Home Wiring Help

[jmouland]

Hey all,
First I would like to thank everyone for the input and apologize for the long post but I wanted to provide as much detail as possible to get the most useful info. First I will list questions I have and then after that will be listed specific details on each room’s requirements. Please keep in mind I am looking for the most economic solution that enables future expandability.

- Can I run HD video from my Satellite receivers in the AV Closet to my video devices in each room using CAT6? Is this the preferred method?
- Is it a bad idea to have any of the components listed below in my AV Closet?
- Will running one CAT6 cable to each volume control enable future upgradability to a whole house control system?
- How would I accomplish the IPod functionality so plugging it in would override any other input and play the IPod on that one ceiling speaker
- How would I accomplish switching between Sirius radio and a video device for any specific room?
- Please offer any other critiques/suggestions you may have


AV Closet Components

RX-V630 AV Receiver (Currently own this so would like to find a way to use it)

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/product...DUCT&LGFL=Y

HTR-6160 Dual Zone AV Receiver (Need to buy this for Dual Zone functionality)

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/product...mp;CTID=5000400

HD/PVR Satellite Receiver (Currently own this)

http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en_CA_ON.HD-PV...tails?tab=SPECS

HD Satellite Receiver (Currently own this)

http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en_CA_ON.HD-sy...tails?tab=SPECS

Sirius Satellite Radio Receiver

EtherFast 4124 24-Port 10/100 Ethernet Switch (Will buy this)

http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/products/EF4124

Some Sort of AV Switch (I will add this on in the future so than I can access any of my components in any room)


Common functionality in Living Room, Bedroom, Ensuite, Guest Room #1 and Guest Room #2

- Phone (Home Run to Basement Closet)
- Internet Accessible (Home Run to router in Basement Closet)
- Satellite TV Accessible (Home Run to Satellite Receiver in Basement Closet)
- Blu-Ray Player Accessible (Home Run to Blue-Ray in Basement Closet)
- PS3 Accessible (Home Run to PS3 in Basement Closet)

Common functionality in Living Room, Bedroom, Ensuite, Guest Room #1 and Guest Room #2, Dining Room, Kitchen, Back Deck

- Phone (Home Run to Basement Closet)
- Ceiling Speaker for Sirius and TV (Home Run to Yamaha Receiver in Basement Closet)
- IPod Jack (When plugged in plays iPod on only this speaker)
- Volume Control (Manual at first but upgradable to whole house control)
- IR Relay (Home Run to Basement Closet)

Living Room

- Surround Sound (Home Run to Yamaha Receiver in Basement Closet)

Apartment Bedroom

- Phone (Home Run to Basement Closet)
- Internet Accessible (Home Run to router in Basement Closet)
- RG6 Accessible (Home Run to Basement Closet)

Apartment Living Room

- Phone (Home Run to Basement Closet)
- Internet Accessible (Home Run to router in Basement Closet)
- RG6 Accessible (Home Run to Basement Closet)

Apartment Kitchen

- Phone (Home Run to Basement Closet)
- Internet Accessible (Home Run to router in Basement Closet)

 

[icellama21]

Hmm, sounds like a big project. I'll add some wiring tips.

1) RG6(pref quad shield) for CATV/Satelite distribution.

Note, this is NOT good for HD video(HDMI, component video, DVI, etc), but great to feed the coaxial output of a cable/sat box or the feed into a cable/sat box in each room

2) Cat5e or Cat6.

This serves telephone, internet, extenders(baluns for video, audio, future technologies), IR distribution, etc. Cat6 is future proof, cat5e is all that is needed for up to gigabit ethernet(wire carefully). Cat5e can carry almost anything with the right baluns, HDMI, component video, serial, etc. VERY useful for now and the future. Wire lots of these.

3) RG59 or mini-coax.

For HD component video or digital audio. Usually 3-5 conductors to each room. Allows you to share video sources in HD. Look for solid copper core and copper braided shield.

