Integrated Video, Alarm and Lock Management - A Pipe Dream?

[PLCGuy]

I am looking for any suggestions for an integrated Video, Alarm, Lighting and Lock Management solution. I thought this would be easy to find, but so far I have struck out.

What I would like is a system with the ability to view/manage security cameras from the same panel keypad panel used for alarm control. And it would be nice to manage the locks from the same panel.

The use case is pretty straight forward - if the alarm system is indicating that there is activity in an area where there shouldn't be, then the camera there should be the primary view point and should be in full recording mode. And it would be nice to be able to see the status of the door locks in the area. And I would like the home owner to do all this from a single panel.

Or another use case - if the home owner is wishing to close and lock the garage door remotely, it would be nice to automatically bring up the video camera for that area to see if there is anything in the door area that might prevent the door from closing.

A final example - imagine that there is an entry gate with a key pad for entry by owner along with a voice/video intercom to let guest in from the house. It would be nice if a visitor pressing the intercom button at the gate would activate the lights and cameras in the area. Plus allowing the gate to open would also trigger the appropriate
pathway lighting.

Now I thought this would be simple, but when I look at alarm, video, lighting and access management products these all seem to be in their own world. YesI can supply separate products and then write some drivers over to share system status over either RS232 or Ethernet/HTTP (or with hardwired I/O like the SmartHome's INSTEON Remote Control Door Strike Kit - http://www.smarthome.com/51901/I-O-Linc-INSTEON-Remote-Control-Door-Strike-Kit/p.aspx - they have to be kidding). But this all seems like a bit of a kludge. And it means multiple panels on the wall, something that isn't all that attractive. Right now design for the main entry includes the DCS keypad, a video system monitor, a gate intercom/entry lock control master station and an Insteon lighting keypad (at least the last one is small).

Now Insteon seems to have reasonable lighting control but zero lock integration (except for the MorningLinc which is very limited). And entry key pads for Insteon don't seem to exist. Zwave gives me lighting and lock integration, but no alarm or video integration. Checking alarm systems like Elk and DCS, I see mention of security video on the website, but no product (At least the Insteon ISY99 will talk to the Elk). Video and Access control seems to be on its own planet. Am I missing something?

Ideally I would like a integrated control solution (which could be separate controllers like an Elk M1 and ISY99 that at least talk directly) so I can integrate events like lock key pad presses with video and lighting actions. And I would like a single owner view panel so they are not jumping from screen to screen (or iPad app to iPad app) to get a task like opening a gate and providing lighting completed.

Any suggestions?

 

[Neurorad]

Doesn't the HAI OPII do all that?

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[tmbrown97]

First off, it's all doable - but I'll absolutely admit that the apps off-the-shelf won't give you the really nice screens you're after - for that you'll need software. I bought Elve to handle the screens so I can customize them - you'll never find a panel that lets you totally customize the screens without running a server somewhere.

That said - everything else you talked about - I could accomplish with my M1. For instance, with the right inputs and outputs/relays, I can activate door latches and gate openers and garage door open/close; and with inputs I can detect the status of each... with z-wave integration or better yet, true strikes, I can handle the door locks. With UPB integration and some rules, I can turn on pathway lights based on an intercom press (today I do if off a doorbell or door opening after the exterior lights have turned off). You could even integrate with a vehicle sensor so that when a person approaches the gate/intercom station, it lights the area up (also providing the best camera view!). For the keypads, because of distance and Elk keypad probably wouldn't work, but anything integrated with a Wiegand interface or even the gate's own native controller with some secure outputs to the Elk would do the trick.

The weak point is the user interface on the mobile platform - for that there's nothing off-the-shelf that'll just do it the way you envision, but there are plenty of software-based solutions that let you customize the screens - I'd bet using them you'd be able to accomplish your goals... the main ones are CQC, HomeSeer and Elve. There's Premise (free/powerful) but I don't think the UI on a mobile device will handle what you need - I think you need a dedicated mobile app.

