Insteon Devices and Houselinc Software

[Digger]

I started using the Houselinc Software today. I figured it might help me troubleshoot my reliability probelms. It was able to detect all of my device (eventually) and even two that I dont even own (I have no clue unless they are the signalincs). Interestingly enough the Serial Powerlinc hooked to the ELK does not show up in Houselinc.

Anyway I have been experimenting and noticed that I can check the staus of the devices individually and when I query them I get the status (on/off etc) or it says it cant communicate with the device. I can keep trying and trying and eventually Houselinc sees the device and then later it wont anymore.

I know everyone is probably thinking noise but the one switch (Kitchen) is literally 6 inhes or less and on the same circuit as another device (Living Room) that never has a communication problem so far. So if I can get to the living room why cant it repeat the signal 6 more inches on the same circuit to the kitchen switch?

Maybe Smartlabs Mike or someone else has a logical explanation? It is possible that there is a reason this is happening I just cant figure it out.

 

[gregoryx]

I've got two different PLCs plugged in to outlets in the same room - both shut off if I hit the breaker - but one is 100% reliable with HouseLinc and the other is not. I haven't taken any time to diagnose it; I was just glad to have one 100% reliable. I did swap PLCs and it followed the outlet.

 

[fitzpatri8]

Am I to understand that the PLC is having trouble talking to *all* your devices, or just the kitchen light?

If the answer is all, then I would look closely at the environment where the PLC is plugged in. A nearby UPS or power supply or the PC's own switching power supply might be trashing your signals or flooding the line with noise. If you've got a 25 or 50' grounded extension cord, you can use it for diagnosis by plugging the PLC into it and plugging it into another outlet somewhere else in the house (away from the UPS/PC) to see if you get consistent communications.

If the problem is just the kitchen light, then I'd look closely at that branch of the circuit for fixtures producing lots of noise or for bad wiring connections.

For the record, HouseLinc is the easiest program for setting up device links, but Power-Home is the best for Insteon diagnostic purposes. That program keeps track of signal ACKs and NAKs and generates a nice little report that is very handy for figuring out troublesome intermittent issues.

Tom

 

[Digger]

I have always had switches that failed to turn on or off or failed to link. Using the houselinc I was able to see that my troublesome switches are not always seen.

I have two PLC's (one on the computer and one on the ELK) and the problems with the switches seem to be identical so far. That being said I dont think its the PLC's (I could be wrong).

My example is that if two switches are on the same circuit and they are 6 inches away from each other and I can almost 100% of the time communicate with the one and less than 50% of the time communicate with the other the second switch must be bad??? If the first switch sees the command for the second switch and repeats it shouldn't it make it 6 more inches since its repeated?

I agree that houselinc is easy to use for linking. It was a worthwhile investment. Even with the houselinc I have switches that wont link (just a few) so I think I will have to exchange them since tapping and the houselinc dont work. Those are easy enough to justify exchanging but switches that work sometimes and not others are more difficult to prove to SH to exchange. Tomorrow I will turn of the entire house except that circuit and use my laptop and the PLC on that circuit and see if it wants to communicate. Then I will put an incandescent bulb only on the load side etc.

I am just tired of installing switches. Some of them have been replaced 3 or 4 times in a year or so since I started with Insteon (my garage, den and kitchen switches). I have a pile (8 or 10) of switches that dont want to work for one reason or another. SH wanted me to re-install them for troubleshooting over the phone and I am just not in the mood to spend a day on the phone with them. I only own about 30 or 35 devices in total since I only have that many switches in my house.

 

[fitzpatri8]

If you have multiple switches that won't link, there is something in your house's electrical environment (a switching power supply, an appliance, a bad pole transformer, Nikola Tesla's experiments running on the neighbor's electric...) that is out-shouting your Insteon signals.

No matter how many times you change the tires, it just won't fix your broken wiper blades.

 

[Digger]

If you have multiple switches that won't link, there is something in your house's electrical environment (a switching power supply, an appliance, a bad pole transformer, Nikola Tesla's experiments running on the neighbor's electric...) that is out-shouting your Insteon signals.

I would agree except when I replace the switch the new one will link. Same place, same circuit, same load just a new switch 15 minutes later. But my luck being the way it is the one that now links will die in 6 months :lol: Its happened to me once already.

I tried taking the first one and putting it elswehere once and it still didnt link.

To me the switches seem bad.

I will replace the kitchen switch tomorrow. If the new one works in that location then I will feel that the switch in their now is bad. If the new one doesn't then there very well may be a problem. Its hard to accept that since 6 inches away on the same circuit another switch works fine.

Do you know how hard it is to explain all of this to SH tech support who seem to be working off of a flowchart? I had a dead switch once from a static discharge. The support guy had me make sure the breaker was on, the light bulb was good etc. It took almost 40 minutes or so to go through th motions only to determine the switch was dead. I even went as far as tieing the black and red leads together to make the light go on (bypassing the switch) and he still didtn accept that the switch was bad (technically it could have been an open neutral on the switch but he never even went there so I guess thats not on his chart). I knew it was static since I was the one that blew it up and felt the discharge.

I think the Insteon concept is great and I am putting a lot of effort into making this work mainly through the process of elimination etc lately.

 

[Herdfan]

SH wanted me to re-install them for troubleshooting over the phone and I am just not in the mood to spend a day on the phone with them.

Back when I was replacing switches and SH wanted to do the dog and pony show, I built a small test panel. I have a drill cord going into a covered box and from that box I have 4 legs. I can wire switches to those legs and test them all SH wants. Plus it is easy to connect/disconnect them.

About $10 in parts and I had a 2x2 piece of plywood.

 

[Digger]

Back when I was replacing switches and SH wanted to do the dog and pony show, I built a small test panel. I have a drill cord going into a covered box and from that box I have 4 legs. I can wire switches to those legs and test them all SH wants. Plus it is easy to connect/disconnect them.

About $10 in parts and I had a 2x2 piece of plywood.

I did something similar with a 3 gang box. 2 switches and an outlet all on the same circuit. It actually had a line cord to plug it in different circuits in the house. When I could not link two switches in the same box trying different circuits I tossed them in the bad pile.

 

[Digger]

I swapped out the kitchen switch on Friday and ever since then its worked fine. One day or so is not true representation of reliability but its a good start for now.
But with the kids home and all of the tv's, computers etc going as well as all of the CFL's at night I would expect to still see problems if its noise.

Time (and experimenting) will tell.

BTW the houselinc software works fine. Its more limited in capabilities as far as automation than I thought it would be but for what it is its fine.