilot light on each switch. I have reliable feedback for my touch screens and other controllers, etc. I found that UPB switches, purchased in quantity, weren't much more expensive than the higher quality Leviton X10 switches I had installed before. And control was via an easy to understand serial protocol. The UPB stuff just feels professional (I have a mix of SimplyAutomated and HAI switches).

Short version -- I still recommend X10 for folks who want to do a few lights and who have done testing to make sure it works for them. Anything larger and I recommend UPB. I have 74 UPB wall switches and my friends have 22 (in one house) and 19 in another. No one has had a problem yet. And with iinterfaces like xPL and very good HomeVision UPB Support*, I've done all sorts of nifty things.

For example, I have a script that knows when any closet, fan or basement light is turned on and turns them off automatically after a predefined time (varies per switch). Because it's script based, I was able to put a "bypass" action in too (double tap the top of a timed switch and the script detects it and disables the timer when you're going to be working in an area for a while).

Another nifty thing is kitchen counter lights. I have 6 light switches in the kitchen -- 4 for the under counter lights (north, south, east and west), overhead and over the sink. Any switch turns on the expected load, but double tap and your turn them all on. So you have discrete control without having to run all over the kitchen when you want them all on (this didn't require scripting -- just uses the built in scene activation stuff in UPB switches). I've used the same concept in other places so switches control discrete loads, but you can still flood an area easily with a double tap (on or off).

UPB isn't perfect. Perhaps the most annoying thing is there is a noticible delay between turning a switch on (by tapping the top) and when the light actually comes on. I wish that wasn't so, though you get used ito it within a month. Also, at the time I purchased, while I could get some pretty nifty controller units (i.e. 4 buttons plus load control in a single decora opening), there were no lights on the buttons. I beleive SimplyAutomated is coming out with or has come out with that sort of thing since then. But that is about the extent of my wish list after 6 months.

Gerry

* On the HomeVision support, HV has pretty nice UPB support via a series of macros you install (you need a recent firmware chip). But if you are going UPB and have HomeVision, seriously check out the HomeVisionXL software. In addition to being a nice upgrade compared to the stock stuff (and working on many different platforms, Mac, Windows, Linux, etc), it has a UPB Setup Wizard that gets rid of the but and paste macro setup and gets UPB setup with all switch/load names imported in about 10 seconds. Will save hours or typing and avoids typos that could cause problems.
 
ericvic said:
Upstatemike,

Can you elaborate on what you did to solve the problem? I have some Insteon switches (including a keypadlinc) sitting here waiting for me to have time to install them but I don't want the lights to get out of sync.

Eric
I can now. (When I first did it I wasn't clear what actually fixed it). It appears there is a firmware bug in the KeypadLinc that relates to the order that links are created. First I unlinked everything from the KeypadLinc and the ControlLinc. Next I did a factory reset on them. Next I created the links from the ControLinc buttons 2-5 to the LEDs on the KeypadLinc small buttons only (3-6) and confirmed they worked OK. Next I linked the large load button on the KeypadLinc and the rest of the switches to the ControLinc. Finally I linked all the loads to the buttons on the KeypadLinc.

The reason this worked is because I linked the ControLinc to the small buttons on the KeypadLinc FIRST. Before, I had linked the ControLinc to the large load button on the KeypadLinc first and that prevented the subsequent links to the small buttons from working with the ContoLinc ALL ON and ALL OFF commands.

In fairness I should emphasize that this is a problem with the firmware and not the underlying Insteon technology. It should only occur if you are using a KeypadLinc and a ControLinc to control the same devices. You can avoid it by changing the order in which you create links between a ControLinc and a KeypadLinc, and it should be fixed in the next KeypadLinc firmware revision.
 
Mike,

Wow! I figured it was a firmware issue and glad you were able to get it worked out. I have been thinking about adding a screen to PowerHome which will let you optimize the order of your links (during a rebuild) and now I see a definate reason to get it done. I'll try to have this in the next beta so others will be able to take advantage of your experience.

Dave.
 
That would be great. Any way to actually include the link number of each link so when you are viewing links in a device you see where each link sits in the devices link table?

Also, you were going to let PowerHome discover any programmed X-10 address in a device. Has that been implemented yet?
 
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