Hardwired Lighting System Using Cat5

[beelzerob]

You will not need both a lighting controller and an M1 Lighting interface with ALC. They are combined into the same product. As for CQC I have little to share.
Good luck

TS

I can share a little about CQC. In the next couple weeks, I should be getting my OnQ lighting hardware (controller, RS232 interface, switches, etc), and as soon as I do, I'll start into writing a driver for it (I already have been looking over the protocol). So, I have hopes that within the next month, I'll have a basic CQC driver available to the public....house building insanity, not-withstanding. When I'm done, then it means you can use CQC to control the lighting, and won't need an Elk to do so.

 

[AceCannon]

I've had concerns about OnQ's products because the scene switches don't seem to appear as polished as some other solutions. Anyone heard yet about possible plans to have backlit scene switches?

 

[AceCannon]

This is a LAST RESORT tool to use - AVOID THIS AT ALL COSTS! The place where mixing high and low voltage in the same box in the NEC is in article 725 pargrah A54 exception 13 (exception 13 may now be gone as this is no longer listed as an exception). Again - only use this point if and when the inspectors stops you from using cat5

We just broke ground, and I am considering emailing the inspector to inquire about the exception for LV wire in HV boxes. I've searched the net without luck to find the actual language of this NEC article. Do you happen to have it? Or a link to it?

 

[Sacedog]

This is a LAST RESORT tool to use - AVOID THIS AT ALL COSTS! The place where mixing high and low voltage in the same box in the NEC is in article 725 pargrah A54 exception 13 (exception 13 may now be gone as this is no longer listed as an exception). Again - only use this point if and when the inspectors stops you from using cat5

We just broke ground, and I am considering emailing the inspector to inquire about the exception for LV wire in HV boxes. I've searched the net without luck to find the actual language of this NEC article. Do you happen to have it? Or a link to it?

If you grab the cut sheet (install sheet) from the OnQ website, you should be able to take that down to your planning department to have them look at it over the counter. That is what I did, and they gave me the thumbs up. As long as you use the sheething included with the switches, and install the switches as shown on the install sheet, there should not be a problem. But, ALWAYS get approval from your planning department first.

 

[AceCannon]

If you grab the cut sheet (install sheet) from the OnQ website, you should be able to take that down to your planning department to have them look at it over the counter. That is what I did, and they gave me the thumbs up. As long as you use the sheething included with the switches, and install the switches as shown on the install sheet, there should not be a problem. But, ALWAYS get approval from your planning department first.

Great info, thanks. I will do just that.

 

[TonyStewart]

If you grab the cut sheet (install sheet) from the OnQ website, you should be able to take that down to your planning department to have them look at it over the counter. That is what I did, and they gave me the thumbs up. As long as you use the sheething included with the switches, and install the switches as shown on the install sheet, there should not be a problem. But, ALWAYS get approval from your planning department first.

Great info, thanks. I will do just that.

I agree that you should not approach the inspector before hand. And don't forget that the connections are made on top of the box and not inside it anyway. On top of the box is outside the influence of all but the most unreasonable inspectors!

TS

 

[TonyStewart]

I've had concerns about OnQ's products because the scene switches don't seem to appear as polished as some other solutions. Anyone heard yet about possible plans to have backlit scene switches?

Don't forget that you can use most anybodies scene switch. Well at least if you are using a controller like the Elk m1. More specifically you can use the best looking scene switches (like Litetouch) as long as they use a contact closure type. So the choice of scene switches is not limited to ALC.

God Bless
TS

 

[Ranger Digital]

Number, I did not know you could use anyone elses switches. great to know!

Did you mean to say you SHOULD meet with inspector first? You said should NOT approach inspector. By all means they SHOULD do so.

And do you really make the connections on top the box? I never did understand how that works. There is no way to get BEHIND the drywall to make it look right. I ALWAYS ALWAYS put my connections INSIDE the box. Would like to hear more bout your installs OUTSIDE the box. Got pics?

 

[AceCannon]

Don't forget that you can use most anybodies scene switch. Well at least if you are using a controller like the Elk m1. More specifically you can use the best looking scene switches (like Litetouch) as long as they use a contact closure type. So the choice of scene switches is not limited to ALC.

I'd love to hear more details about how to deploy this. I looked up Litetouch's scene switches but didn't find any specific info on how to use these with ALC switches. . Assuming they use simple contacts for the switches (which I cannot find evidence of on their website), would you wire these into an input on the Elk, then make rules to switch on ALC lights? What about displaying load status on a scene switch? Use Elk outputs to power LEDs?

Has anyone used non-ALC scene switches in this scenario?

 

[beelzerob]

Don't forget that you can use most anybodies scene switch. Well at least if you are using a controller like the Elk m1. More specifically you can use the best looking scene switches (like Litetouch) as long as they use a contact closure type. So the choice of scene switches is not limited to ALC.

