HA: Is there really minimal "new" in last 7 years?

[drvnbysound]

The elk is the harshest possible way to manage lighting. I used to use it, but moved the management to cqc as I got sick of remembering what device was A05 vs B09/etc.

Voice is like wireless networking vs wired, or laptops vs desktops. You don't think it's that valuable when you're just using the original technology, but once you start you'll wonder why it took you so long to change. An NFC chip puts my phone into car mode, Tasker does TTS on inbound SMS, and I speak the replies. I currently have some auto voice for HA but not much due to language restrictions. I have to Trigger one task, wait, then trigger another. Pulling up to the house I'd love to say "OK Google, disarm security, unlock the door, and turn on the outside lights".

 
I haven't had any issues managing lighting via Elk. Sure, it's not the best interface, but I don't have to remember what A05 is - I've entered descriptions for all of my lighting, so when I want to control the Front Flood Lights, that's what I select in ElkRP - Front Flood Lights.
 
I bought a CQC license - which is why it's listed to the left ( <---- ) in my HA technology listing, but I've literally NEVER installed it. I haven't found anything that I couldn't yet do via Elk, or that I would want done differently. I don't have HTPCs at any of my TVs or any other method to really utilize the CQC interface other than tablet - in which case I just launch eKeypad.
 
I'm not on the road all that much; approximately 50min each day (commute) and I either wait till I get into the office or home, or just check messages at the next red light. Not a big deal to me.
 
Regarding the coming home part, we had a whole other thread about that. I have a friend who is using a WiFi device in his vehicle; once his home network detects that the vehicle has joined the network (within range) it opens the garage door (via Elk) and could obviously do those other things if he wanted to add them to the rule.

 

[ano]

I haven't had any issues managing lighting via Elk. Sure, it's not the best interface, but I don't have to remember what A05 is - I've entered descriptions for all of my lighting, so when I want to control the Front Flood Lights, that's what I select in ElkRP - Front Flood Lights.
 
I bought a CQC license - which is why it's listed to the left ( <---- ) in my HA technology listing, but I've literally NEVER installed it. I haven't found anything that I couldn't yet do via Elk, or that I would want done differently. I don't have HTPCs at any of my TVs or any other method to really utilize the CQC interface other than tablet - in which case I just launch eKeypad.
 
I'm not on the road all that much; approximately 50min each day (commute) and I either wait till I get into the office or home, or just check messages at the next red light. Not a big deal to me.
 
Regarding the coming home part, we had a whole other thread about that. I have a friend who is using a WiFi device in his vehicle; once his home network detects that the vehicle has joined the network (within range) it opens the garage door (via Elk) and could obviously do those other things if he wanted to add them to the rule.

I'm in the same boat. I use HAI/Leviton and it does most of what i need. Add HAIku and I can control everything from an iPad or phone, and with iBeacons my garage door or alarm can be activated using location. I used CQC for many years, but don't anymore.  What has changed in the last 7 years is some many more third party HW and SW connect to HAI or ELK, that much of the need for a program like CQC disappears. I control door locks, lights, pumps, shades, drapes, and whole house audio with just the controller.  i used to drive LED signs with CQC, but i found a company that makes a simple board that can drive a LED sign with simple ASCII commands, and the HAI can do that so my final need for CQC evaporated.

 

[IVB]

Why would you want to say that? You can use geofencing and a rule to do all of this and more, like individual preferences for different people.
 
On the original post, I see the most changes in HA happening in the UI area. Tablets, phones, watches etc. I got an iWatch recently, the Space app for it is reportedly coming soon, so using VR will be a lot easier, but even now I can issue commands to my system from the watch using siri.

 
Actually, geofencing (or WiFi near as per DrvnBySound) is no better than the current VR state which is a fixed construct and response. Neither I nor my family have fixed preferences, rather its variable based on whats going on. I absolutely do NOT want geofencing or WiFi near as my house is in a semi-urban neighborhood 15' from the street, and I don't want it triggering if I drive by. Or if I drive 150 feet in one direction, realize that major street is jammed so I turn around and go the other major street 400 feet the other way. Proximity != static rules.
 