4) 18/4, 16/4, etc.

For audio speakers(2 conductors per speaker), basic IR transmitters/receivers, power, basic communication, automation relays, etc.

5) HDMI cable

You can also save 2 cat5e cables to carry HDMI. Some would argue the future is all digitial(copyrights management), but I would argue that component video is here to stay for a while. It is also VERY expensive to switch HDMI. Not recommended, but who knows, someday it may be a nescessity. Cover your bases with extra cat5e just in case.

 

[jmouland]

So is there any downside to running 10 CAT6 cable to each room and combine that with 4 speaker wires? WHats the downside to just using these?

Hmm, sounds like a big project. I'll add some wiring tips.

1) RG6(pref quad shield) for CATV/Satelite distribution.

Note, this is NOT good for HD video(HDMI, component video, DVI, etc), but great to feed the coaxial output of a cable/sat box or the feed into a cable/sat box in each room

2) Cat5e or Cat6.

This serves telephone, internet, extenders(baluns for video, audio, future technologies), IR distribution, etc. Cat6 is future proof, cat5e is all that is needed for up to gigabit ethernet(wire carefully). Cat5e can carry almost anything with the right baluns, HDMI, component video, serial, etc. VERY useful for now and the future. Wire lots of these.

3) RG59 or mini-coax.

For HD component video or digital audio. Usually 3-5 conductors to each room. Allows you to share video sources in HD. Look for solid copper core and copper braided shield.

4) 18/4, 16/4, etc.

For audio speakers(2 conductors per speaker), basic IR transmitters/receivers, power, basic communication, automation relays, etc.

5) HDMI cable

You can also save 2 cat5e cables to carry HDMI. Some would argue the future is all digitial(copyrights management), but I would argue that component video is here to stay for a while. It is also VERY expensive to switch HDMI. Not recommended, but who knows, someday it may be a nescessity. Cover your bases with extra cat5e just in case.

 

[icellama21]

cat5e/cat6 CAN be used for most things these days. It can carry telephone, ethernet, serial communications and basic analog audio pretty well by itself. If you want to do component video, VGA/DVI, HDMI, digital audio, etc, you will need pricey baluns(usually $100+ for a pair).

In many cases it is cheaper to use RG6 and RG59 to run audio/video, depends on your components and the difficulty of running the wires. A number of audio and video switching systems distribute by cat5e/6. If you want the simplest and cheapest way to distribute component video, use RG59.

I would still run at least 2 RG6-quad shield wires to each room in case you want to add a cable box/modem/sat box later. It is very hard to get that kind of bandwidth over cat5e/6.

 

[sic0048]

As long as the Cat6 cable is where you need it, there is little downside to doing this. Of course to send anything other than data through those wires (like HD video, or composite video, etc), you will have to buy baluns which basically convert the signal from whatever it really is, to something that can be sent out over cat6, and then back again to it's original form. The baluns are not cheap at the moment (but perhaps they will drop in price as time goes on). Expect to pay approx $100 per set of baluns. Of course the price is also dependant on the signals you are trying to convert, but that is probably a good average price right now.

 

[jmouland]

Ok so judging from the posts I should run

- One RG59 from each room that requires video to the AV Closet. This will connect directly to the back of my TV then?
- Audio should run from my Yamaha recievers using regular speaker wire? is this correct?
- Would I set Zone 1 to my HDPVR sound and Zone 2 to my Sirius radio? Should I use my other Yamaha reciever for the master bedroom sound?
- Is it less risky to pay the extra price for the Baluns and just go CAT6? will this future proof me any better than RG59?

As long as the Cat6 cable is where you need it, there is little downside to doing this. Of course to send anything other than data through those wires (like HD video, or composite video, etc), you will have to buy baluns which basically convert the signal from whatever it really is, to something that can be sent out over cat6, and then back again to it's original form. The baluns are not cheap at the moment (but perhaps they will drop in price as time goes on). Expect to pay approx $100 per set of baluns. Of course the price is also dependant on the signals you are trying to convert, but that is probably a good average price right now.

