More INSTEON quality control issues!

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the fix would have to start at the top - which probably won't happen - it would require a complete change in the culture of the business

micromanaging the details from the top while ignoring internal communications - an employee (yes, sloop has fans that work there) sent me that info - its funny that when you call about a problem that is widespread and its the first time the customer rep has ever heard of the problem - i think the reps are put in a position where they have to lie to the customers - i also think they dislike being placed in that position

communicate what the company is doing to the grunts - when i sent in my plc for a 'replacement program', no one in customer service knew about the program - except for one person - every time i called i had to explain to the rep what the program was but could never talk to the selected rep (they sent 'e/mails' to her)

followup on problems - don't just send an e/mail and assume your job is done - allow the reps to do more than take the next call - if one of the reps i talked with about the plc replacement had called me back to see if my problem was resolved, it would go a long way toward fixing my attitude about the company - encourage employees to take ownership of customers' problems

hire (and handsomely reward) people that are professional - celebrate good performance and make a big hooha about employees that go the extra mile for the customer - i had the customer service manager actually tell me that he would not trust one of his employees because it was her last day - sad if that was true - sadder that he would tell the customer that

don't have adversarial relationships with departing employees - when they leave, find out what 'irons they had in the fire' and have their successor take on those tasks - my plm fell into that hole when joe williams left - evidently homeseer's point man left and all communications with homeseer left with him

take a loss for a good customer once in awhile - i finally got my money back for houselinc, 2 boosterlincs and my plc - we all know how houselinc sucked and the promised fixes were delayed forever - and i went with the isy - like i said, i did get my money back but it took months (the returned products were placed in the black hole - it took several long calls - after they were 'found', some were given 'partial credit' - its gone to 'accounting' - checks were sent but never left their building)

the high turnover rate leads me to believe morale must suck - stuff like hiring 'executives' from outside the company whose qualifications are 'marriage counseling' (and evidently a failed one) and dating the boss is demoralizing to the grunts

pass out money to employees that go above and beyond - great motivator for those that get the money as well as the guy that sits two cubicles down from him - not a coupon for a free sub sandwich or a free marie calendar's thanksgiving pie - take the check to them personally and make it a surprise - don't send out a memo that they will get a bonus in their paycheck sometime in the future - don't give them products you sell as a reward - make it enough to buy a 50 inch tv but not enough for a new kia

offer stock to the employees at bargain prices

raise the prices - if that is what it takes to make a product that works as advertised - i paid more for their x10 switchlincs (which actually worked except for the paddle problem)

farm out what you can't do yourself - not to a contractor that is hired to perform one task - someone you can partner with and have an ongoing relationship with

make a scope - offer it for sale and have a pool of them that customers could rent - if a good customer is having problems, send them one free to use to isolate the problem - give xpendable a free one - his product has generated revenue for you

resolve all bbb complaints to the customer's satisfaction even if it costs you money - that rating is slipping as you create more malcontents

throw a bone to those that ponied up $200 to join your secret handshake club - they believed in your product enough to join and deserve your attention - if you can't commit to doing what you promised, offer the members a $200 credit (or maybe $250 since you used their money for months if not years) and disband the secret handshake club

don't make claims that are shady - in real life, x10 is not compatible with 60 insteon devices - when the customer proves that, don't rely on a buried blurb to cover your backside

showcase a few customer success stories - assuming you can find a few (ok - that was tacky but i could not help myself) - make videos of their setups - one from a homeseer nerd and one from an isy fanboi - one from someone with only a few devices and one from an all insteon setup

talk to and listen to companies that sell your products - sell them on your product line so they will sell your products to their customers - i talked to one store and they share my opinion of insteon - they would sell me your product, but pushed a competing product line - they even made me an offer to buy back all the products of a competing product line if i was unhappy with them

