HA Software Options

[aslamma]

I was just about to purchase HomeSeer, but there are some things about that I am not too happy about. It seems a little clunky and buggy. It's still OK, but before I take the plunge, are there better options out there? Cost is not really an issue. I do specifically want iPhone support so that narrows the list. I was thinking about looking into CQC, but it is quite a challenge to get started in that one and it totally confuses me.

I am looking for the "best" solution for iphone support. I want to do lighting, IR, thermostat, and camera control. I am willing to buy new hardware if need be. Cost is not as much of an issue, I just want something really solid and stable.

 

[ano]

I was just about to purchase HomeSeer, but there are some things about that I am not too happy about. It seems a little clunky and buggy. It's still OK, but before I take the plunge, are there better options out there? Cost is not really an issue. I do specifically want iPhone support so that narrows the list. I was thinking about looking into CQC, but it is quite a challenge to get started in that one and it totally confuses me.

I am looking for the "best" solution for iphone support. I want to do lighting, IR, thermostat, and camera control. I am willing to buy new hardware if need be. Cost is not as much of an issue, I just want something really solid and stable.

CQC is solid and stable and supports the iPhone with their client. I used to use HomeSeer, but switched, because like you say, it was buggy and never worked like it should. CQC is not the simplest software to use, but after you get the hang of it, its pretty flexible and quite stable.

 

[aslamma]

Thanks for the input. I already have everything setup and ready to go on HomeSeer, so I am "this close" to being complete. But I am really frustrated with the iPhone client and how it crashes and won't reconnect. I can say with certainty that this is in part due to the iPhone itself (after many studies and now confirmed from other HS users). But I don't see HS doing much about it and their iPhone client has a lot to be desired. In general, I really do like HS a lot...but this enough to make me look harder.

I looked at CQC before, but don't have all the compatible hardware I need. I will need to buy a lot of hardware, but at this point I am ready to go for it. In general, do the CQC guys seem pretty happy with it? Would most people consider it to be a better solution than HomeSeer? What concerns me is that they don't even write their own iphone client and had to rely on someone else to do it. It seems like they have limited resources and I am concerned about their long term prospects (i.e. Dean gives up on the project).

 

[broconne]

Thanks for the input. I already have everything setup and ready to go on HomeSeer, so I am "this close" to being complete. But I am really frustrated with the iPhone client and how it crashes and won't reconnect. I can say with certainty that this is in part due to the iPhone itself (after many studies and now confirmed from other HS users). But I don't see HS doing much about it and their iPhone client has a lot to be desired. In general, I really do like HS a lot...but this enough to make me look harder.

I looked at CQC before, but don't have all the compatible hardware I need. I will need to buy a lot of hardware, but at this point I am ready to go for it. In general, do the CQC guys seem pretty happy with it? Would most people consider it to be a better solution than HomeSeer? What concerns me is that they don't even write their own iphone client and had to rely on someone else to do it. It seems like they have limited resources and I am concerned about their long term prospects (i.e. Dean gives up on the project).

I don't think it is an issue that they did not write their own client. They instead wrote a server side protocol so that many client types could connect, which is a much more open approach. It allowed vidabox, iPhone, and probably soon an android client. I would select an open protocol for future proofing over a delivered iPhone application.

That being said, I am still trying to figure out which solution is write for me. J9AE or CQC.. But I never really considered HS.

 

[Automation]

Wow, I'm surprised to hear this but I too am a new user. This is one of the easiest parts of HomeSeer to setup and use in my opinion. Out of the box it was simple to setup and expand on. The iPhone/iTouch client is my most used HomeSeer plugins and I haven't had any issues with it all. I've got 2 iPod touches permanently mounted and they stay connected for days on end. I'm using them in place a a multi-gang wall switch configuration and it works great. If you expect your iPhone to stay connected when on battery power , it isn't going to happen. Apple somehow puts these devices to sleep and they loose their Wifi connection. My wifes favorite app is the garage door opener for here iPhone. One of ours broke so within 20 minutes I had her a garage door opening screen. The HSTouch is also the easiest of all of the touch screen interface packages I've used to date and a ton easier than HomeSeer's main competitor in the touch screen layout, Main Lobby.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I believe both HomeSeer and CQC have free 30 day trials. You need to drive both and kick the tires a bit.

As far as easier to use, I think a lot depends on the person's background and capability. For instance, if you once used and are comfortable/familiar with Microsoft's Visual Basic environment, HomeSeer will probably be easier for you. Others feel like the CQC interface clicks with them better... :rofl:

Both are seasoned programs and should have all the bugs worked out on their proven/released versions.

 

[pete_c]

Personally been playing with HA powerline specifically X10 since about 1978.

I still have a very old MS Windows 3.1 application which allowed X10 events and control sitting around somewhere.

I have "evolved" in my HA use somewhat much since the 70's-90's. Somewhere 'round the late 90's went to using HS using initial version of it.

Its really up to you relating to what you want and feel comfortable with.

