Is anyone using Premise Home Control?

[123]

Are there any Cocooners using Motorola's Premise Home Control?

I've spent some time evaluating it and I'm very impressed with the breadth and depth of its features. It's a crying shame that Motorola shelved it, yet very gracious of them to make it freely available.

DESIGN
It uses an object-oriented architecture and contains many objects covering everything from lighting and thermostats to security panels, IP cameras, A/V switchers, DVD players, TVs, automation controllers, and other equipment. The browser-based UI is automatically generated yet fully customizable. Premise Home Control includes drivers for many devices and the ability to extend generic devices to support new equipment.

It has three components:
Premise Server runs as a Windows Service
Premise Service Monitor is a "watchdog" service that monitors the primary service
Premise Builder is used to remotely configure and program the whole system

PROGRAMMING
There are several ways to program Premise ranging from simple to complex:
Scenes
- a collection of devices and what to with them (turn things on/off/dim, increase/decrease temperature, etc)
Macros
- perform a series of actions in a specific sequence
Object Diagrams
- graphical programming using a data-flow diagram
Scripting
- in VBscript; if you write it, it will be done
or you can use a wizard to build a completely new device Class by basing it on a combination of existing Classes (and there are many). The included IDE for VBscript provides Microsoft-style Intellisense plus full debugging (wow)!

AUDIENCE
Originally intended for professionals, nowadays integrators will be turned off by its total lack of formal support and future versions.
However, its many features plus extensibility allow it to be used productively for personal use.

SUPPORT
For DIYers, you can get technical support by browsing the original forum or view the Yahoo group. Unfortunately the latter is mostly full of questions without answers (or spam) and the former no longer accepts new posts. Googling "premise home control" will unearth industry accolades and press releases plus a handful of add-ins written by 3rd parties. The Premise web site offers training in the form of video-tutorials, presentations, and example files.

EXAMPLE
The attached file is a gem from the Premise forum, where a user documented what he accomplished in his home with Premise. Twenty-six pages of UI snapshots showing the integration of lighting, cameras, and A/V.


The only thing that dissuades me from using it is if it contains any show-stopper bugs that make it unreliable.
Is anyone using it and did you encounter any major bugs?

 

[samgreco]

I still use it. Mostly because I still think that the way they handle media management is failry brilliant. The fact that a user that doesn't know the underlying structure of the system, can pick media to play. And as long as there is a device to play it, it plays. No worrying about source, input, amps, etc. So I have 3 "sound card" sources. If I am playing something in the office, my wife can fire up music in the kitchen without having to know anything more than hitting play.

And the object oriented way of assembling your home was excellent as well.

Unfortuantely, I am not a programmer, so I will have to switch soon since most of the UPB devices I am buying are not supported. And as new hardware comes out, the chances of anyone programming drivers is slim to none.

And I find the UI clumsy at best. But it basically works, so I am taking my time deciding on direction.

This is the theme I am currently using. Our house is Mid-Century Modern, so this is what I came up with.

 

[electron]

Actually sounds pretty cool, especially the VBscript part. Guess I will have to take a look at it myself. The screenshots are kind of disappointing, but hopefully those graphics can be customized.

 

[samgreco]

Yeah. It's really rather dated. My guess is that someone with better knowledge than me could figure out how to interface to it with something more flexible. As I understand it, the framework was rather open.

But my programming skills stop at cut 'n paste...

 

[123]

I like the retro-style UI Theme you are using. It doesn't appear to be one of the 15 stock Themes so you must have built your own. I think that qualifies you as being a notch above a programming newbie.

I recall seeing a UPB driver mentioned on the original forum. I assume you mean that it supports a limited (and aging) set of devices?

How is the Premise Server's stability? Did you encounter any notable glitches while using Builder?

The UI is definitely not cutting-edge but I do appreciate the ability to drag an object in Bulder and have the UI generated automatically. Many existing HA applications don't offer a touchpad-friendly UI, let alone one that is generated automatically. Misterhouse generates a browser-based UI automatically; but its appearance is extremely utilitarian ... no disrespect to Utilitarians intended.

I agree that its transparent handling of audio sources impressed me tremendously. I also like how it handles "Play in browser". Using Windows Media Player as the engine, it automagically displays audio-player controls, volume-control, and a visualization window (that can be maximized) in the browser ... all without writing a single line of code! All I had to do was create a Media Folder, point it to my existing music folder, and it was indexed automatically and Premise Server will continuously monitor it for new music. I switched to the browser and, ta-dah, there was my music and the ability to play it within the browser.

Calling all geeks: using virtual devices, Premise allows you to program the operation of a house without having to actually install the physical devices! Builder contains a huge library of virtual devices. Drag the virtual devices to a "watch window' and confirm that when the DVD player is turned on manually, the TV will turn on, the room lights will dim, the thermostat is adjusted accordingly, etc etc. Once fully debugged, you "bind" each virtual device to a physical one via a driver. Turn on the "Port spy" and use it to debug/monitor what is actually transmitted via a physical port. Replaced your TV with a new brand? No problem, just change the binding to the new TV driver and your programming remains unscathed.