have a presence periodically at home automation user groups - send someone to tout your products and answer questions about them - pass out coffee mugs with the craplinc logo on them and maybe buy them cheap pizzas for the meeting - i talked to a user group in my area and was told there was one guy that used insteon and the members 'almost had him convinced' to change to a competing product line - (i never attended because i would feel like the kia member when everyone else had their ferrari parked outside)

consider giving up on the proprietary stuff - they are not good enough to make insteon work - make it an open protocol and hope other companies can make working devices and bring products to the market sooner

open up to your customers that are home automation nerdlincs - when promised deadlines are not met, explain why - when your customers discover that your devices do not support the entire protocol suite, tell them why - when obvious problems arise, explain what happened - instead of silence or denials, i would have more confidence in you if you explained what happened

give your employees $2000 worth of craplincs and sell to them at cost or below - encourage them to learn first hand the products they support - listen to their feedback

close your forum - it is a source of discontent for your products

if you don't close your forums, find a real moderator and encourage your employees to participate - evidently, you could learn about lots of problems with your products (because its always a surprise to you when you finally discover them) - work on reining in your fanbois instead of trying to silence malcontents - when you fanbois tell the malcontents that 'insteon is so revolutionary that expectations for it to work are unrealistic', they are doing you no favors - when they make threats, its time for them to go

fire trevor jones - he appears to announce a new craplinc and disappears - no questions answered - no solutions offered - no status updates - if your esteemed moderator can be believed, he also appears to delete posts

if the above problems are addressed, consider dropping insteon and working on one niche of an existing protocol - insteon will never send me a message if my freezer temperature drops - it will never become the standard - make lighting devices that are homeplug compliant - if you can't set the standard, jump on existing standards that widely accepted

hire michel at any cost - if he won't take the job, work out something where the top managers can learn from his example

these are not problems that can be addressed by the employees - i feel bad for most of them - it can't be fun to face malcontents all day on the phone - especially when they work in a culture that evades and denies obvious problems - i also feel bad for me with $4000 worth of craplincs and $6000 pile of x10 in the garage

sigh
 
they don't care - none of this is new - its just another brush fire for them to put out and keep on with their same way of doing business

as far as their forum is concerned, i suspect i (and a couple of other craplinc malcontents) am a source of amusement for some of their employees - pressure relief for the frustrated

the moderator blames trevor jones for some of the deleted posts - who knows what is true - i don't believe either of them - but i did try to point out a few of the problems to trevor's manager - he would not give me the contact info but i did find it - what follows is my exchange with her - i never got a reply - imagine that

(i did edit out the e/mail addresses)






From: sloop
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 12:32 AM
To: 'Pam Grasso'
Subject: RE: contact info

Thanks for the opportunity to express my concerns about your forum board.

Some explanation of my history with Smarthome is necessary to understand why I am an unhappy Insteon customer.

My first home automation products were Smarthome’s X10 switchlincs. The powerline communication was excellent and reliable. The local control was not. The paddles stopped responding to presses. Periodically, I would return to Smarthome to buy more. When the devices were discontinued, I began what I thought would be a phased conversion to Insteon.

I read up on the device information and made my long range plan. My first orders were for enough devices to convert about half my house to Insteon and leave the remaining X10 devices for later replacement. I ordered Houselinc and a PLC to set up the links. The problem is that an X10 signal could not propagate on my powerline. Which I needed to synchronize the keypad buttons using Houselinc. As recommended, I purchased two additional Boosterlincs to attempt to boost the X10 signal. (And retired my old Boosterlinc.) The signal still cannot get through.

When the ISY became available, I purchased one. Smarthome sent the wrong PLM after being told the correct model by the ISY manufacturer. The PLM was replaced by Universal Devices.

Next I removed all the X10 devices and bought all Insteon. Which had no replacement for some of the functions I had with X10. This also meant that the Boosterlincs, Houselinc, PLC, I/R interface, R/F interface, keychain fobs, phase coupler and Touchlinc Timer (and accessories for it) were useless. That is quite a sum of money that is piled in my garage.