I guess at my age now and because I have used HS now for quite a few years I am very comfortable with it, what it does and what its capable of doing.

Personally I am not a MAC nor an IPhone person. I've also never been an IPOD person but have a couple around that have been given to me. IE: bought video glasses to plug into it so that I could watch movies while flying - worked fine for me with the IPOD - like the size and portability.

Think I played with a Lisa years ago (then later first MAC). Historically my first smartphone was based on the Palm OS and it worked well for me. IE: getting secure enterprise corporate email to a palm phone was one of my first projects relating to "smart phones" in the late 1990's. Sometime around the early 2000's I switched over to MS Mobile. I also was put into positions where I was not in this country and needed to tether my phone with legacy GPRS - worked fine but slow years ago. At the time I was able to control my HA via my MSMobile phone just fine. I've also felt comfortable with modifying the OS on my phone and only bricking (and bringing it back to life) a few times.

 

[sic0048]

I'm a very happy CQC user. If people consider it too hard to get their mind around, it is because the software is just so flexible. I will say that the action logic that drives everything has been designed to be almost 100% point and click. It makes setting things up much easier than one might think. Sure there is a learning curve to it, but if I can do it, then anyone can

 

[aslamma]

HomeSeer was very easy for me to figure out. I did it all just by intuition and was up in running in no time. I have yet to try CQC though so I will try that next. I couldn't even get the through install without being a bit confused though, haha.

Automation, what do you know about this issue with running on battery power? It took me a week of messing around with routers, etc. to come this conclusion. When externally powered, HStouch works pretty decent (although not perfect). But on battery power, its pretty worthless. It disconnects even when screen lock is set to never, and it never reconnects. This is some kind of Apple issue that is not handled well by HS. So I suppose this will mean that CQC will have the same issue? If so, I guess that makes the point mostly moot.

Just to be clear, CQC does have its own touchscreen interface right? Or do you need something like mainlobby to do that part?

 

[Steve]

I tried pretty much all available HA apps in 2005 and chose CQC. And that was Version 1.x. HS is actually a great product and it does alot. If you were planning on doing ALL of your HA strictly with software and not using any Security/HA panel like the Elk or HAI then I think I would give HS more consideration because it seems to already support almost everything. But if you have a panel and you are looking to do complementary and 'higher-end' functions then CQC is a better product IMHO. CQC was built around the whole touchscreen paradigm where it is a recent afterthought in HS. All apps will require a learning curve, its just a matter of what you kind of sync with. CQC was actually the most intuitive for me. And don't be fooled, pretty much all of these software companies are very small, including HS. Of all of them CQC definitely is moving the fastest. Dean is always adding new features and is always on top of bugfixes. HS feels alot more static. Because of their codebase they have to be careful in adding core features and do alot of testing. With CQC it is alot more modular and the codebase much more stable which leads to a very stable pro grade system. The iPhone client works well and the developer seems pretty committed to improving it. But don't be fooled, its not perfect either and some of that is due to Apple. But CQS works closely with their 3rd party developers and enhances the core product where it can to work better. The RIVA protocol is still fairly new so you can expect some improvements still to come.

BSR is right about kicking the tires and see what you feel good about but sometimes unless you are dedicated full time to it, 30 days may not be enough to get a good idea on all of them. If you wanted to post some specific questions of what you may be wanting to do, maybe we can help you a little more decide what may work or may not.

And as much as I like CQC, I think J9AE deserves a mention. John was a former CQC user and wanted things a little different. One of those things was to better follow Windows best practices in GUI design, which is where alot of the confusion in CQC comes in. John has done a great job with the product and it is still in beta. If it cost substantially less than CQC it may be a very good solution, but if it turns out to be near the cost of CQC then CQC would get the nod from me because it has a much longer track record. The codebase of J9AE would make me a little hesitant, just like in HS. I'm sure its great, but CQCs core is probably the tightest, most mature and most stable of the bunch and it is network distributed and takes very little resources.

 

[beelzerob]

Just to be clear, CQC does have its own touchscreen interface right? Or do you need something like mainlobby to do that part?

Well, with CQC you can create your own touchscreen interface, if that's what you mean (or have someone else do it for you). A part of the openness of CQC, as much as it is also perhaps a bit daunting to just jump in.

The tutorial videos on CQC would probably help you quite a bit. He goes through the very basic stuff, and he does so with a "device simulator" that is a part of CQC, so you can jump right in and learn about actions and triggers and interfaces without having to buy any hardware.

I'm very very pleased with CQC, but I have never tried anything else. I probably don't demand as much from my system as most do...but I've never found CQC to be lacking in a capability.

 

[ano]

I have used both HomeSeer and CQC extensively, each for at least two years. HomeSeer is probably more feature-rich, certainly easier to use, and probably wider in hardware support. That's its good and its bad. Because it is so extensive, with many of its plug-ins coming from developers who are long-gone, it always seemed to be that it was in a state of dis-repair. Plugins not working fully, and even the main code very buggy. The developers were very overwhelmed, and it seems in most cases, you just complain about bugs, and wait, wait, wait, maybe years until they get fixed.

