TonyStewart
Active Member
Your idea would functionally work. To stay code, you may want to look into a nema enclosure.
TS
Hardwired Lighting System Using Cat5
- Thread starter Sacedog
- Start date
Your idea would functionally work. To stay code, you may want to look into a nema enclosure.
TS
That would certainly work. But if dual speed is important, then you can accomplish it still.
Can you disconnect the switch (be sure to first turn the AC mains off!)? If so, try this. Use a multimeter and check connectivity between the switch wires. If my guess is right that in low mode, the common wire is connected to one wire, and in high mode, to both, then per my other note, you can use two seperate relays to control the speed as if you manually changed the switch. The relays would work like two lines feeding the same load.
To wire this up, you connect one pin on each relay together and to the power feed to the fan (ie. the common wire on the switch). Then the other side of each relay would be the hot wire going to respective wires that used to go to the switch. Turn relay 1 and you have low speed. Turn relay 2 and you have high speed. Turn both off and the fan goes off.
In other words, you are using two relays to emulate a two position switch. If you can discover the layout of the switch, then you can recreate it using relays.
Another thing that might help is to see if there is a part number on the switch. Then do a google search on it. If you find it, then it should say how the swtich works and per above, you can use a couple of relays to do the same thing.
beelzerob
Senior Member
Heh, I found an old cellphone pic I took of the label on the box, because I wanted to look it up online.
It's a markel ventilation products BD36-2-WHS. Unfortunately, the manufacturer's website is spartan to the extreme, so no online docs on how to install it.
I'll have to call the electrician who did it and see if they remember how it was done.
It's a markel ventilation products BD36-2-WHS. Unfortunately, the manufacturer's website is spartan to the extreme, so no online docs on how to install it.
I'll have to call the electrician who did it and see if they remember how it was done.I found the company web page for that unit: http://www.tpicorp.com/Catalog/INDUSTRIALF...ticFans/cat.pdfHeh, I found an old cellphone pic I took of the label on the box, because I wanted to look it up online.
It's a markel ventilation products BD36-2-WHS. Unfortunately, the manufacturer's website is spartan to the extreme, so no online docs on how to install it.
Alas, it is devoid of the schematic for the switch.
Can you access the switch easily? If so, try to find the markings on that. I am pretty sure they would use an off-the-shelf switch we may be able to look up.
BTW, the company does have contact information: http://www.tpicorp.com/
Try sending them email or call them to see what they say. Tell them you want the schematic for the wiring/switch.
Try sending them email or call them to see what they say. Tell them you want the schematic for the wiring/switch.
TonyStewart
Active Member
Another thing to try would be to ask them (if you can get a live human on the telephone) if they have an RF remote control package for the fan. If they do then you can install it and then take the remote control apart and solder across the manual buttons for each speed and on/off. Then add relays contacts to each button for the automation.
Chances are they don't have a remote control add on. But soldering wires across remote control contacts will work with a lot of ceiling fans that use RF for control. Of course this voids the warranty on the remote control.
We have also tried this on a few IR remote controls (which is line of site) and controlled the fan using the Pyramid Remote control extender. This allows the actual IR remote control to be placed at the location of your controller/PC and "Repeated" to the remote location of the IR controlled fan.
While the Pyramid have a limited range, they extend the IR signal well in most applications. Note that the link between the two pyramids is RF and is affected by mirrors worse than any other thing. For example, don't expect any RF remote to go through the walls of the bathroom or through any mirrored door.
The pyramid works like this:
Point your IR remote at the transmitter pyramid cube. When you press a button (or automate the pressing of a button with a relay) the receiver cube transmits using RF to the other cube which is located near your fan (on the end table in the living room). The receiving cube receives the RF equivalent of the IR command and then "blasts
the IR command out. The blast is pretty wide so pointing the cube directly at the ceiling fan is often not necessary.
The Pyramids are made by X-10 but DO NOT USE X-10 in any way. They have been around for many years and often solve the problem of extending an IR command.
TS
TonyStewart
Active Member
OK, it's time to set things straight.............
There is some propaganda that says at Cedia OnQ's ALC lighting products were to be replaced by OnQ Vantage products. HOGWASH!
Gary Axe, the inventor of the product line and chief Engineer at OnQ would have a heart attack if he heard this said.
At Cedia, the market is for the top of the line stuff with the most sizzle! Vantage has always fit in well there. So, the sales people manning the booth (typically not engineers) steer people to be products they have that compete with other products at Cedia like Litetouch etc.
ALC and Vantage are two different worlds, two different markets. My guess is that some synergy will soon exist between the two product lines that has complimentary products. But ALC will not be replaced by Vantage!
Over the years OnQ has kept a strong offering of grassroots products and with the purchase of Vantage, US Tech and Grayfox, they also offer products to upscale markets as well.