It's all overwhelming at first, but the more you learn the flexibility of each system, the more you'll realize the weaknesses of the different options and the workarounds, and the 20 different ways to accomplish your end goals maximizing the strengths and working around the weaknesses of each of the systems.

 

[dgage]

I saw a commercial for Comcast's Xfinity Security and Automation and that has such a nice interface and "seems" fully integrated but it probably falls down with whole home audio/video. Having recently started into the home automation realm and joining this great forum, I have been struck over the head by what Work2Play said. Knowing technology, I thought there would be a nice, fully integrated solution but there isn't. HA seems to be more of a home technology (I hesitate to call it technology it moves so slow) where things are installed and not touched for years or decades. Also, the more advanced systems that cover the full spectrum are usually expensive and require (STRONGLY suggest) you use a professional implementer.

If you like to tinker, learn, and play then you can do everything as Work2Play mentioned but you will have to be the glue that puts it together. Or look at something like Crestron for a fully automated solution. There is also Control4 for the entry expensive but I have read too many complaints about it to even suggest it but I'm sure there are many completely happy with that solution as well.

David

 

[picta]

I am looking for any suggestions for an integrated Video, Alarm, Lighting and Lock Management solution.

Any suggestions?

HAI omniPro2 can do all that. You can use their snaplink app for mobile devices or a separate app called Haiku for access to all features from iphone/ipad. Haiku does push notifications, so it can pop a camera screen on your ipad when someone rings the door.

 

[tmbrown97]

I agree that there aren't enough off-the-shelf methods for this yet, but there are some who are entering into that market... like alarm.com or even ADT is trying to put together packages that do video, temperature controls, gate/garage control, all from a mobile app. I personally usually veer away from those because those are more paid services than purchased equipment.

As said above - there are more complete packages that people sell, and there are some pros out there that sell/install HAI and Elk professionally too, so they can be counted as real systems with the installer being the "glue" - but there's no clear leader yet in the space where everything just works together.

Another solution - I don't know anything about it, but it's worth looking into: http://www.milehighautomation.com/nimbus/overview/ MileHighAutomation has recently started contributing here so if you have questions they may be able to help or show some samples.

 

[PLCGuy]

Doesn't the HAI OPII do all that?

Maybe I'm missing something.

I looked at HAI's Omni Pro products, and while the site mentions video, the manual doesn't (OmniPro II Owner's Manual, Rev. 3.2). And HAI's integration of Zwave locks seems like an after thought - possible, but messy as described in this post HAI, 2 x Yale zwave locks and VRCOP RF+3 integration (again nothing in the manuals).

Perhaps it is me who is missing something... :wacko:

 

[PLCGuy]

First off, it's all doable - but I'll absolutely admit that the apps off-the-shelf won't give you the really nice screens you're after - for that you'll need software. I bought Elve to handle the screens so I can customize them - you'll never find a panel that lets you totally customize the screens without running a server somewhere...

It's all overwhelming at first, but the more you learn the flexibility of each system, the more you'll realize the weaknesses of the different options and the workarounds, and the 20 different ways to accomplish your end goals maximizing the strengths and working around the weaknesses of each of the systems.

Thanks for this - I hadn't looked at Elve before, but it looks promising. Their list of approved hardware doesn't mention video cameras though. What are you using for that and how are you controlling them? Now I am no security camera expert, so maybe this is a simple interface.

 

[wuench]

You are right, the technology isn't as simple as it should be. A lot of the platforms we talk about here antiquated from a technology standpoint. Software packages like CQC, Elve, HS, etc fill the gap but require a lot of development to tie the pieces together. The alternative is to go with something like a crestron and have someone do all of the development for you and pay the price.

The problem with this industry is there are too many devices and too many proprietary standards. Everyone is trying to lock it in with patents and closed software. Everytime something new comes out all the work has to be duplicated for each platform. It is maddening.... The first company or group that figures out how to produce an open platform with open software is going to come out on top. All these vendors with their closed mindedness means they will forever be relegated to their small piece of the pie. An open platform can grab it all.

