Insteon Extended Messaging

I must say my 60 insteon devices installed so far work far more reliably and faster than the 10 or so X10 devices and powerphase bridge that I had in before. (4300 sq ft house with extra 1900 ft garage 70 ft away). With Insteon I don't need to use polling since power-home remembers the status of devices linked to the PLC and I have all devices cross-linked to the PLC.

As a consumer my only problems with functionality not up to what could be expected from the advertising are the following:
blinking lights -- fixed with free swap out
blinking keypadlinc buttons -- fixed with free swap out.
KPL 1.0 forgetting its settings on power outage -- fixed with free swapout
Unfortunately for many consumers this would require an electrician.
Otherwise I think they have delivered on what they promised consumer vision of this product.

My biggest issues are as a developer:
SDK Documentation is way out of date and very incomplete.
Sample code mostly lacking - nothing was ever provided to excercise anything more than the most basic functionality. Nothing was provided to prove the different apis worked so we got to find out by trial and error what didn't. (caused me to not release any code to avoid the frustrations with trying to support it).
There is no clear change map about which issues exist in which devices,
there is no guidance about how old devices are to be handled as changes occur,
Extended messaging is still in the docs but doesn't work (there are slow work arounds).
There are other missing items in the api that really should have been there for automation. (such as direct read or write of KPL button status, or that automations software should have been able to set local on level and ramp rate, etc).

If Insteon/smarthome would update their docs and sdk for the developer and would provide clear guidance to the consumer/integrator/ and developers on change logs and future swap out plans I think alot of this worry could be avoided.
 
As a developer I think I am more accepting of the faults Insteon has than as a consumer. From a developers point of view I see this as a beta product, still working out it's bugs. And as such I would never recommend a consumer spend thousands of dollars to fill a house with these.

As a consumer I have issues with (on top of the ones you mentioned):


  • Completely unreliable group communication (no issues with individual commands)
  • Signallinc strength, they are not trivial to place, I would prefer a hardwired solution to bridging
  • Slow/buggy programming of links, orphaned links etc. (Bring on extended messaging).

As noted by the fixes you mention, they are working on it, and I think they'll get there eventually.
 
upstatemike said:
I think the major advantage of extended messaging will be in polling devices for status. Right now polling is not practical because the response from the devices takes so long to transmit that even a moderate installation cannot be polled in a reasonable amount of time.

Extended messaging will not help polling for status. Ideally you shouldn't need to poll, once everything is linked to the PLC(s) properly. Put it should work find today. Status messages are not implemented though, maybe that is what you are refering to.

Extended messaging will help with managing the link tables. Right now it is two peeks and 8 pokes to write a link to a switch and 9 peeks to read a single link. With extended messaging this drops to one or two commands per link, maybe less. This will relieve a huge burden on the developers, especially if smarthome can swap these out such that the old method no longer has to be supported.

The burden to manage links is painful right now, and requires lots of extra coding to get around it. Also, I believe a lot of developers skip this to prevent long delays and this is a hit on reliability. I have written my own link management program and believe me it is tempting to skip verification to prevent a user from having to wait minutes for a response.

Also, extended messaging could open up a lot of features for other types of devices that would need to transfer more than a byte of information. This would be a big step forward to reaching SH's goals of having other vendors adopt the protocol.
 
I think I would feel better with devices where the full protocol is implemented so I'm going to start unistalling stuff right now and getting it ready to exchange.

Upstatemike - so what have you decided to do - exchange now or not? I have a large install with a large number of flickering loads and am trying to decide whether to exchange now or if there is a reason (like extended messaging or other firmware updates) that would justify putting it off for a bit. Any new thoughts?
 
dbaustin said:
I think I would feel better with devices where the full protocol is implemented so I'm going to start unistalling stuff right now and getting it ready to exchange.

Upstatemike - so what have you decided to do - exchange now or not? I have a large install with a large number of flickering loads and am trying to decide whether to exchange now or if there is a reason (like extended messaging or other firmware updates) that would justify putting it off for a bit. Any new thoughts?
Unfortunately there is still too much "pending" stuff to really decide where to go from here. I have a lot of flickering keypads and I don't want to change them more than once more. Some of the things I am waiting to play out include:

-Will UPB offer a switch with a separate setup switch instead of the 5 paddle presses? This would pave the way for no delay local control and might cause me to jump over to UPB.

-What will be included in the new version of PowerHome? The ability to set local ramp rates and view and manage X-10 addresses? This might make me want to stick with Insteon for awhile longer.

-What will happen with extended messaging? Will it enable new killer features rendering all my existing Insteon gear obsolete? This might annoy me enough to move to UPB.

-Will Smarthome offer to exchange obsolete stuff if to enable new killer features? I would likely stick with Insteon then despite the trouble of swapping stuff out.

-Will RoZetta make using Insteon with legacy devices like Stargate simple and reliable? If yes then I will focus on making Insteon work.

-Will UPB switches come down in price and add some light bar options and stuff? If so I might lean more towards UPB.

-Will large software programs like Homeseer and HAL get to the point where their Insteon interfaces are full featured and bug free? If so then that would be an argument for Insteon.

-Will Smarthome ever ship a wall mount bracket for the ControLinc (as promised on the box of every ControLinc sold)? If not I might dump Insteon on the basis of false advertising.

-Will UPB come out with an active repeater? This might make UPB so reliable that it becomes the new de facto lighting protocol standard.

-Will somebody create a way to send Insteon commands through xPL? (maybe using the EZBridge somehow) This would be a good argument to stick with Insteon.

Hopefully the answers to some of these questions will be revealed in the coming weeks.
 
Hey Mike,

Don't rule out Z-Wave. Since I replaced all of my (12) INSTEON wall units with Z-Wave, nothing has flickered or buzzed or got too hot or needed to be returned for an upgrade or deprogrammed itself.

I have read a few posts where people, who have multi story houses, have had problems with one brand of Z-Wave device (ACT).

Z-Wave costs about twice as much as INSTEON. After my INSTEON experience, I was glad to pay the extra price for a product that worked 100%.

I am still using my INSTEON plugin dimmer and appliance modules. I just got tired of ripping things out my wall for upgrades.


ken
 
At this stage I'm not ruling anything out (or in). I'm kind of back where I was a little over a year ago when I was going to dump all my automation and just use Leviton stand-alone motion sensors. Still might.

Or I might go with a wireless FS20 based system as described HERE. (Scroll down past the weather station info)
 
Is there any new information about extended messaging?
Has it ever been confirmed (implied in an earlier post) that the latest Keypadlincs already support extended messaging? I just replaced my PLC with a unit that supposedly supports extended messaging (2.13). Now I am wondering where exactly we stand on this issue.

Jim H.
 
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