HAI Omnipro2 battery trouble

[pete_c]

Think I mentioned earlier that a Homeseer HAI Omni Pro 2 user had a similar issue with a new battery not showing a charge or the numbers going up.
 
Initially I suggested that the charging circuit might be bad and to send it to Leviton for repair.
 
This came about after an old battery that wasn't replaced in a while such that it sat discharged for a few months (or years?).
 
That said he removed the battery for about a week or so. 
 
Then just connected it and looked at it the next day with PC Access and all was fine.
 
He did try disconnecting battery for a day or two and that didn't work.  Only the disconnection of a week or more worked.
 
Here I have swapped batteries between my expansion board and main board for checking charging occasionally.

 

[cestor]

I may give that a try- otherwise I have no idea how it will be possible to send the board back as I don't have a replacement one to put in temporarily (and I don't live in the US either!) 

 

[RAL]

yes, the battery has been in for over a day and still only reading 155. 

 
Ok, the 155 means the OP2 thinks the battery is low.  But I'm asking what the voltage actually is when measured at the battery with a multimeter.  If it really is below 12V and isn't increasing over time, that's a sign of a problem. 
 
Pete's example of disconnecting the battery for a week and then trying again is interesting.  What that would work is hard to explain.

 

[pete_c]

Yup; the person I mentioned had been living in the UK for the last 8 years and remote monitoring his stuff in FL.
 
Where are you located Cestor?
 
Removing the panel though is easy as just pulling up all of the terminals and sliding the panel out from underneath the terminals; well too removing the expander boards if you are using any.  Takes about 15 minutes.  That said though if you are dependent on the panel then its a PITA.  You can do a rush repair and turn about time if you want.
 
I am only the messenger here relating to what the OmniPro2 user did as I suggested for him to send the panel in for repair.
 
Guessing maybe that it was a capacitor and it keeping or not keeping a charge?
 
I have never heard of this fixing an issue with the battery charging stuff. 
 
Here a few months back I did have a bulging / got hot battery that I replaced on the sub panel a few months back.   It came to a full charge in a day or two.  My fault basically for keeping a bad / old battery on a shelf here; then trying to use it.

 

[cestor]

voltage on the new battery is only reading at 12.5v which is the same as when I put it in 

 

[mikefamig]

Can you disconnect the battery and charge it fully with a separate battery charger? Then install the battery with a full charge and see how the omni reacts. This would separate the function of the battery charger on the omni from the voltage detection circuit on the omni. If it is happy with the new fully charged battery but still fails to maintain the battery over time then you have at least isolated the problem to the charging circuit.
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

Also if you do attempt to charge your battery with an off-line charger and the battery will not maintain ~ 13 volts then the battery is at fault. And if the battery does take and hold a good charge and the omni accepts it as charged it will buy you some time. A fully charged battery may last weeks just sitting there attached to the omni.
 
Mike.

 

[dementeddigital]

I'd disconnect the battery and power off the Omni Pro for a few minutes.  This way, if the polyfuses have tripped, it will give them time to cool down and reset.
 
Then you can bring up the system again, following the procedure in the manual:
1. check your connections
2. disconnect the sounders
3. keep the positive of the battery disconnected
4. plug in the transformer (AC LED should light, etc.)
5. unplug the transformer again and then plug in the battery - the system should not start
6. plug in the transformer - the system should start
7. unplug the transformer - the system should keep running on the battery
8. plug in the transformer again
 
If the system powers off during step 7, then I would disconnect all wiring and try again.  If it still happens, I'd look on the Omni's board for the polyfuse and check it, along with the battery wires and crimped connectors.
 
Where do you live Cestor?

 

[cestor]

I tried the sequence in the manual with no success. I don't know what the polyfuse is, so can you please advise ?
I live in Israel (I brought the board out here) so it's not easy to just send it back for servicing. 

 

[dementeddigital]

What happens at step 7?  Does the system stay running or does it crash?

 

[pete_c]

I am posting the resolution of the battery problem with another OP2 user from a few months back. (post #19 above)
 
I had suggested at the time that he send his OP2 panel for repair as it seemed that it never charged up the battery.
 
He did not instead he ...
 