With about 70 Insteon devices installed, I worked closely with Universal Devices to implement my plan. To find that the PLM could not stand up to the heavy exercise necessary to perform the setup. Universal Devices sent me several PLMs in the course of diagnosing that problem.

Then came the news that my new Insteon devices suffered from the same problem that launched me into my conversion. The paddles stop responding to presses. Smarthome would not confirm nor deny that the problem exists. But a new version is sold now that is said to fix the problem.

But not my PLM problem. No confirmation or denial of that problem from Smarthome either. With almost $4,000 of Smarthome products, I can’t get an answer from them if they are addressing the problem. It seems that all the complaining caused a new policy to be put in place where Smarthome employees were not allowed to discuss the problems.

Thousands invested in your products and I can’t get an answer if there will one day be a fix.

I should say that I purchased the extended warranty on most of my devices and only one is the from the ICON line. About 20 are keypads. I have always followed Smarthome’s recommendations to buy yet more products to get a working system. Evidently, there is no device to monitor Insteon traffic on the powerline. Which makes problem solving a guessing game. (That game usually involves buying more Insteon.) If a monitor was available, the proprietary Insteon protocol is only available to those that spend $200 on a development kit product.

To add to the frustration, my PLC was lost for months when I returned it for replacement. My PLM was also lost for 9 months when I sent it back for testing. We are told that Houselinc will be fixed and never see it happen. Customers like me are left to scavage for rumors and ‘hope’ that someday there will be a solution that makes our investment work as advertised. Among the rumors is that my devices do not support the entire Insteon protocol suite.

Add the hundreds (if not thousands) of hours I have invested in trying to get Insteon to work and you arrive at my nickname for Insteon devices – craplincs.

In my search for answers to my problems with Insteon, I registered with your forum board. My ID is sloop. Participation by Smarthome/Smartlabs employees has varied but the forum has been a valuable resource in that fellow Insteon victims (I mean users) are generally willing to help with problems. Of course they can’t speak to problems that only Smarthome could answer. (Such as if a new PLM will be made to address its problems or when a new Houselinc will be available.)

When random threads from spammers began to appear on the forum board, the suggestion was made to appoint a moderator. That thread devolved into a shameless flame war. I don’t recall participating in the thread because I had no opinion. But the moderator position was given to one of the participants that posted the worst of the attacks. Most of the shameless posts were deleted by the people that initially posted them, including the new moderator.

I posted a thread about my experience with Insteon. It got locked. The explanation was:

“Posters to that thread were playing games, deleting their own messages, then blaming it on forum staff, so that one thread was finally locked to preserve it.â€

If that happened, I was not a participant. I rarely edit any of my posts and can’t recall ever deleting one. I started another that contained only my posts.

Most of the uproar centers around a handful of people. Or a handful of registered IDs. I can’t prove it, but suspect some of the IDs are duplicates. One particular thread is an example. It is a thread whose purpose was to bash two people. With me being one of the targets. The thread is still posted:

http://www.techmall.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2873

I am not convinced that someone would register for the purpose of bashing two people. Maybe it did happen. The reason given was that he felt ‘compelled’ to. But I am not sure why a thread dedicated to bashing two people was allowed to remain posted. I can’t get Trevor or the moderator to answer that question for me.

It seems the poster felt ‘compelled’ to call me a liar and claim I post personal attacks. I refrained from posting for a time, but asked him to point to where I attacked anyone personally. And waited for a response. Which did not happen so I asked again. Still no response. After thinking through and writing my response, I find the thread locked.

In that thread, someone threatened to call law enforcement if anyone dare ‘mention…in that tone’ his wife. Since the poster has a history of editing and deleting his posts, I quoted the post for ‘posterity’. I have asked the moderator and Trevor why that threat was allowed to stay. They give me no direct answer but locked the thread.

