Good night-recording security camera system for 2k?

[nog]

Hi all,

I first tried checking for a sticky or similar thread and couldn't find one so if it exists, please focus me in that direction.

I'm a noob to home security, so I'm not sure if I've thought of all the things I need to consider (I still don't know what I don't know) but here is what I think I need:

Connectivity: Wired (no wireless)
Format: Not sure of options or what I should desire but I'm guessing h.264 or MP4?
Functionality: Really great night time IR processing
Options: A manufacturer that offers a variety of cameras such as wide angle, remote zoom, etc. so that I can mix and match as I need

Cost: This is the least important as I want the best consumer-end cameras. Maybe 2 to 2.5k for 4-6 cameras.

Someone recommended Lorex which seems "bottom-end" and then someone recommended Axis which seems "top-end".

I don't think I need IP cameras but truth is I don't know the difference. I mostly want to try and have it such that if I need to buy another camera one day, it could be from a different mfger and still connect to the DVR or vice-versa, if that even makes sense.

Any suggestions as to mfgers to check out would be much appreciated. Also, if anyone knows of a good installer specifically for this in the Los Angeles area, that would be great as well.

Thanks!

 

[electron]

hi nog,

There are several good manufacturers out there, but one of my favorites is Mobotix, they have all sorts of lenses . Very pricey, but you really get what you pay for. Check out their site, they have multiple demos, and the specs are very impressive. Axis is also a very good manufacturer, so check them out as well. Whatever you do, stay away from the cheap cameras if night performance is truly important to you.

 

[Desert_AIP]

I've had good results withthe Vivotek cameras.
IP, PoE, 4 different configurable streams, push recording, motion detection, web based management.
I have mine recording to a NAS but they will record to any network drive, and they have onboard SD storage.
They make one specifically for night. Street price is ~$650-700.

http://www.vivotek.com/products/model.php?network_camera=ip8352

 

[Helheim]

I'm pretty happy with my Stardot SDH500VN. Pretty expensive camera though. One of the things I also liked about them living in Canada is they are good to -40 without a heater. For best performance at night you'll want to add IR, but get a separate emitter not built into the camera.

 

[nog]

Thanks guys for the feedback.

I'll also check out Stardot and Vivotek cameras. I never knew there were so many companies.

So assuming, since it's all that was mentioned, that I go with an IP camera, can I mix and match camera manufacturers as long as they are all IP cameras?

By that, I mean if I purchase or use NVR software, you can mix and match cameras as long as they are IP cameras?

 

[Helheim]

Look at the software you want to use, most of them support a lot of different cameras and even have a generic mode so you can add pretty much any camera. I use Luxriot. For my old analogue cameras I bought a Samsung SPE400 4CH H.264 Network Video Encoder.

 

[Del91574]

Unfortunately, while I'd lean towards Mobotix and Axis for an IP based camera, if you're looking into an IR or "amplified light" type camera, IP isn't really up to snuff for resolution, combined with your budget.

I'd recommend sticking to a straight analog camera, and if needed down the road, you can migrate to IP via encoders, and move from a DVR to a NVR or DVN.

Your budget for 4-6 cameras doesn't leave much wiggle room, but on a budget, I like Speco Intensifiers. Good warranty, excellent performance and ultra-high res.

 

[Helheim]

I'd rather get 2 good IP cameras for your budget than analog.

 

[nog]

Thanks guys for all the feedback.

I've tried researching things and still have tough time differentiating between what works well, what doesn't, what is compatible (wiring wise, format, etc.)

Is there a good primer or guide on the difference between analog and IP, upgrading analog to IP (if I go analog first), etc?

Since night/IR functionality is important as these are for outdoor purposes only, and if analog is better in that regards - especially if I don't want to spend 1K a camera - then maybe that is my solution.

Also, if I spend 1k on a camera, I'd be more worried that a few would be stolen if someone recognizes them as worth something...

Sure, I'd have their face on camera but if they just walked up and were not from the neighborhood, etc. then not sure if that would help me get them back

Thanks

 

[Desert_AIP]

This thread is pretty good.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/624112_CCTV_cameras_101_____Table_of_Contents_in_OP____Updated_14_Jan.html

 

[Del91574]

If you're looking at analog and a migration to IP, then infrastructure-wise, you're looking at going 1 of 2 ways. 1 being running a siamese video cable and then a category cable along with it for future use. Going this route gives you the ability to use the 18/2 for the power that a lot of these units draw that exceeds a normal POE IP camera.

Second would be to run a category cable and 18/2 (same reasons as above) and then use baluns to convert back to analog video.