I disconnected the battery about a week ago and left it. Today when I reconnected, all became lovely. Now I'll get back to where I left off with it, writing a text alert for low battery. Thanks in arrears for all the help.
 
Everything is fine now with his OP2 panel.  Values seen via PCA are normal now.

 

[dementeddigital]

He did not instead he ...
 
I disconnected the battery about a week ago and left it. Today when I reconnected, all became lovely. Now I'll get back to where I left off with it, writing a text alert for low battery. Thanks in arrears for all the help.

 
That's interesting, for sure.  It's worth a try.
 
Presumably, there are two electronic power "paths" into the Omni Pro - the transformer input and the battery.  The power up sequence tests both of them in a reasonable way.
 
Since the system runs, it's apparent that the transformer input is working.  To know if the battery power input is working, it would be useful to know if the Omni Pro crashes on power up step 7.  If it crashes, it's probably safe to assume that there is a hardware problem on the board, and it should be repaired.  If it doesn't crash, there may still be a problem with the hardware (ADC input to the microcontroller, charging circuit, etc.), or it could be some software issue.
 
If it were my Omni Pro, I'd do this:
1. Disconnect all of the site wiring on the terminal block with the transformer input and unplug the other terminal blocks from the Omni and then run the power up sequence. 
2. If it doesn't crash on step 7 but still looks like the battery is bad, I'd reset everything to factory defaults in PC Access and then test again. 
3. If it is still bad, I'd try leaving it connected for a long time (what pete_c said). 
4. If it is still bad, then I'd consider it a hardware failure and look to repair it.
 
If it does end up looking like a hardware issue and you are comfortable with electronics, you can test connectivity from the battery wires onto the board and then into the circuit a little bit.  If I had to guess at potential causes without knowing any more about the issue, I'd guess it to be something in the protection circuit on the battery input.  If so, it might be repairable by the nearest guy with a soldering iron and a meter.
 
It might also be worth a phone call to HAI/Leviton.  Maybe they have an authorized repair center closer to you than here in the US.  Or maybe they have a distribution partner in Israel who would be willing to swap out your board for a new one and handle the return.  I haven't dealt with the HAI folks much, but when I have I found them to be really helpful.

 

[cestor]

What happens at step 7?  Does the system stay running or does it crash?

It doesn't crash but the battery still shows as bad. Tried the disconnecting for a long time, with no success :-(

 

[pete_c]

7. unplug the transformer - the system should keep running on the battery
 
Did the system keep running?
 
That is good if it did.
 
PCA will show a bad battery if there is no battery connected.
 
How long did you leave the battery unplugged?
 
In the above HAI peer example thinking HAI peer left new battery unplugged for over a week. (8 days?)
 
Temporarily use a UPS on the 25VAC HAI power supply while keeping the battery disconnected if you want.
 
Here is a big picture of the OP2 board.  Thinking the polyfuse is on the left side of the board.
 
That said never played with them.  dementeddigital might have more insight where exactly the fuses are.
 

 

[dementeddigital]

Cestor,
 
If the system kept running, then the polyfuse is likely OK. 
 
I'm not 100% sure where the engineers at HAI put the polyfuse in the circuit, but it's highly likely that it's right at the battery input.  Pete_c is right - the battery input is on the left side, and (from the photos) I think that the polyfuse is the yellow-orange device standing up next to the battery wires.  I have used the surface mount ones on a few designs, and they don't carry as much current as the through-hole devices.  Because of that, I would assume that HAI used a through-hole device, and that looks to be the likely component. 
 
Essentially, these devices change to a "high resistance" state when they heat up from too much current flow.  When they cool down, they return to a conducting state.
 
In any case, it sounds like yours is OK.  That's good.
 
Next two steps:
 
1.  Let's remove all possibility of an external problem by disconnecting as much site wiring as possible.  I think that the terminal blocks on the Omni Pro unplug from the board.  You can unplug all of them except the one with the power transformer connections.  I'd manually disconnect everything else from that one.  The only wires going to your board should be for the power transformer, battery, and a single connection for communications with either PC Access or a single console.  Try connecting the battery again and see if it reads OK.  If not then:
 
2. Reset the board to default settings and try again while everything is disconnected.
 
-DD