CQC is a different beast. Much more streamlined and designed from a UI perspective first and foremost. I don't think I've ever had the core CQC software crash, but in return CQC is much less feature-rich than HomeSeer, although with "drivers" its easy to add features. When a HomeSeer "plug-in" maker leaves you with a buggy plug-in, your basically screwed. When a CQC "driver" is buggy or doesn't have the features you need, you can modify the code yourself. Almost all the code in drivers is visible and modifyable, with a few exceptions.

On HomeSeer, when the Betabrite "plug-in" didn't work, all I could do is hope the author was still around and would fix the bugs for me or add new features. When the same happened to me on CQC, I edited the driver and added the extra features I needed. In about a week I had all the tweaks running perfectly.

The BIG negatives of CQC is that it doesn't really have a web interface, it has no phone features, and instead of using Visual Basic to add functionality, you use this CQC created language called CML which is similar to C++.

They are pretty different programs, but if stability is the most important characteristic to you, CQC is the better of the two.

 

[123]

If I were making the decision, ano's hands-on experience with both applications would be an important factor.

I agree with ano; the ability to modify a driver's source-code is an important feature. You can add functionality to a driver or fix a bug regardless of its author's availability.

Having an interactive development environment (IDE) is also important. For example, in my HA app, I can change one line of code in a driver and observe the result immediately. There is no need to switch applications, load the modified driver, go through a compile/build cycle, or any other intermediate step. When developing a driver, this degree of interactivity and immediacy is an invaluable time-saver.

"I've met C++ and you sir (CML) are no C++!"

CML strikes me as being far more like ADA than C++.

 

[aslamma]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3UkJ-jr81U

That is a vide of the functions I would like to normally use. This was done in HSTouch and I am guessing I could migrate it over to CQC pretty easily? I would guess that CQC could easily handle this and I am willing to change hardware if need be.

I don't quite get the use of a panel like Elk or HAI. I run everything from the computer. Does the panel add extra stability in case the computer goes down? For example, lighting etc can still work even though iTunes would not.

 

[pete_c]

Personally I liked the HA technology and was more in tune being able to "do as much" as I could with one box without really getting into the underlying code. Historically mostly because of my day job.

Touch screen/HA technology has evolved much in the last 15 or so years and that in itself is one piece of your current endeavor. An example is to look at the new GPS devices for sale today. Years ago I spent a few hundred dollars on a GPS device that just provided me with a very primitive LCD display with rudimentary graphics and mostly text. HS has continued to evolve with the technology and users of said technology.

For the DYI person using HA whom didn't want to purchased a propietary TS system and spend hundreds of dollars on one HS offered the ability to utilize an interface that worked and evolved: IE: HS Touchscreen plugin and Mainlobby a little bit ahead of its time because it could be done at a reasonable cost. I purchased Main Lobby and played with creating some touchscreens and it was fun but I'm really not an artist so decided to keeping it simple somewhat - so used Maestro instead....for my sprinkler system touchscreen the interface is web based today and it shows and does all I want it to do right now....no more no less. With the first gen smartphone I had (AKA Palm) I was able to access HS from the web - it did all I wanted at the time.

Personally I have had not too many issues relating to stability and if I do its typically that I kind of push the envelope a bit by:

- adding more serial connectivity (18 serial connections plus a number of USB connections, multiple DB's running, etc.)
- "testing" new plugins with developers of said plugins
- adding more events and devices (I am in the hundreds range - not thousands range though)

I do get upset when the support for a HS plugin is nil or when the writer of said plugin has moved on.

IE: I still use HW that no longer can be purchased (IE: AB8SS) with a very old plugin that does fine or RFID (CheaperRFID) that still works well enough for me (have tags in 4 vehicles still working after XX years). I recently purchased a basic no frills Russound setup with KPL keypads and want it work with HS and have noticed that the plugin hasn't been updated in years - BUT I'm in no hurry to implement yet as I am playing with UPB and Z-Wave too right now. In my "old" age have become more patient and stress less about hobbies than I used to.

To date while running HS I have not had one BSOD with my MS 2003 standard server. Up until the recent update to HSPro I stayed at the same release of HS for over 3 years. HW wise have had failures. IE: The day before I went on vacation years ago and was using HS 1.X my CPU fan went out (500Mhz AMD legacy free box) and I scrambled a bit to install another one. A lighting strike in the early 90's taking out my home network. While I was on vacation last year right after Christmas my HS MB went out (due to bad caps) - lost the box until I returned from vacation.

In FL installed an Omni Pro II panel. Taking my time right now and HA in FL will evolve. Right now it'll be doing some very basic "stuff". All on one wall in one closet with two cans. A server will be coming sometime in the near future.

In the end though of your decision process its really what you feel more comfortable with after you play some, how much you want to play and how much granularities you don't want to play with and what you get for your money.