The Big Question: would you continue to use it if Motorola released the source-code as part of an Open Source initiative? I think it would attract a larger following and open the doors to the development of new drivers.

 

[123]

... The screenshots are kind of disappointing, but hopefully those graphics can be customized.

The screenshots in the Word document represents how that user developed a custom UI. Premise's default "Windows XP Theme" looks quite different. Compare it to Sam's version and you can see that Builder provides sufficient flexibility to express your creative side. The icons are GIF files and you can substitute them with customized images.

 

[Waynedb]

How is the Premise Server's stability? Did you encounter any notable glitches while using Builder?


The Big Question: would you continue to use it if Motorola released the source-code as part of an Open Source initiative? I think it would attract a larger following and open the doors to the development of new drivers.

I had my Premise server crash on me when I had a motherboard failing(bad Cap problem on a 6 year old PIII 1ghz board ) I replaced it with a mini-ITX Via Epia board and it booted up on the old hard drive, it has been running solid ever since then, about 7 months now no problems.

I think even if Motorola keeps their source code it could still be made to work with most any new hardware if you have the programming skills, I don't have any so I will move to CQC later this year.

 

[123]

...
I had my Premise server crash on me when I had a motherboard failing(bad Cap problem on a 6 year old PIII 1ghz board ) I replaced it with a mini-ITX Via Epia board and it booted up on the old hard drive, it has been running solid ever since then, about 7 months now no problems.
...

Seven months ... sounds reasonably reliable.

Sam, waynedb,
Could you elaborate on how you're using it? Lighting? How many devices and technology? Any AV equipment?

 

[samgreco]

I like the retro-style UI Theme you are using. It doesn't appear to be one of the 15 stock Themes so you must have built your own. I think that qualifies you as being a notch above a programming newbie.

Well, it’s pretty basic. I just replaced a bunch of graphic files in a copied theme and spent endless hours moving them around the screen in builder, constantly refreshing the browser .

I recall seeing a UPB driver mentioned on the original forum. I assume you mean that it supports a limited (and aging) set of devices?

Yeah. I have a few of the HAL switches that Fry’s was selling. They are really SA switches with different firmware. Since the Premise driver seems to need to get manufacturer’s info, it doesn’t recognize them. And any of the new switches won’t be recognized either. But since the system is completely open and the SDK is available, anyone with C++ coding skills can write new drivers. It’s just a limited group of users, let alone users that can code.

How is the Premise Server's stability? Did you encounter any notable glitches while using Builder?

No stability issues at all. The only time I’ve needed to reboot is when I’m messing with it or my wife gets frustrated and keeps pushing buttons. She is very impatient with computers. If something doesn’t respond instantly, she’ll keep clicking the mouse button or poking the touchscreen. Then of course, all of those clicks queue up and suddenly – wham!, it floods the system and something crashes.

The Big Question: would you continue to use it if Motorola released the source-code as part of an Open Source initiative? I think it would attract a larger following and open the doors to the development of new drivers.

Absolutely. I even requested it. I’m the one that got the Yahoo group listed on the Premise forum page. They don’t seem interested in letting it go though. Don’t know if they have plans for it. Seems unlikely.

Sam, waynedb,
Could you elaborate on how you're using it? Lighting? How many devices and technology? Any AV equipment?

My system is minimal right now. I am controlling audio with a Xantech ZPR68-10 with Extender running 10 zones. I have 3 audio outs from my Delta 1010LT running into the Xantech and I’ve reserved one pair for voice stuff, which I’ve not been able to get working .

One Teac AM/FM tuner.

Global Cache GC100-12 sending IR to the tuner currently. Soon I’ll set it up to send IR to my receiver in my living room for that zone.

Around a dozen UPB Switches and a couple of modules. Still a couple of legacy X10 devices.

No security yet.

A little scheduled stuff.

I’ve managed to get SageTV to play on the touchscreen in the kitchen using Premise to switch the input on the Xantech and wake the Sage Client and bring it forward. When I’m done with it, I put Sage back to sleep and the Premise browser id back in front. Kludgy, but it works.

I think even if Motorola keeps their source code it could still be made to work with most any new hardware if you have the programming skills, I don't have any so I will move to CQC later this year.

And this is where I think I’m headed. Although I won’t be doing it soon. Too much on my plate right now. But if the frustrations mount, it could be accelerated .

 

[123]

Sam,

Thanks for taking the time to provide a detailed response!

Honestly, I have not spent much time looking at CQC, owing to sticker shock, yet I do appreciate Dean's philosophy (although I may be paraphrasing what he wrote) that the availability of drivers will make or break the HA app ... and driver-development doesn't come cheap.

