How far is your battery from your Elk M1?
- Thread starter robolo
- Start date
I put mine in a remote can (but not that far away). I would use a heavier gauge wire. For 15 feet maybe 14 awg (I think thats the largest that will fit in the M1 terminal block). I put mine in conduit since the battery is not power limited and if the wires were to be damaged and short it could be a fire hazard (very small chance but I am anal). PVC conduit would work.
Spanky may chime in if he thinks of a problem with this. I would just want to keep the wire resistance low thus the heavy gauge wire.
I think if you are trying to stay UL you might have to keep it in the same can, not sure though. You could always install a fuse at the battery that is large enough to handle load and charging current but small enough to blow on a dead short.
Pepboys has in line fuse holders for a couple of bucks. I would use a 10 or 15 amp blade fuse.
Electrically, I don't see any issue with this. As far as wire 14 AWG for 15 feet...that should be plenty.
Spanky will have the final say.
Pepboys has in line fuse holders for a couple of bucks. I would use a 10 or 15 amp blade fuse.
Electrically, I don't see any issue with this. As far as wire 14 AWG for 15 feet...that should be plenty.
Spanky will have the final say.
UL permits batteries in a remote can if they are supervised and you follow NEC requirements (the conduit etc). If you keep the resistance low enough it should have no performance problems.
I guess I would want to remove the stock battery leads to place the heavier gauge wire rather than just splicing into them? I think I saw somewhere where the face of the ELK can be removed. Is there terminal strip under the cover that the preinstalled battery leads are connected to?
Unless they changed the M1 since I bought mine there is a blue 2 position terminal block at the bottom of the board. The clamshell cover lifts off and you will see it.
I definitely would not splice the wires and just run them direct to the terminal block. You can probably get 14 awg stranded locally. You dont have to use black and red if you cant get those colors. Just observe the correct polarity.
Marc Evans
Member
I have a 48" can and am running out of room to place a fourth zone expander. It is not a great reason but I would prefer to have all my expanders in the same can and move the "extraneous" stuff (like the battery) to a separate can if possible.
A number of people have stacked the input expanders with standoffs. That only requires the footprint of one card.
Brian
murphy
Member
Sure you are able locating the battery miles away if the connecting wire causes not too much voltage loss, is thick enough. That's the electrical point.
Another point would be: reliability. Some shit can happen to the extended cables. Now the system is a security-device and should work safely. Maybe it makes sense to put the prime battery into the same case and moving a part of the additional cards in anoter can.
If the connection is interupted, shorted or not workable: only a part of the system will fail, not the complete system.
Maybe you should design the cable connection as safe as possible: stranded wires, soldered connections, guided cables in solid pipes, maybe a tamper-wire etc.
Another point would be: reliability. Some shit can happen to the extended cables. Now the system is a security-device and should work safely. Maybe it makes sense to put the prime battery into the same case and moving a part of the additional cards in anoter can.
If the connection is interupted, shorted or not workable: only a part of the system will fail, not the complete system.
Maybe you should design the cable connection as safe as possible: stranded wires, soldered connections, guided cables in solid pipes, maybe a tamper-wire etc.
Spanky
Senior Member
Running wire to a remote battery is no problem except for the voltage drop on the wire. As referenced above, 10 to 15 feet on 14 ga. wire will work fine. There should be very little voltage drop. Running 50 feet on 22 ga wire could be a problem.
Putting an inline fuse at the battery of about 4 amps would be a good idea just in case the wire got shorted.
What happens when wires connected to a battery short out can be pretty incredible.
I have taken a paper clip, HELD IT WITH PLIERS, and shorted across the terminals of a charged up 8 amp hour battery. The paper clip glows red hot and melts away.
Note: One quickly learns to protect the battery plastic top from dripping molten metal from the paper clip. Did you read "Held it with pliers", burn, burn!
Measuring the distance between the terminals of a battery with metal calipers can test your reflexes also. The points on the calipers quickly burn off!
Putting an inline fuse at the battery of about 4 amps would be a good idea just in case the wire got shorted.
What happens when wires connected to a battery short out can be pretty incredible.
I have taken a paper clip, HELD IT WITH PLIERS, and shorted across the terminals of a charged up 8 amp hour battery. The paper clip glows red hot and melts away.
Note: One quickly learns to protect the battery plastic top from dripping molten metal from the paper clip. Did you read "Held it with pliers", burn, burn!
Measuring the distance between the terminals of a battery with metal calipers can test your reflexes also. The points on the calipers quickly burn off!
Measuring the distance between the terminals of a battery with metal calipers can test your reflexes also. The points on the calipers quickly burn off!
Didnt your mom ever tell you to do that with a "dead" battery??
When people see 12 vdc if often doesn't phase them a bit. It can be extremely dangerous. I have seen a few "camp fires" on benches over the years from batteries.
I know of an installer that found the 7 aH battery shoved in the wall behind the alarm panel when he took over an account. The previous alarm company apparently did not want to spring for a larger enclosure.
I work with underwater autonomous vehicles that use electrical propulsion systems. 90 amp hour silver cell batteries, when bussed in our configuration generate 200 volts and are capable of ~600 amps.
I have seen the same thing as the paper clip happen to a 6 inch crescent wrench. Very impressive, quite scary :blink: .
Brian