I started a new thread for my response. It was deleted. I posted it a few more times and it was finally allowed to stay.

http://www.techmall.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3128

Of course Trevor locked the thread saying that questions and concerns should be directed to himself or the moderator. Since they are the concern, that accomplishes nothing. The moderator did post that I am a troll though. Which seems a personal attack and against his own forum guidelines.

Another user (the other target of the bash thread) posted a topic asking about (what he called) I2. As I understand it, I2 referred to devices that supported all the Insteon protocol (including the extended message format). The moderator deleted the thread a few times. The thread was taken to another forum board where someone remarked that he learned more from that thread than any other. While the moderator could not delete the thread (from the other forum), he immediately posted that the motivation for asking the question was to spread ‘fear, uncertainty and doubt’.

The question seems valid since probably most people assumed the devices we had already purchased supported the extended message format. Evidently, the moderator disagrees because he removed the thread several times while allowing a thread with no association to Insteon remain. A thread that was the first post of a newly registered user.

I am not sure why Trevor posts on the forum. When a thread was posted about bogus credit card charges, he offered no response. It seems the common denominator in these charges was Smarthome. I am shocked that Smarthome would choose to ignore that.

As requested, I have asked these questions directly to the moderator and Trevor. And have received no response other than to delete the post, thread or lock the thread.

Trevor did send me an e/mail offering to help with my Insteon problems. After a year or more of offering no help on his forum, I questioned why his offer comes now. Maybe it is because I asked for contact info for his manager. In any event, I told him that my problems were posted in minute detail on the forum and asked if he would read them.

The e/mail follows:

----- Original Message ----
From: sloop
To: Trevor Jones
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 4:17:05 PM
Subject: Re: Sent From Smarthome Forum by Trevor

i don't have issues with insteon - i have problems - that are documented in minute detail on your forum - if you are interested in the problems i have with your products, you will find them there - are you interested enough to find those threads?

i would also like to talk to your manager - will you give me the contact information?



----- Original Message ----
From: Trevor Jones
To: sloop
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 3:45:14 PM
Subject: RE: Sent From Smarthome Forum by Trevor

Hi sloop,

You were contacted directly to give you an opportunity get your questions answered. The INSTEON forum on Techmall is not the appropriate place for non-INSTEON-related questions. All posts that are off topic, derogatory, or inaccurate will continue to be deleted. If this continues to be a problem, your account will be banned from the forum.

I hope we are able to constructively resolve any issues you may have. Please send your questions (via email) and I will do what I can to work with you on them.

Thank you,

Trevor

-----Original Message-----
From: sloop
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:17 PM
To: Trevor Jones
Subject: Re: Sent From Smarthome Forum by Trevor

why has smarthome taken an interest in helping me with my problems now?

my problems have been detailed on your forum - several times

if you need the e/mails i have sent (that are posted on techmall), i can dig them out



----- Original Message ----
From: Trevor
To: sloop
Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 11:37:09 AM
Subject: Sent From Smarthome Forum by Trevor

Hello sloop

You received the following message from: Trevor

At: http://www.techmall.com/

sloop,

INSTEON is a new technology and it is crucial that its power users have a direct path to provide feedback, criticism and new ideas. If you wouldn't mind, I would like to ask for your help in identifying what your issues have been with the technology, products and support. Please feel free to email me directly.

Thank you,

Trevor



======================================
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
This e-mail message is intended only for the person(s) or organization(s) to whom or which it is addressed and may contain information which is confidential and privileged. The unauthorized use, copying, distribution, or disclosure of this e-mail or any of its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this transmission.
Thank you.

http://www.smarthome.com/



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CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
This e-mail message is intended only for the person(s) or organization(s) to whom or which it is addressed and may contain information which is confidential and privileged. The unauthorized use, copying, distribution, or disclosure of this e-mail or any of its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this transmission.
Thank you.

http://www.smarthome.com/


End of e/mails.

I assume the answer is no to both my questions.