I am copying this to Gary so that he can be aware of the propaganda. But chances are the people making these claims are sales types that Gary may never meet!
Should you hoard your ALC products? Yes, please hoard ALC switches because I need the sales, not because a product with over 12 years run time is going away.
TS
There is some propaganda that says at Cedia OnQ's ALC lighting products were to be replaced by OnQ Vantage products. HOGWASH!
Gary Axe, the inventor of the product line and chief Engineer at OnQ would have a heart attack if he heard this said.
At Cedia, the market is for the top of the line stuff with the most sizzle! Vantage has always fit in well there. So, the sales people manning the booth (typically not engineers) steer people to be products they have that compete with other products at Cedia like Litetouch etc.
ALC and Vantage are two different worlds, two different markets. My guess is that some synergy will soon exist between the two product lines that has complimentary products. But ALC will not be replaced by Vantage!
Over the years OnQ has kept a strong offering of grassroots products and with the purchase of Vantage, US Tech and Grayfox, they also offer products to upscale markets as well.
I am copying this to Gary so that he can be aware of the propaganda. But chances are the people making these claims are sales types that Gary may never meet!
Should you hoard your ALC products? Yes, please hoard ALC switches because I need the sales, not because a product with over 12 years run time is going away.
TS
beelzerob
Senior Member
Thanks for the reassurance, Tony! If anyone would know what the outlook is for ALC, it'd be you.
And BELIEVE me, if I had the money, I'd have horded my switches a while ago....
I've actually almost got her convinced it's time to light up some circuits in the house, now I have to determine which ones and how much it'll be.
And BELIEVE me, if I had the money, I'd have horded my switches a while ago....
I've actually almost got her convinced it's time to light up some circuits in the house, now I have to determine which ones and how much it'll be.Ranger Digital
Active Member
Interesting, I never heard at CEDIA that ALC was going out the window. Yes, likely over zealous sales people atttempting to create their own sales frenzy. However, it was said its likely On-Q will forego their HMS panels. And probably not a bad idea since they dont support them (on a sales side I mean, as for as tech support TOUCH NOTCH!).
On-q is not innovative with their HMS line nor are they agressive in marketing, selling or promoting their OEM'd HAI boards called HMS. I have since switched to HAI.
That said, ALC is NOT a part of that HMS strategy as Tony stated. On-q owns the ALC technology but doesnt own the HMS technology. Two different animals.
I am still of the belief that ALC is the way to go for lighting. No near term goals of switching from ALC in our shop. ALC is still king.
Long live ALC!
On-q's strategy is now to appeal to mass builders whereby for a tiny few grand get audio, intercom and camera in every home they can. Not a bad strategy but it all still lacks the interconnectivity to those that want a little more control. Their comment on that is, of course, Vantage. Well, for my markets, its not Vantage. HAI with ALC fits the bill everytime. For those customers that just want something that works, cost less and is easy, the new on-q line of products is right up that alley and is very promising.
Its kinda like On-Q is just now figuring out what they want to be when they grow up, LOL. After failed attempts to buy HAI and grow that way, the new path of selling into more homes a less expensive product looks like it might just work.
Good luck to them. Love their tech support.
On-q is not innovative with their HMS line nor are they agressive in marketing, selling or promoting their OEM'd HAI boards called HMS. I have since switched to HAI.
That said, ALC is NOT a part of that HMS strategy as Tony stated. On-q owns the ALC technology but doesnt own the HMS technology. Two different animals.
I am still of the belief that ALC is the way to go for lighting. No near term goals of switching from ALC in our shop. ALC is still king.
Long live ALC!
On-q's strategy is now to appeal to mass builders whereby for a tiny few grand get audio, intercom and camera in every home they can. Not a bad strategy but it all still lacks the interconnectivity to those that want a little more control. Their comment on that is, of course, Vantage. Well, for my markets, its not Vantage. HAI with ALC fits the bill everytime. For those customers that just want something that works, cost less and is easy, the new on-q line of products is right up that alley and is very promising.
Its kinda like On-Q is just now figuring out what they want to be when they grow up, LOL. After failed attempts to buy HAI and grow that way, the new path of selling into more homes a less expensive product looks like it might just work.
Good luck to them. Love their tech support.
TonyStewart
Active Member
TonyStewart
Active Member
I have seen a vision of a few things from OnQ that I believe is an early look at the connectivity you mentioned.
However, none of what I am about to share is official. Instead is my opinion on a possible strategy underway. I HAVE NOT SEEN MUCH OF WHAT I AM DREAMING/DROOLING ABOUT!