 

[sic0048]

Ok so judging from the posts I should run

- One RG59 from each room that requires video to the AV Closet. This will connect directly to the back of my TV then?
- Audio should run from my Yamaha recievers using regular speaker wire? is this correct?
- Would I set Zone 1 to my HDPVR sound and Zone 2 to my Sirius radio? Should I use my other Yamaha reciever for the master bedroom sound?
- Is it less risky to pay the extra price for the Baluns and just go CAT6? will this future proof me any better than RG59?

I would never suggest that you run only RG-59 wires. You definitely need to run 2-3 cat5e wires to each location. I personally ran 3-5 RG-59 (actually I used a precision mini coax which is smaller than RG-59) to each TV location (3 for component video and 2 for stereo), 2 RG-6 wires for raw cable or OTA signals, and 2-4 Cat5e wires depending on the location.

 

[beelzerob]

You might find some useful reading in this thread. I detailed what was involved in actually pre-wiring my house, and also linked to the threads where decisions were made about which wire to use and why.

I think all the pics are down because they were on an ISP we moved from. Maybe someday I'll rehost those on photobucket...

For the record, I chose RG59 (5 wires per Tv location) because the cost was about the same as a single pair of baluns. I also ran 3 cat5 to each tv location for future use. So far, in retrospect, I wish I'd run more RG6QS (I ran 2) to the main Tv location. Oh well.

 

[jmouland]

Great feedback guys

Can you explain why you regret not having more RG6? My goal is to house everything in the AV Closet so im wondering why you need those?

You might find some useful reading in this thread. I detailed what was involved in actually pre-wiring my house, and also linked to the threads where decisions were made about which wire to use and why.

I think all the pics are down because they were on an ISP we moved from. Maybe someday I'll rehost those on photobucket...

For the record, I chose RG59 (5 wires per Tv location) because the cost was about the same as a single pair of baluns. I also ran 3 cat5 to each tv location for future use. So far, in retrospect, I wish I'd run more RG6QS (I ran 2) to the main Tv location. Oh well.

 

[Neurorad]

Ok so judging from the posts I should run

- One RG59 from each room that requires video to the AV Closet. This will connect directly to the back of my TV then?
- Audio should run from my Yamaha recievers using regular speaker wire? is this correct?
- Would I set Zone 1 to my HDPVR sound and Zone 2 to my Sirius radio? Should I use my other Yamaha reciever for the master bedroom sound?
- Is it less risky to pay the extra price for the Baluns and just go CAT6? will this future proof me any better than RG59?

You'll need baluns for cat5e or cat6, for HD video.

Your speaker wire should be 16/4 or 14/4 (red/green/black/white) (16 or 14 guage, 4 wires).

Speaker cables run to each drop should be run to (and through) locations of in-wall volume controls (for installation now, or later).

Run cat5e or cat6 to locations of in-wall volume controls, from the closet. You will need this cable when you want source selection (change from Sirius to FM or to DVD or to digital music files), and/or if you want distributed IR control.

Zone 1 of your receiver will be for TV/DVD/Cable/satellite, video and sound. Do you want 6 speakers in your main viewing/listening area (5.1)? You should wire that room for 5.1 if you do.

Zone 2 will be for distributed audio. If you will have more than 1 speaker pair run off of zone 2 then you will need a device to match the impedances of the receiver and the speakers (impedance matching volume controls or impedance matching speaker selector box or impedance matching connecting block).

Research, research, research. Be patient.

You're trying to future proof. Where will your speakers be located, in all rooms? In-ceiling?

Have you looked at a wireless music distrubition system? Do you have a PC with digital music files that you'll want to listen to? Where will the PC be located? Do you have room in the closet for shelves, or a rack?

