Insteon reliability these days

[oberkc]

Is it naive to assume that since this is a brand new builder construction that I will have less issues with the way the AC power is installed

 Make sure they install neutrals at each location.  But, in general, the way the AC power is "installed" should not be an issue.
 
More likely to be an issue are the devices and appliances you have in your house.  Being a new or old house does not matter here.
 
Insteon, becoming more dual powerline/RF has become better at surviving in a noisy powerline condition, but I am not convinced it solves all the problems.
 

I find it hard to recommend any powerline communications technology as you just don't know the exact environment of someone's system.  I've read many, many posts here and there are good and bad situations involving X-10, Insteon, and UPB, all related to noise, coupling between phases, and loss of signal across the home.

 
 
RF is a pretty busy space, as well.  I am not convinced it is any better than powerline.  Both can be made to work pretty well if you are willing to accept the risk of having to work at it a bit.  Ultimately, dedicated wiring is likely the most reliable type of system, but most of us don't want to go through the work of adding them, so we trade off a bit of reliability for convenience.

 

[ClemsonJeeper]

Great responses.
 
Isn't the point of dual-band Insteon so that if the signal fails with powerline it falls back to RF?
 
I would likely only be buying dual band devices when possible.

 

[oberkc]

Isn't the point of dual-band Insteon so that if the signal fails with powerline it falls back to RF?

I don't know whether RF is backup to powerline, or an equal-but-redundant communication path.  Whatever you call it, the answer is probably "yes".

 

[apostolakisl]

Great responses.
 
Isn't the point of dual-band Insteon so that if the signal fails with powerline it falls back to RF?
 
I would likely only be buying dual band devices when possible.

 
Dual band helps a lot and now with all the common devices being pretty much only available in dual band, you can't help but have lots of them.  But as mentioned it is not a panacea.  It certainly makes joining the two phases of the house a non-issue since it just ends up happening by default.  Why exactly it is not a panacea, I am not sure, cause it sort of seems like it should be.  But my experience with dual band is having about 10 of my 60 devices as such.  Not sure if things would be different if it were more like 50 of the 60.

 

[wuench]

Yeah it doesn't seem to be truly two communication paths.  It's no zwave.   If I had to guess I would say the issue is with the 3 hop limit (which is insteons version of loop control).  All I know is stuff don't work, and AP's don't help but filtering on that circuit does.  So powerline seems to take precedence, and powerline issues still cause issues.  I do however have a wireless water sensor and it does fine.  If only there was a way to disable the powerline communication I might be better off....

 

[ChrisCicc]

I would be careful buying from dealers.  Unless something has changed, if you didn't buy it from smarthome directly, then they don't service the warranty.  You would have to go back to whoever you bought from.  Maybe not such a big deal now that my devices aren't failing, but I sure was happy to be able to ship them all back to SH and get all new replacements back 3 or 4 years ago.

 
I think they probably just wanted the dealer to come check it out to ensure it wasn't an issue they could fix, but INSTEON does warranty all products no matter where you buy them. I can't imagine Amazon.com or BestBuy being responsible for handling warranty replacements and tech support
 

Is it naive to assume that since this is a brand new builder construction that I will have less issues with the way the AC power is installed?

 
Not at all! Not only should you have less issues, your home is under warranty, so you can have your electricians there until they figure out what's wrong. I did an install in one of my test homes, which was a brand new build, and the electrician had cross wired a ground in the panel, causing enough noise to take out the whole bedroom. He spent an hour looking at everything, was convinced it was faulty devices, didn't believe it was anything he did, eventually I convinced him to open the breaker panel, and it was fixed in five minutes.
 
I've also installed a 6,500 sq. ft. home and the only issues I had were figuring out the convoluted 4 and 5-way wiring schemes the electricians used, not anything with noise or reliability. This home also has several pieces of industrial equipment (compressors) you wouldn't find in a typical home, and they have caused no issues.
 
With the 60,000 sq. ft. home I mentioned earlier, the embassy, a massive warehouse, and many others, INSTEON has proven time and again to be reliable and simple to use. 