As for HMS, they recently brought the firmware up to date to match the features of the compatible HAI controllers (this was after months of failing behind on firmware updates). This may mean little, but it could mean that they want some time until "something else" is ready????? And it could mean "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"! After all the HMS is the twin sister to HAI with ALC onboard (unlike HAI Omni models who require a piggy back board). So, the HMS line just may be around for a while yet and there lies the connectivity that linKs them to a wide variety of products from many manufacturers. Getting rid of the HMS made for them by HAI would be dumb unless they have something coming to replace it!
They also have amazing engineering depth and I say they are planning something big! You may not know it but America's first integrated system was called the "Smarthouse" and the team now known as OnQ Legrand were the same folks who provided much of that system. So, they know all about integration! During those days, they were simply too far ahead of the market!
If we could sit in on their strategy meetings and were allowed to speak, we would all say that they should tie all the brands they have together and increase the connectivity! If we said this in their strategy session, chances are we would be advised to be patient as this is not a new topic!
Sometime next year they will release the 7" color touchscreen for their new "Studio Collection". Day 1 it ties their whole house audio, intercom and camera system together. But it is also a powerful processor that could handle much more! Could it be that the next phase of their plans will be a link to automation? Hmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!
The smart money would also not rule out any market either. Certainly Vantage is a strong competitor on the high end, but getting home builders to adopt it as part of a standard package will rarely happen. But they also own a family of products that does fit in well with the cost minded home builder.
What is the perfect offering and who currently has it? Here is my vision....
Start each job with structured wiring. OnQ for the economy job and US Tech for the upper end. What else is popular with most buyers? What about an intercom system? Or an Intercom with whole house audio? Add cameras to either mix. Add automated ALC lighting for the ecomony market and Vantage for the high end. Tie it all together with a nice touchscreen and other nice human interfaces. The result is.......... a system for any dollar size job and for any market that can be as small or large as the buyer dictates..
Surely the mix of products available from OnQ today are not an accident. It has taken them years to position all things together for this advantage.
Sure I am guessing. But looking over their strengths (I left out many other goodies they have) I am sure they see what they have and it's no accident.
Until the full program is ready, there will be no talk from them. The worst way to ruin a surprise is to tell a salesperson! As such our OnQ contacts know little from which to share!
It may take a year or two, but I say the creator of the first Smarthouse still remembers their roots. They spent more money on Smarthouse than was spent purchasing all the brands they now have combined!
Today, we should all wire for each subsystem as is and plan a few places for the cat5 touchscreens and other keypads that will surely come.
Just my opinon mind you. If they are not working in this direction, then they are idiots and I know they are not!
God Bless
TS
felixrosbergen
Senior Member
To my knowledge you need the ELK <> ALC interface to allow Elk to control the light.
http://www.setnetpro.com/product.asp?3=1993
It should sit directly on the ELK databus.
I haven't personally installed it yet, but this is what my research has taught me.
Good to hear ALC is here to stay, coz i just instructed the building to put in the provisions for it.
http://www.setnetpro.com/product.asp?3=1993
It should sit directly on the ELK databus.
I haven't personally installed it yet, but this is what my research has taught me.
Good to hear ALC is here to stay, coz i just instructed the building to put in the provisions for it.
Appreciate you chiming in. But for me to invest in a system for the life of my house, I would need to hear from the company itself. Again, I do appreciate your support of their product but it is just not the same.
Is this what you call propaganda? I go to CEDIA and talk to all hardwire lighting people. They all spend 30 minute plus with me explaining what they have, etc. Then I go to OnQ booth and ask the same question. I am told in no uncertain terms that they do NOT sell hardwired lighting. I say no, you do and they keep pointing to Vantage booth next door and say go to talk to them. When I asked about intercom though, they were happy to show me their stuff there so no one was trying to get rid of me.
So until I hear from another OnQ employee that the above is not the case, I have to go by it. Yes, booth people can be uninformed but this is not little detail. A lighting system must be there and supported for many years. I do not want to pull out their system, especially given its unique wiring configuration (as friendly as it might be for retrofit) and try to figure out how to make it work with something else.
Great. Can we get him to come here and officially explain why they don't show and explain the system if it is still a viable system? Note that I am concerned about lack of attention to product line as much as it going away. If a product line is not well liked nor promoted, then demand will decline further, causing them to pull the plug later.
Fair enough but Centralite was there in full force and as you know, their cost structure is also well below that of Crestron, etc. So given a choice, I am not sure what motivation there is to go with OnQ instead of Centralite. And yes, I have read this entire thread
.Few engineers make business decisions to discontinue their own product
. At least that has been the case in my 30 years of working in the computer and electronics industry. It is a tough call to kill a product line but if company politics or sales situation dictate it, it happens and happens all the time. Not saying this is the case now but OnQ sent a loud and clear message with their stance at CEDIA. That this product is not front and center as a minimum, and at worst, is about to be discontinued.It doesn't matter that it has been around for 12 years. What matters that it will be supported and be available for the next 20 years. That is the worry...
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