I haven't found Premise to lack anything in the way of architecture, vision and ingenuity but Motorola's decision to offload driver-development to the manufacturers (like Microsoft with Windows) was overeaching their clout in the industry. The availability of a driver SDK is fantastic but, as you indicated, beyond the means of the majority of DIYers.

Releasing their code to the public would put Motorola in the ranks of other large benfactors who have done the same (like IBM). I think it would attract software developers with a desire to write code for the greater good (as many open-source projects do)! I guess if it hasn't happened since Premise's demise in 2006 it won't be happening anytime soon. Too bad.

I'm in the process of groking Premise's online help and I plan to replicate my current environment. Who knows, I may even look at the driver SDK.

 

[Waynedb]

...
I had my Premise server crash on me when I had a motherboard failing(bad Cap problem on a 6 year old PIII 1ghz board ) I replaced it with a mini-ITX Via Epia board and it booted up on the old hard drive, it has been running solid ever since then, about 7 months now no problems.
...

Seven months ... sounds reasonably reliable.

Sam, waynedb,
Could you elaborate on how you're using it? Lighting? How many devices and technology? Any AV equipment?

I am using it with Insteon for Lighting(has to go), multi zone audio and video playback mostly.I want to add a security system but Elk is not supported, my alarm system I have now is just a cheap wireless one I bought years ago and it runs seperate of the H/A. I am using a UPnP/AV control point plugin from the Yahoo group to play back movies and TV shows off of my media server running TVersity and played back on Dlink DSM-510 networked media players. I have3 Fujitsu tablets for control and one Liliputt 10.4" Touch screen(Also has to Go, too cheap) in a wall running off a Nano-ITX PC. I can use my Pocket PC for control also. I have a weather station using the Virtual Weather Station plugin, Global Cache GC100's for AV RS-232 and IR control. I have my Onkyo TX-SR804 hooked up with RS-232 but all my other equipment is IR controlled.


I want to add IP cameras and and a good security HA panel, I also just started using SageTV and with its new hardware HD extenders I can do a better job with AV using CQC. Premise will work great if you use the right equipment but not enough people are writing drivers for new stuff, or maybe they are not making them available to others. I know you can get an updated GUI but I could not get the guys who made it to even answer my e-mail inquiries.

I like Premise, it seems very stable and it is very easy to setup if you watch the training videos from their website. If enough people worked on updating it they could make it do just about anything. customising the GUI and adding support for newer hardware would be nice but there does not seem to be much interest in doing this.

 

[123]

What can I say but, Wow! Thanks for the details and may I say that's a fair bit of functionality you've got with a free, so-called defunct, product. Impressive!

You mentioned you're aware of an updated GUI ... is there a screenshot of this or did you actually see it somewhere? And who are these "guys who made it"?

I don't understand Motorola's position on this product ... they bought it from Lantronix, sat on it, and then stopped selling and supporting it. Perhaps they tried to make a strategic move into a new market, miscalculated, and then cut their losses. Just give it up to open-source and garner some good-will or, better yet, sell the darn thing to someone who will breathe new life into it. At the right price, it would be a valuable acquisition for an existing HA hardware vendor looking to expand their market.

Say Spanky, maybe Elk's VP of Business Development can give someone at Motorola a call?

 

[Waynedb]

What can I say but, Wow! Thanks for the details and may I say that's a fair bit of functionality you've got with a free, so-called defunct, product. Impressive!

You mentioned you're aware of an updated GUI ... is there a screenshot of this or did you actually see it somewhere? And who are these "guys who made it"?

The talk of a different GUI was at the Yahoo group. I asked for screenshots and the price for the GUI, I never heard back, I expected it to be around $500.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Premise...ity/message/184

For a story on a home using Premise 2.0, read this. http://www.electronichouse.com/article/an_...ar_is_born/C203

 

[samgreco]

I had heard back once, but they weren't ready to release it yet. I haven't heard anything since and haven't followed up.

 

[pm2000]

I've been using Premise for 3 years now. I decided on it a few years back and selected all my components based on how well they were supported in Premise. It works great. Here are some specs of my system:

- 16 audio zones switched by a VAUX LE1600 matrix switcher (Premise has a great RS232 driver for VAUX)
- 23 communicating Aprilaire thermostats
- 108 security zones via NewtworX (CADDX) security system
- 112 lighting loads via Lutron Homeworks (another reliable Premise driver)
- All the control is done via Windows-based Tablet computers. I buy these for $300 or less on eBay. Great value that no other GUI device can beat. My favorite is the HP TC1100. I use the desktop cradle instead of mouting it on a wall. Super flexible and it is a full featured computer for browsing the web or checking e-mail.
- Still looking for a great touch-based GUI device (tablets usually require a pen). A Premise developer recently posted a message about implementing a Premise browser for the IPhone. This would be a great way to control Premise.

The best thing about Premise is how extendable it is. You can write script or native drivers for just about any device. The GUI browser is customizable and you can implement new browsers for new devices. I installed my system a few months after it became unsupported. I would normally never use an end-of-lifed product but there just was not anything like it.

Patrik