 

[ChrisCicc]

Yeah it doesn't seem to be truly two communication paths.  It's no zwave.   If I had to guess I would say the issue is with the 3 hop limit (which is insteons version of loop control).  All I know is stuff don't work, and AP's don't help but filtering on that circuit does.  So powerline seems to take precedence, and powerline issues still cause issues.  I do however have a wireless water sensor and it does fine.  If only there was a way to disable the powerline communication I might be better off....

 
That 3-hop "limit" is a misnomer, since the range of INSTEON is so much greater than that of Z-Wave.

 

[apostolakisl]

I think they probably just wanted the dealer to come check it out to ensure it wasn't an issue they could fix, but INSTEON does warranty all products no matter where you buy them. I can't imagine Amazon.com or BestBuy being responsible for handling warranty replacements and tech support

 
 
This would have to be new in the last couple years then.  Every warranty return I had with SH required an invoice on SH's system to match it with.  No invoice, no return.  I bought a number of devices from someone else who had uninstalled them from his house, and he had to call to get the RMA, no exceptions were allowed.  It had to be an invoice from SH.  
 
Since they now sell at big box stores, perhaps they will accept a receipt from BB.  I did make a return from an Amazon purchase, but that was SH's store front on Amazon, not an outside entity.  

 

[ChrisCicc]

This would have to be new in the last couple years then.  Every warranty return I had with SH required an invoice on SH's system to match it with.  No invoice, no return.  I bought a number of devices from someone else who had uninstalled them from his house, and he had to call to get the RMA, no exceptions were allowed.  It had to be an invoice from SH.  
 
Since they now sell at big box stores, perhaps they will accept a receipt from BB.  I did make a return from an Amazon purchase, but that was SH's store front on Amazon, not an outside entity.  

 
Isn't that the same as every company? Without an invoice, they can't verify the purchase date...

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Chris... S L O W down and read the message.
 
He stated that the invoice HAD to be from SmartHome's system (i.e. an invoice from a dealer would not suffice!).  This is not the first time I have heard of this problem.

 

[ChrisCicc]

Chris... S L O W down and read the message.
 
He stated that the invoice HAD to be from SmartHome's system (i.e. an invoice from a dealer would not suffice!).  This is not the first time I have heard of this problem.

 
My interpretation was because he bought them not from a dealer, but from the owner the dealer sold them to, he needed the owner he bought them from to process the RMA, as he had a valid invoice in the system that Lou did not. I personally had to do the same with a Dell monitor I bought on Craigslist. My apologies if I misinterpreted it. 
 
That said, I met with INSTEON personally this week, and with the push to retail, they are really trying to make INSTEON a household name, so I wouldn't expect issues like this going forward. 

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Ah, I see.  I don't think that is the case though as I remember others mentioned this problem as well in the past (maybe Lou can clarify).

 

[pete_c]

Personally I did not have any issues returning my defective Insteon switches back to Smarthome many years ago. 
 
The replacements did OK but then also started to fail.    The older (much older) Leviton X-10 switches were just fine; where I didn't ever need to touch them.  They just worked.  When I removed the X10 switches it was only to update the switches; they were functioning just fine.  I never really had any issues.  Later (early 2000's) went to using the XTB amplifier and it worked well for me.
 
I went to using the Insteon and communicated with them both with X10 via my HAI panel and Insteon via my Homeseer automation software.  It was by default the best way for me to update and upgrade my setup; the idea of a device which functioned with the old and the new was very good.
 
Personally an issue; but not really was that all my gang boxes and covers are metal.  Not really totally sure what in fact they would do to the RF; never really checked.
.

 

[apostolakisl]

Ah, I see.  I don't think that is the case though as I remember others mentioned this problem as well in the past (maybe Lou can clarify).

 
They flat out told me that they had to have an invoice from them to match a return to.  And they kept track.  So if I bought 10 V3.4 switchlinks, and had already returned 10 on previous RMA's then I couldn't return another one.  
 
Even though they were giving 7 year warranty on the item and the manufacture date was only 3 years prior.  
 
But I have not returned anything to smart home in over 3 years. So who knows.  And I have to give some credence to the notion that a store like BB would not be willing to do warranty work for SH, so probably this rule has changed to some extent.
 
My last thought would still be to buy direct from SH.  Unless you really feel comfortable with an independent dealer and are getting something for it that you wouldn't get from SH.

 

[az1324]

You could fax/email in receipts from authorized dealers and they did honor the warranty replacement on those.