This community is the best one I have found for HA, and the whole CT April Fool's Platform still lingers in my dreams. If we could muster the resources here to start an open platform, I am sure some vendor would pick it up eventually. Maybe give us all real jobs doing what we love. Given the combined electrical engineering and programming expertise here, I think we could pull it off, with hardware platforms like Ardruino and Raspberri Pi and sites like Kickstarter to raise funds to produce niche hardware or maybe we could team up with some other efforts.... (and we could call it Fool )

 

[picta]

I looked at HAI's Omni Pro products, and while the site mentions video, the manual doesn't (OmniPro II Owner's Manual, Rev. 3.2). And HAI's integration of Zwave locks seems like an after thought - possible, but messy as described in this post HAI, 2 x Yale zwave locks and VRCOP RF+3 integration (again nothing in the manuals).

Perhaps it is me who is missing something... :wacko:

If you want video with Hai, they have 2 products: omnitouch with video and a video-hub. HAI also has very solid line of access control products with access readers and a keypad. If you want to use a z-wave lock, it will be less secure solution than the true wired access control. You may take a look at Vera, it is less sophisticated but still does all what you want on a basic level and integrates with zwave locks.

 

[PLCGuy]

If you want video with Hai, they have 2 products: omnitouch with video and a video-hub. HAI also has very solid line of access control products with access readers and a keypad. If you want to use a z-wave lock, it will be less secure solution than the true wired access control. You may take a look at Vera, it is less sophisticated but still does all what you want on a basic level and integrates with zwave locks.

Thanks for the direction to the OmniTouch video. I will look at that.

Regarding locks, We are certainly not married to Zwave - any suggestions for good hardwired locks, especially ones with keypads? I realize that I could use the HAI keypad and electric strikes, but an open to other possibilities, especially since I am not sure HAI is the route I want to follow.

 

[drvnbysound]

Thanks for the direction to the OmniTouch video. I will look at that.

Regarding locks, We are certainly not married to Zwave - any suggestions for good hardwired locks, especially ones with keypads? I realize that I could use the HAI keypad and electric strikes, but an open to other possibilities, especially since I am not sure HAI is the route I want to follow.

Speaking of electric strikes...

First off, it's all doable - but I'll absolutely admit that the apps off-the-shelf won't give you the really nice screens you're after - for that you'll need software. I bought Elve to handle the screens so I can customize them - you'll never find a panel that lets you totally customize the screens without running a server somewhere.

That said - everything else you talked about - I could accomplish with my M1. For instance, with the right inputs and outputs/relays, I can activate door latches and gate openers and garage door open/close; and with inputs I can detect the status of each... with z-wave integration or better yet, true strikes, I can handle the door locks. With UPB integration and some rules, I can turn on pathway lights based on an intercom press (today I do if off a doorbell or door opening after the exterior lights have turned off). You could even integrate with a vehicle sensor so that when a person approaches the gate/intercom station, it lights the area up (also providing the best camera view!). For the keypads, because of distance and Elk keypad probably wouldn't work, but anything integrated with a Wiegand interface or even the gate's own native controller with some secure outputs to the Elk would do the trick.

The weak point is the user interface on the mobile platform - for that there's nothing off-the-shelf that'll just do it the way you envision, but there are plenty of software-based solutions that let you customize the screens - I'd bet using them you'd be able to accomplish your goals... the main ones are CQC, HomeSeer and Elve. There's Premise (free/powerful) but I don't think the UI on a mobile device will handle what you need - I think you need a dedicated mobile app.

It's all overwhelming at first, but the more you learn the flexibility of each system, the more you'll realize the weaknesses of the different options and the workarounds, and the 20 different ways to accomplish your end goals maximizing the strengths and working around the weaknesses of each of the systems.