Like I said, the posts I refer to took HOURS to compose. I tried to include all the information about my problems and anticipate any questions someone might have about the post. Trevor has never replied to any of the posts. I do not believe his e/mail was a sincere offer of help since he has never participated in those threads or replied to my last response.

I have never tried to take advantage of Smarthome. It took me longer than the 30 day trial period to discover the PLC and Houselinc would not perform what I needed. I never asked to be an exception to Smarthome’s policy and get my money back. The same is true for the Boosterlincs that Smarthome recommended for me to buy. Another Insteon customer asked me to return failed Insteon devices for him using my warranty. I refused.

As best I can recall, I have returned one device under warranty. Others have failed but I have always just bought new replacement devices. But when specific questions were asked on your forum board, instead of answers we were told that a new company policy would not allow them to be answered.

When you add all the purchases from Smarthome I have made, I estimate it to be between $7,000-10,000. The last time I added up the Insteon purchases it was about $3,750. When questions are asked about when (of if) we can expect a working PLM, we are directed to the ‘new company policy’. Meaning with $3,750 worth of your Insteon products, I can’t know if there would ever be a chance of setting it up. Trevor and the moderator seem to think I should drop it.

I think their selective enforcement of their ad hoc guidelines is bad representation for Smarthome. I also think Smarthome should address that.

Sorry this e/mail is so long. Believe it or not, it is the short version. I wanted you to understand some of the problems I have experienced to justify (lol – well – understand where I am coming from) my unhappiness with the Insteon products.

Again, thanks for taking the time to allow me to voice my concerns about the people representing Smarthome on your forum.





________________________________________
From: Pam Grasso
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:46 PM
To: sloop
Subject: RE: contact info

what are your questions & concerns? I will try to help you

Pam Grasso
Accounting/Payroll Manager
Human Resources
SmartLabs, Inc.
www.smarthome.com
www.insteon.net

Tel (949) 221-0037 ext 183
Fax (949) 221-0367

Smarthome....making life more convenient safe and fun

Subscribe to the Smarthome Newsletter to receive exclusive deals


________________________________________
From: sloop
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:35 AM
To: Pam Grasso
Subject: RE: contact info
Thanks Pam. I have some questions and concerns about your forum board and one of the administrators, Trevor Jones. Can you direct me to someone I can contact about this?



________________________________________
From: Pam Grasso
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:23 PM
To: sloop
Subject: RE: contact info

You have the correct information..how can I help you?

Pam Grasso
Accounting/Payroll Manager
Human Resources
SmartLabs, Inc.
www.smarthome.com
www.insteon.net

Tel (949) 221-0037 ext 183
Fax (949) 221-0367

Smarthome....making life more convenient safe and fun

Subscribe to the Smarthome Newsletter to receive exclusive deals


________________________________________
From: sloop
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:20 AM
To: Pam Grasso
Subject: contact info
I was given your name as the HR contact for SmartLabs. When I called, your voice mail recording said you are in Accounting. Was I given the wrong contact info?

Thanks


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CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
This e-mail message is intended only for the person(s) or organization(s) to whom or which it is addressed and may contain information which is confidential and privileged. The unauthorized use, copying, distribution, or disclosure of this e-mail or any of its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this transmission.
Thank you.
http://www.smarthome.com/
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CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
This e-mail message is intended only for the person(s) or organization(s) to whom or which it is addressed and may contain information which is confidential and privileged. The unauthorized use, copying, distribution, or disclosure of this e-mail or any of its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this transmission.
Thank you.
http://www.smarthome.com/
 
lol - sloop's a trip like that

i never agreed to any contract concerning e/mail - not sure if one party can set terms of a contract and force another party to agree just by declaring it valid – but if they want me to delete the post, i will – all they have to do is ask

i was a fanboi at one time – and why i am now a malcontent is documented in minute detail on their forums – no need to rehash that

i understand that you are trying to give them a fair shake – we are trying to explain that in our pointy little heads, we already have – many times – and have not seen much of an effort from them

