Insteon and HAL 2000

[jhdale]

W800RF: My personal feeling is that this is a good solution for wireless X10. Much better than a wireless receiver that converts the fairly robust wireless signal into a not particularly robust powerline signal. Also, much faster. So while I've stopped using powerline X10 devices entirely, I still use wireless ones with a W800RF. The wireless remotes and motion sensors are cheaper and more compact than the Insteon equivalents. (Although the Insteon equivalents do a better job of confirming transmission received.) It doesn't work as a CM11A, but specs are available online. I didn't write my own code for this, though.

http://www.wgldesigns.com/protocols/w800rf32_protocol.txt
http://www.wemm.org/ha/w800rf32/

1. Personally I wouldn't bother supporting the PLC. I know people have bypassed the SDM3 but haven't looked into the details.

2. The only devices that I'm aware of are the IRLinc transmitter and receiver. Steve Lee said "they do not use extended messages." In my own tests I found the IRLinc Receiver does not respond to Read/Write All-Link Database, and does respond to Peek. It does respond to standard, but not extended, i2 commands like ID request. This may be why they did such a bad job supporting it in HL2, poor design.

I do keep a list with version numbers of what I know about specific device quirks, although it's limited: http://www.madreporite.com/insteon/Insteon_device_list.htm

4. I know for dimmable devices it's supposed to be data1 = brightness, data2 = ramp rate. Data3 is generally output number, usually 1 but can be the button number (e.g. for KPL) and I would presume for e.g. the motion sensor it will distinguish between motion, light sensor, and low battery messages.

For the EZIO responder links I believe data2 is the link type (00 for turning on a relay specified by data1, 80 for a bit pattern specified by data1, and 01 to respond as if an input was physically turned on). Haven't played with that, though.

6. No, counting bytes is what I have done as well.

7. Some wireless devices repeat their messages, so I generally discard immediate repeat events, regardless of the origin of the duplicates.

That's what I can contribute without doing any testing or extended research...

 

[xlurkr]

For you folks offering Insteon support, I do have some questions if you know the answers. We have already implemented a solution for many of these but if you have a solution it may be better/faster then what we have done.

Don't shoot the messenger, but I think the best solution is for HAL to support the ISY.

For anyone who complains about two computers, they need to understand how important it is to manage all the links in a complex Insteon istallation. And lights need to be their own standalone, bulletproof entity independent of a master computer's status, kind of like a thermostat.

I think the guys at UDI have a better shot at keeping current with SmartHome and SimpleHomeNet's poorly documented products and protocols. It's virtually all they do.

-Tom

 

[damage]

As for the W800, all I can say is, its X10, is anyone developing X10 inferfaces anymore? Is anyone buying X10 interfaces? I looked at the spec and it says its an X10 serial device so if its X10 compliant it should act just like a CM11a.

you should read some of the 700 posts on here mentioning w800 or the 600 others mentioning ds10a (there's also ~500 posts mentioning w800 and ds10a on homeseer.com) to see that people are buying these and what they are using them for. there are w800 drivers for homeseer, elve, premise, xPL, xAP, misterhouse, housebot, girder...

you HAL guys really should get out more (beyond the confines of the AL message board). there's a lot of cross pollinating from users of all sorts of HA packages that goes on here and a lot of great ideas come out of it.

 

[SteveL]

I would have to agree with Tom. The ISY has been adopted on various levels by ELK, Home Seer, mControl, various iPhone apps and others. They understand link and database process of INSTEON very well and they make thing very easy to get a third party application to communicate with INSTEON.
The developers kit is $199 and to date I have not charged anyone for support even though we do have a page that breaks down support costs. If the developers program had a $10,000 buy in than there would be alot more one on one support.

Since I do not watch this board regulary you can contact me through the INSTEON.net website.

I just went back and read Dan's post. I have been the development contact for three years now and have worked with many companies to support their INSTEON development. I have always responded to any email I recieve. I will admit that I do not monitor or post on our developers forum but for those who know me I have been very responsive with questions that have been asked through our INSTEON info email.

SteveL
Smartlabs

 

[JimMcGowanInlet]

FYI looks like the W800 is already in the current Beta and should make it in the next release of HAL. I havent found out which of the W800's is being tested yet. I see a 16 bit and a 32 bit on the WGL WEB site. Might be 1 or might be both. One thing I didn't realize about the W800, but most of you probably already know.... The W800 cannot send X10, it only recieves X10, so in HAL it must be setup as a sensor and not a controler. If you want to control X10 devices you will still need a supported X10 controler.

I'm sure AL will look into the ISY but IMHO, it may not be added due to its cost and the fact it mimics alot of what HAL does already with the PLM. HAL does allow the user full control of all Insteon link records. This was specifically done to allow users to tweak the link records manualy since alot of the Insteon devices are Non Compliant and some fields are undocumented. HAL also has the ability to globaly remove and recreate link records by serial number for all modules in HAL's device list. There a a bunch more link management features that Im not sure Im allowed to disclose yet.

 

[kurelgyer]

Seven months later and HAL still has not released anything. The once anticipated next version has been in development for over two years. They are down to 200 active users on the message board. Only a couple of threads are anywhere near active. Most have not been commented on in months. They seem to be dying a horribly slow death. Someone should call it... It just kills me to go there and see what once was a vibrant, active community reduced to 2 or 3 beta testers hanging on, but not much else. I used to be a huge fan. Seemed to all start going down hill around the time Greg Orr separated from the company. Wonder what happened to him?...

I took your advice, Dan. Set up an ISY 6 months ago. It is awesome! The message board at Universal Devices is very active. Michel and Rand are great! I'd go so far as saying that I've learned a thing or two about communication from Michel.

+1 for the ISY! (That's me pretending I've received my Google+ invitation...)

 

[codemonkey]

For what it's worth, I get a new build of HAL 5.0 about every 30 days. From what I can tell, some of the developers are doing so on a part time basis. So their primary jobs come first. I don't blame people for bashing, I know I would too if I didn't see the work. It's really good work!
I think that if they had full time coding on a few modules (INSTEON being one of them) they could probably knock out a finished product in a few weeks. But it seems that they are only getting a few dedicated days here and there. This means that the guy working on things needs to spend a day working out where they left off and what they were working on.

Anyways, that's the update, take it for what it is worth. Me, well I am very glad that I have access to the beta's.
And I am still glad that I chose Insteon for my home.

CodeMonkey

 

[jeffx]

FYI, still waiting on the release of 5.0

 

[Teken]

LOL, its not coming out . . . Nobody who is serious, would allow their application sit and idle for 7 years! Call a spade a spade, brutal development and service, the end . . .

Teken . . .