Might be easier to wire the distributed music system through the second receiver, rather than trying to use zone 2. The 2nd receiver, though, could be used to amplify the zone 2 signal, if you're running more than a couple of in-ceiling or in-wall speaker pairs, outdoor speakers, or a 2nd dedicated listening/viewing area (bedroom TV, with larger speakers).

If you want to use local sources (iPod), then you need to wire for that, and think about local amplification.

Welcome to cocoontech. As I mentioned at AVS, it may help to break up your questions. At first glance many of your questions are straightforward, but they really raise a lot of other questions.

 

[jmouland]

You'll need baluns for cat5e or cat6, for HD video.
-- Is this a better way to go than running multiple RG59's?

Your speaker wire should be 16/4 or 14/4 (red/green/black/white) (16 or 14 guage, 4 wires).
-- Are either of these better than the other? Each room will have a two way celing speaker will this use all 4 wires?

Run cat5e or cat6 to locations of in-wall volume controls, from the closet. You will need this cable when you want source selection (change from Sirius to FM or to DVD or to digital music files), and/or if you want distributed IR control.

-- wouldnt the source selection be accomplished with the IR repeater as well?

Zone 1 of your receiver will be for TV/DVD/Cable/satellite, video and sound. Do you want 6 speakers in your main viewing/listening area (5.1)? You should wire that room for 5.1 if you do.

-- If I run one 16/4 for the celing speaker in the main room what do I run for the surround sound 7.1?

Zone 2 will be for distributed audio. If you will have more than 1 speaker pair run off of zone 2 then you will need a device to match the impedances of the receiver and the speakers (impedance matching volume controls or impedance matching speaker selector box or impedance matching connecting block).

-- Great tip I will do more research into this I will need every rooms ceiling speakers run off this zone

You're trying to future proof. Where will your speakers be located, in all rooms? In-ceiling?

-- Celing speakers in every room for background music and supplementation of TV sound, there will be surround sound in the living room

Have you looked at a wireless music distrubition system? Do you have a PC with digital music files that you'll want to listen to? Where will the PC be located? Do you have room in the closet for shelves, or a rack?

-- I was hoping to use my ipod docked into my Yamaha reciever for this purpose. I also would like ipod jacks in each room so that when the ipod is plugged in there it overrides any other audio going to the celing speaker and that becoems the source for that individual room, is this possible?

Might be easier to wire the distributed music system through the second receiver, rather than trying to use zone 2. The 2nd receiver, though, could be used to amplify the zone 2 signal, if you're running more than a couple of in-ceiling or in-wall speaker pairs, outdoor speakers, or a 2nd dedicated listening/viewing area (bedroom TV, with larger speakers).

-- I will be having all the above mentioned areas, in celing in living,dining,kitchen, all three bedrooms and ensuite. outdoor speakers on deck.

If you want to use local sources (iPod), then you need to wire for that, and think about local amplification.
-- Whats the easiest way to amplify locally? Or would I just Home Run the Ipod jacks to the reciever?

 

[beelzerob]

You'll need baluns for cat5e or cat6, for HD video.
-- Is this a better way to go than running multiple RG59's?

I think this gets back to the cost of RG59 vs. cost of baluns. I wasn't as clear as I should have been above...in my case, I found that I could wire my ENTIRE house with RG59 to all tv locations for the same cost as a single pair of baluns. So that was an easy choice, mainly because I was able to run the wires wherever I wanted, and I had a great helper.

Your speaker wire should be 16/4 or 14/4 (red/green/black/white) (16 or 14 guage, 4 wires).
-- Are either of these better than the other? Each room will have a two way celing speaker will this use all 4 wires?

Personally, I went with 14/4, even though only a few runs were far enough away to justify it. Wire gauge for speakers is a long and old debate, but my feeling was that this was my one chance to wire anything anywhere...it was not the time to be cheap.

By "two way" speaker, I assume you mean a 2 channel speaker? In other words, it has both the left and right channel in the same speaker? If so, then yes, that will still take all 4 wires, 2 for left, and 2 for right. Otherwise, there are probably some kind of mixer you can buy that will mix the left and right on the amp end and send both combined signals over a single pair of speaker wire...but it's probably expensive somehow.