If copper prices and wire runs notwithstanding, then a siamese and category cable gets all your bases covered. The rest can be done via encoders or other methods as the migration begins. You can even run IP over coax, if needed, but the more adapting you do, the more expense and potential for problems increase.

The truth of the matter is, unfortunately, for most low light and dark CCTV applications, even the high end cameras don't meet the performance of an analog camera in these circumstances, unless you really move into the ultra-high end spectrum.

 

[signal15]

Those Sharx Security outdoor bullet cams are actually quite nice. They are not HD, only 640x480 (still comparable to most analog cams), but they have an IR ring in them. I have 2 of them, and they work great. They've been outside 2 winters so far, and I've had no problems with them.

I've got a Lumenera camera that is really expensive, but sucks. I also have an outdoor OpenEye camera that is supposedly "professional" grade, but a 5-year old seems to have made the interface for it. Oh, I've got an old Axis camera also.

As far as ease of use and the least amount of problems, the Sharx cameras have won the battle here. They really are nice cameras for the price, and they are probably 1/3 the price of buying an equivalent Axis.

All IP cams suck, it's just a matter of which ones suck the least.

Also, I was at Costco the other day, and they have a Samsung 8 camera DVR system for $1000. From what I could tell, it blew away the typical cheapo cam systems. Video quality was excellent and everything seemed to be really polished instead of being cheap rebranded chinese junk.

 

[nog]

Thanks again guys for all the great advice.

Hmmm, I didn't know Costco carried higher-end consumer security cameras. I love Samsung as it is for most things although not sure what their experience is in security cameras.

The only advantage is I can buy it, test a camera at night to see what it picks up on the street (say 100 to 125 feet away and as much as 175 feet) and see if it can detect a license plate, etc. If not, at least I can return it.

Yeah, it seems for cost for performance balance, especially since these are outside which can be ruined by weather, stolen, etc. I think I'm going to try and go the analog route for better infrared performance and also cost for the reasons I mentioned.

Inside the house, if I wanted cameras, I can see investing in some nice IP ones as they are much more protected from both theft and element damage.

I'll check out the Sharx and then just try and determine what the best analog camera mfg is and go from there...

Also, as for Siamese cable, is this basically what you are referring to?

http://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-security-siamese-surveillance-CBS500B/dp/B001JKI7H8

If so, I also assume I can run cat5 as speeds are not an issue for surveilance?

And why do they use RG59 instead of newer RG6? I assume there are technical reasons that work better for surveilance?

Thanks again all

 

[znelbok]

RG6 uses a steel centre conductor with a copper skin. TG59 uses a sloid copper centre conductor.

RG6 is used for RF transmission, where the frequency is much higher. higher frequencies travel along the outside of the conductor, hence the copper coating where the signal trvels.

Because CCTV cameras transmit baseband video signals (1Vp-p etc) and frequencies are much lower, the centre of the conductor is used more than the outside, hence the full copper conductor.

Others will say that there RG6 is a full copper centre, but I am yet to see one. It can be hard to tell even when you cut it to check.

Most IP cameras are 10/100. Just run 5e and be done with it. The cost is not that much more over cat5. If you have cat6 lying around then use it for future proofing.

Mick

 

[Del91574]

RG6 uses a steel centre conductor with a copper skin. TG59 uses a sloid copper centre conductor.
RG6 is used for RF transmission, where the frequency is much higher. higher frequencies travel along the outside of the conductor, hence the copper coating where the signal trvels.
Because CCTV cameras transmit baseband video signals (1Vp-p etc) and frequencies are much lower, the centre of the conductor is used more than the outside, hence the full copper conductor.
Others will say that there RG6 is a full copper centre, but I am yet to see one. It can be hard to tell even when you cut it to check.
Most IP cameras are 10/100. Just run 5e and be done with it. The cost is not that much more over cat5. If you have cat6 lying around then use it for future proofing.
Mick

Not true regarding the conductor type and construction.

Cheap RG6 is always a copper clad steel, same goes with cheap RG59. Even the braid on cheap cable is steel or aluminum and not copper. It's always a you get what you pay for, and can usually be discerned when the cable is cut and especially if you try to flatten a conductor. RG 6 is an 18 AWG center conductor, and if you look at the center after cutting, you can always see the "cladding" vs a solid conductor.

I would look at the vendor and distribution network you buy cable from if you commonly get copper clad steel vs solid copper center conductors and braid.

Usually RG 6 is used in cameras when distance is involved, to help with the 1000' maximum limitation.