With natural language, I could just say what I want the system to do and have multiple commands trigger at once. No need for a static rule that must be pre-codified.
 

I certainly see your point, but i think the difference between networking and home automation is that home automation still really hasn't gone mainstream. We talk about ELK and HAI/Leviton. Both of those controllers are many years old, but do you see those companies or others rushing to update them?  Leviton had to release a $150 board just so their controller could send an email. That tell you the market just isn't there. The sad fact is, until there is money to be made in home automation, your not going to see much money invested in home automation. We here can jump up and down all we want and complain, but that doesn't change the business case.
 
Look back at your list of wants, and ask yourself, how many others want that as well, and more importantly, how many are willing to pay for them?  If you think there are enough people to cover the development costs, then you are more brave than most companies out there, and you should start a business to fill the void.

 
Chicken & Egg I suppose. There was no money to be made in wireless networking, until there was.  I'm just surprised there hasn't been a serious attempt at a consortium by the people who've already invested in this space to grow the market.  Not talking a common language is holding back growth, and me starting a new business to tackle this is just additional fragmentation. The market doesn't need another player, it needs the existing players to play nice.
 
I don't even care if its like SQL vs P-SQL vs (whatever oracle SQL is called).  Just because you support an industry wide format doesn't mean you can't extend it to create competitive advantage, but you can't come up with a newer better way of creating structured queries, calling it "Joes language", and expect people to rush in and learn it.

 

[IVB]

well, i don't want this to get into "do it via Elk or do it via CQC" thread because thats a personal preference. (and you guys chose wrong (i'm kidding i'm kidding, unless i'm not)
 
But regardless of Elk or CQC or HomeSeer or whatever, it is still the same amount of work to install an HA system now as it was 7 years ago. Which is probably why the market has flatlined. 

 

[jkmonroe]

Re: What I would want to see? Interoperability, or at least the promise of it. To me, 
 
What would I want to see? Interoperability, or at least some hint of it.  JKMonroe will attest to the lack of it within zWave.  How about a zWave/Zigbee/UPB bridge of some sort that doesn't require excessive programming by the end user?  It still seems far too difficult to implement an HA system.
...
What I find depressing is that in 7 years, vendors still haven't realized that they can move more product if they voluntarily adopt a standard.  Even better, make it a publish/subscribe type system.  Devices to be controlled could publish their message to the network, devices to do controlling could subscribe to those messages. 
 
The potential market for those who want automated egg monitoring can be measured on one hand. Two hands if you look world wide.  But if you knew you could pop in a new (HVAC, stereo, sonos, roku, doorbell, whatever), control it with your (whatever controller concept you want; sw based, cortana type, even AMX/C4 tie-in), you'd see a flood of HA devices.
...

 
I think we do see interoperability, just not in the way that everyone predicted as a general standard.  This is what I call the Internet of Things -- as long as connected devices provide open APIs, then other connected devices can talk to them.  This is how my Nest can talk to my Hue Bridge and my Dropcam and my smart lock.  Hell, even the Bose SoundTouch (Sonos competitor) has an open API.
 
As long as the devices remain open to third parties, we will see more and more 'things' coming out.  The trick to all of this is gathering product that is useful to you and your home *and* is supported by your choice of automation product.  And at the end of the road, you *can* drop new toys into your system without fear of compatibility or of breaking things.  I can go use my Amazon Echo to control my lights, and it's perfectly represented in CQC, any of the Hue Apps, the Logitech Hub, etc ...
 
You remember me always wailing about simplicity and complexity?  The above is a perfect example of how simplicity lies on the other side of complexity.  It just took me nearly 10 years to get there.   :rockon:
 
FYI, f@#$ z-wave.  worst.standard.ever.  seriously.

 

[LarrylLix]

FYI, f@#$ z-wave. worst.standard.ever. seriously.