As far as my RG6QS "plight", it was only that one room so far, and here is why. We have Dish (I hate 'em), and the DVR they gave us has a coax output that will send a 2nd tv signal to anywhere else. So you can plug another TV into that output, and tune to the right channel, and there is the tv show. So, I had the satellite signal coming in over RG6 into the dish box, and then I had the output going out over the other RG6. Well, then I went and hooked up the antenna for local HD broadcasts...and I had to get that from my attic to the same location (to my TV). So that's the 3rd RG6 wire that was needed.

Bottom line, in known heavy media locations that aren't accessible later, run lots of extra everything. I actually have something like 10 RG59's going there in case I wanted to send out and receive back component video (which I may still do). But I shoulda run an extra rg6.

Oh well, you learn.

 

[jmouland]

Thanks for the reply, here is what I was thinking

- Use HDMI baluns on CAT6 for my video and stereo sound, have 2 runs of CAT6 for this purpose to each potential video device (Living Room, Master Bedroom, Ensuite, Guest Bedrooms)

- Use 4X3 HDMI Matrix Switch with two Sat Recievers in AV Closet and my PS3 in living room Home Run to AV closet by CAT6 so that I can pause a movie in the living room and start watching it again in any other room

- Feed the audio from my devices into a triple zone av reciever (This should enable me to watch/listen to 3 different input sources in 3 different zones)

In each room ...
- Have one run of CAT6 to each volume control for future upgradeability
- Have one run of CAT6 to each phone location
- Have one run of CAT6 for Internet
- Have one run of CAT6 for IR Relay
- Have one run of CAT6 for Future Unknowns

Home run all speakers to AV reciever in closet


How does this sound? What am I missing or misunderstanding

 

[sic0048]

I think you're wiring thoughts are good. But it also depends on where each of those devices will be in the room. For example, I would recommend you run a minimum of 2 Cat6 (honestly cat5e is fine) to any location - regardless of purpose. So if you have a phone hook up somewhere, and that is all you plan in that location, I would still run at least 2 wires.

Also, you need to think of major areas like TV locations and computer locations a little differently and certainly put too much wire there.

Think about TVs today. More and more TVs are going to have internet hookups, many STB need internet/phone access to phone home, etc. It is only going to get worse in the future. So in those locations you need to run several more wires than you think you need today. Just my opinion.

Of course if you have easy access to run more wire in the future (ie good attic and crawlspace access) then you may get by with less originally. Just make sure you'll have the access to run more wires in the future should it ever become neccessary.

 

[jmouland]

Good tips,
I'm just really hung up on a CATX solution because I think it offers me the best future protection. Even if I went with a cheaper option of Component Baluns and matrix switches I could always convert to HDMI in the future if needed correct?

What If i wanted to expand to whole house heat control? Should i run a CAT to the thermostat locations as well?

I even found some cheap stereo switches so I might be able to hold off on buying a new multizone reciever and just use the one zone one I have now and use a stereo speaker switch for all the in ceiling speakers?

I think you're wiring thoughts are good. But it also depends on where each of those devices will be in the room. For example, I would recommend you run a minimum of 2 Cat6 (honestly cat5e is fine) to any location - regardless of purpose. So if you have a phone hook up somewhere, and that is all you plan in that location, I would still run at least 2 wires.

Also, you need to think of major areas like TV locations and computer locations a little differently and certainly put too much wire there.

Think about TVs today. More and more TVs are going to have internet hookups, many STB need internet/phone access to phone home, etc. It is only going to get worse in the future. So in those locations you need to run several more wires than you think you need today. Just my opinion.

Of course if you have easy access to run more wire in the future (ie good attic and crawlspace access) then you may get by with less originally. Just make sure you'll have the access to run more wires in the future should it ever become neccessary.