Can you elaborate on what strikes you would recommend as a residentail/wired solution?

 

[tmbrown97]

I'm afraid I'm not the best person to ask; I've worked with ones installed by locksmiths and the circuitry is generally very straightforward, but I haven't done enough to recommend a brand. I'm sure with some time on Google you can find plenty of options though and hopefully the commercial installers can chime in.

 

[PLCGuy]

I'm afraid I'm not the best person to ask; I've worked with ones installed by locksmiths and the circuitry is generally very straightforward, but I haven't done enough to recommend a brand. I'm sure with some time on Google you can find plenty of options though and hopefully the commercial installers can chime in.

Believe me - I have spent enough time on Google on this topic... I also have a background in industrial systems, so I have an idea what is done there. That is why I wrote this post in the first place.

Take electronic locks for example - it is rarely enough to just know if a lock is open or closed. You want to know how it was opened (physical key or remote override or keypad) and if via keypad, which user code was used. It is also nice to know when there are repeated log in failures at a key pad. And if it is a wireless lock with a battery, the state of the battery. High end industrial systems (for example Paxton) make this a matter of course and if you are lucky, so do a few Zwave locks. But for most of the HA systems, it seems that everyone just throws in an electric strike, one DI and one DO and calls it an access management system (Smarthome is the worst for this sort of bad design).

Now to HAI's credit, it appears that they have a properly integrated external key pad that could be used as noted above (thanks to everyone who pointed me towards them.) And the OmniPro might just integrate the full Zwave lock data (beyond simple locked.unlocked status). The fact that their manuals don't seem to mention Zwave locks concern me, but it appears that others have successfully managed a proper integration between Zwave and OPII. Of course an access control system like Paxton will do a great job, but it doesn't integrate to anything as far as I can tell.

Unfortunately, I am worried that HAI is the exception. From what I have seem so far, most of the time integration by lock/access control companies consists of "All programming is accomplished entirely from the front of the keypad. LED and/or sounder guidance makes programming a snap and changing codes a matter of seconds for an authorized user." Great, but that isn't integration - it is a pile of separate keypads acting as local controllers, communicating to a main controller via a single digital outputs. If you have a typical home with a half dozen doors and gates, you will have a management nightmare.

So anyone have any non-HAI examples of full integration? Anyone get an ELK or ISY or XXX controller to talk to an intelligent access keypad (outdoor rated) or even proper access to to a Zwave system so all the variables are accessed? Any pointers are greatly appreciated.

P.S. Thanks to everyone on the suggestions for video integration - those were a big help.

 

[picta]

So anyone have any non-HAI examples of full integration? Anyone get an ELK or ISY or XXX controller to talk to an intelligent access keypad (outdoor rated) or even proper access to to a Zwave system so all the variables are accessed? Any pointers are greatly appreciated.

So what is exactly wrong with HAI example? It has an integrated access system that is suitable for even commercial applications. It will work with hard-wired strikes and deadbolts, that's a standard. Of course that assumes you have a proper wiring to the doors, which is not standard in residential world. So for those cases you'll have to go down a notch and use a battery powered wireless locks, the most common being zwave and zigbee. Or if you can drill through your door, you may even connect that lock to a supervised power source.

I personally find the locks with keypad too industrial looking. My front door has nice bronze handles and the door is locked by a seco-larm electric deadbolt installed inside the door frame. It is hard wired to OP2 and accessed via the keypad that is installed on the side. The deadbolt reports both the door and its own status, and you can do rules based on the user code. I do have zwave locks on the garage and side doors that are not so visible, and they are also integrated with the rest of the system. HAI does not fully implement all functions from the locks but you can get that if you also have a software controller. It will be difficult to find a DIY level HA system that will do everything you want and still be affordable, so the best way would be to use a combination of the hardware and software controllers. The other way is to get a high end system like crestron or control4, it will have all the goodies at a price, but you'll have limited control over it.