Yup. a lot of the ISY 994i people have installed the Zwave and some have come over to Insteon and report that constantly. Slow, short ranged, and mostly just doesn't report status change at all.
 
Every body thinks they can do better starting from scratch instead of supporting what we already have.
 
Then along comes Reagan's Intellectual Patent technology clamp and now nobody can develop somebody else's system.

 

[pete_c]

@IVB
 
Are you there yet? 
 
Did you finish that electrical subpanel crawling under your home and running all those wires yet?
 
Is that a double or single Windsor knot on your tie?

 

[drvnbysound]

My Zwave works without issues and reports status instantly

 

[Dogman]

drvnbysound   How many nodes do you have reporting status and what brand are you using Leviton or Cooper?

 

[drvnbysound]

~10 of 25 reporting status right now. I'm slowly working on converting them all... Leviton.

 

[pete_c]

HA: Is there really minimal "new" in last 7 years?

 
Personally technology has improved and is better and faster. (well that is over the last 50 years)
 
It really depends on what is considered automation and relates to that knowledgebase of the individual.  
 
Using a particular OS, Software or telephone or tablet personally isn't what makes automation better.
 
(IE: telling folks on Facebook or tweeting about your last bowel movement doesn't really advance automation)
 
I think some day soon we will have an AI entity that will assume the responsibilities of that automated home. 
 
Not yet though.
 
That AI though will be in my home where I can shut it off when I get bored with it. (hopefully).
 

But other than that, I find it odd that I don't see any material changes in technology or interoperability between HA devices. I was hoping for natural language VR by now but its still needs pretty structured commands. I had high hopes for IFTTT but it also underimpresses. 
 
And, it looks to me like the HA industry is still arguing amongst the big players and no single technology has emerged as dominant vendor.

 
It is just a race right now with no single player offering a single technology that works.  (it is human nature).
 
Personally and related to the internet I take what I want and prefer to utilize it as a source of information but not as a source of my home automation.   That is my personal take on it.  That said it is cheap to do and does provide automation for the masses.
 
I do not consider VR/TTS automation (played with it in the 1980's and then too there was a "gee whiz" thing about it). 
 
When VR/TTS is an AI entity in my home then I will probably utilize it.
 
Today it's still at a novelty toy level as folks are only mostly mesmerized/tethered/sleep with their tiny telephones.

 

[zenix]

FYI, f@#$ z-wave. worst.standard.ever. seriously.

Yup. a lot of the ISY 994i people have installed the Zwave and some have come over to Insteon and report that constantly. Slow, short ranged, and mostly just doesn't report status change at all.

 
What about ZigBee? Is that also a terrible standard or somewhat better than z-wave?
 
Regarding INSTEON, it felt like such a huge step down. No scene statuses, really? No realtime updates even for devices? WTF.

 

[pete_c]

Personally here never liked whole bucket (all Z-Wave, Zigbee, Insteon) assumptions of one technology solves all of my personal automation needs.
 
I do play with the stuff (mostly cuz its a hobby) but personally use only what works for the automation I care about in this home.  That is me though.

 

[jkmonroe]

What about ZigBee? Is that also a terrible standard or somewhat better than z-wave?
 
Regarding INSTEON, it felt like such a huge step down. No scene statuses, really? No realtime updates even for devices? WTF.

 
I love Zigbee.  It works as expected, and it has field upgradeable firmware.
 
I would love to find a universal, connected, Zigbee bridge - something that can connect the plethora of Zigbee devices with an open API.

 

[pete_c]

Yeah here playing with a few Securifi devices (hubs-consoles) and just recently upgraded one Zigbee switch. 
 
These wireless hub consoles do talk to Zigbee, Z-Wave, X-10 (with a serial cable) and networked automation devices.
 
It was slow to upgrade but it now measures electricity flow which is a nice little side benefit of a home upgradable automation switch.
 
I wish I could do that with my UPB switches (I do think though with the right tools they are field upgradable).