When I realized that what you said is true, I also realized that I'm in big trouble then. That means that a 4-button scene switch would require a cat5 cable all to itself. I didn't run any extra cat5 to light switches, I just made sure that each switch had a run of cat5 that went by it....many switches share individual runs. And that works fine for ALC switches, since they share the same wires. But any plans to have added a 4-button scene switch next to a row of other switches isn't going to work then unless I can somehow run another cat5 wire.... Oh well, I shoulda learned more about the scene switches I guess....I think I somehow thought they were addressed like all other switches.

 

[TonyStewart]

Don't forget that you can use most anybodies scene switch. Well at least if you are using a controller like the Elk m1. More specifically you can use the best looking scene switches (like Litetouch) as long as they use a contact closure type. So the choice of scene switches is not limited to ALC.

When I realized that what you said is true, I also realized that I'm in big trouble then. That means that a 4-button scene switch would require a cat5 cable all to itself. I didn't run any extra cat5 to light switches, I just made sure that each switch had a run of cat5 that went by it....many switches share individual runs. And that works fine for ALC switches, since they share the same wires. But any plans to have added a 4-button scene switch next to a row of other switches isn't going to work then unless I can somehow run another cat5 wire.... Oh well, I shoulda learned more about the scene switches I guess....I think I somehow thought they were addressed like all other switches.

No, you are still OK. You can use the same 2 wire polling lopp for scene switches (of course they require 120vac to power the internal smarts).

Hope this helped.

TS

 

[Ranger Digital]

Number20 is correct! (as usual).

They only connections on the program switch are the + and -, same ones as on the other alc switches. Remember, its the ADDRESS that the switchs pick up on, so you dont need a different cat5 to run to the program switch.

We are installing switches now in our model home/showroom/design center. Lesson learned: OOOPS, crap didnt know the program switches needed freakin high voltage until we started installeding them last week. Worked out though as it was actually easy to get HV to it, believe it or not. Got lucky.

Tony, I promised I would place an order with you when I needed something. We did. Small, but still. Got the two ALC QUAD switches pronto! Thanks! Error I made? You CANT put to QUAD in the same box because they are HUGE and can ONLY go in a SINGLE gang, you cant even have a Quad with any other switch. Major issue. If only we could find a face plate that would work for a Quad and another switch. For show purposes we had a quad, program switch and dimmer. Working on custom cutting out a three gang face plate or making one out of wood. Unless you know of another solution?

Did I make sense to everyone interested? The opening on the faceplate for a quad is about a 1/4 bigger on all four sides thus a regular face plate doesnt work rendering the ability to put a quad with any other switch a no go.

 

[beelzerob]

I didn't know there were scene switches with addresses on them. Could you link it please? That makes me feel better.

I was referring to your statement that you could just use contact closure switches, though. I have one such scene switch, in fact...it has 4 buttons, and on the back of each button is an On, Off, and Common wire connection. So, to fully use this 4-scene switch, I'd have to run a pair to each switch. I think maybe instead of a 4-button scene switch, it's more of a 4-button "alternate-switch" unit.

 

[AceCannon]

I didn't know there were scene switches with addresses on them. Could you link it please? That makes me feel better.

I was referring to your statement that you could just use contact closure switches, though. I have one such scene switch, in fact...it has 4 buttons, and on the back of each button is an On, Off, and Common wire connection. So, to fully use this 4-scene switch, I'd have to run a pair to each switch. I think maybe instead of a 4-button scene switch, it's more of a 4-button "alternate-switch" unit.

Could you link to your switch? How do you plan to interface this to your ALC deployment? Elk?

 

[felixrosbergen]

Number20 is correct! (as usual).

They only connections on the program switch are the + and -, same ones as on the other alc switches. Remember, its the ADDRESS that the switchs pick up on, so you dont need a different cat5 to run to the program switch.

We are installing switches now in our model home/showroom/design center. Lesson learned: OOOPS, crap didnt know the program switches needed freakin high voltage until we started installeding them last week. Worked out though as it was actually easy to get HV to it, believe it or not. Got lucky.

Tony, I promised I would place an order with you when I needed something. We did. Small, but still. Got the two ALC QUAD switches pronto! Thanks! Error I made? You CANT put to QUAD in the same box because they are HUGE and can ONLY go in a SINGLE gang, you cant even have a Quad with any other switch. Major issue. If only we could find a face plate that would work for a Quad and another switch. For show purposes we had a quad, program switch and dimmer. Working on custom cutting out a three gang face plate or making one out of wood. Unless you know of another solution?

Did I make sense to everyone interested? The opening on the faceplate for a quad is about a 1/4 bigger on all four sides thus a regular face plate doesnt work rendering the ability to put a quad with any other switch a no go.

IS there referring to the ALC scene switch or something else? I was assuming that the ALC scene switch was a normal singel gang unit that would fit in a decoare plate along with other items in a multigang box or in a LV bracket of a HV box...can you please confirm what the deal is here? Meeting with my electrician on monday and this would be an important thing to know..