its discouraging when you can’t get an admission of a problem – so who knows if or when a solution will be available

customer service is always surprised to hear of a problem that many others have reported – but are happy to exchange it for another device – devices that have the same problem

missed target dates add to the frustration when no reason is given and no new date is announced

then the fanbois jump on the frustrated malcontents and before you know it, someone’s wife is called fat – we are told that insteon is ‘revolutionary’ (no its not) – we are told that its our mistake for expecting ‘beta’ products to work as advertised (even though I was never told this stuff was beta) – we are told its our wiring or we have noise on the line (x10 had no problems and we have filterlincs on electronincs) – we are told to buy more accesspoints and boosterlincs (did not help) – then we are told to send in more money and exchange accesspoints for ‘refurbished’ accesspoints (forget it) – we are told that resetting devices is a fix and to be expected – we are told that we should not have assumed their devices would support their entire protocol suite – we are told our assumption that dual mesh meant every device was powerline and rf was wrong – we are told its just a ‘bad batch’

and on and on and on

the plan seems to be to silence the malcontents until they give up on insteon and eat the loss – and many do – many many – the few that stick around and squeak are dealt with by calling their wives fat (joking – kinda)

so you sit in your house with $4000 worth of light switches that can’t be set up because the plm can’t handle the exercise – they are happy to swap it for another that has the same problem – and another one – others are complaining about the same problem but they say its not their plm – can you force them to fix it? beg them? they won’t admit the problem exists so you kinda suspect they are not working on a fix

i guess what i am trying to say is that we have tried pretty please many times and it never has worked in the past – not sure why it will now

but sorry if i hurt their feelings (sloop trippin again)
 
Just thought I'd throw it out there since I just watched someone go to wikipedia for automation info ...

The INSTEON wikipedia article(the one most non-techies will find) is pretty poor and labeled as an advertisement. Perhaps someone can put some "neutral point of view" info in there from all sides of this discussion.
 
Just thought I'd throw it out there since I just watched someone go to wikipedia for automation info ...

The INSTEON wikipedia article(the one most non-techies will find) is pretty poor and labeled as an advertisement. Perhaps someone can put some "neutral point of view" info in there from all sides of this discussion.

Good thought. I doubt that there is a 'neutral' INSTEON person alive on this planet. Ole Sloop is a bit out spoken but he usually manages to say what needs to be said. I still have a couple of those 'voluntary recall' appliance-links in a box. I never received any official written notice (as in a official recall) that they might smoke up your house if you put the wrong load on them. I was one of the first folks that had one smoke, gee, maybe they just do not care too much about 'legacy defective products', like I1.

I suspect that the INSTEON Wikipedia is labeled a 'advertisement' because it is. If they wrote down the real truth no one would want to spend money on that stuff.

My thoughts on this subject.

Ken
 
I suspect that the INSTEON Wikipedia is labeled a 'advertisement' because it is. If they wrote down the real truth no one would want to spend money on that stuff.

Insteon is all about the "hype" . If SH did not know how to shovel the "BS" they would never have lasted this long with Insteon. Not saying they would go out of business as they are one of the biggest Home Automation resellers in the world. But they really are not an engineering or manufacturing company (no matter what company name is on a cluster of cubicles in there little building i.e. Smarthome, Smarthome Labs, Smarthome Pro etc).
 
There is a thread in the ISY Forums on a communications error in their system.
They had four Access Points. Two the original 1.0R [was a referb from the swap] and two of the new 1.6 versions. Smarthome Support had the user remove the two older 1.0R units and their communications became much better.
Wounder if Smarthome has any official word on this. My bet under the rug!
 
Maybe another secret firmware fix that they dont want people to know about. Just adds to customer frustration if that is what happened.
 
I do know my new V4.1 ApplianceLincV2 modules [I2 Enabled]. Had a terrible communications problem. I removed one of my V1.0 Access Points and used a passive X10 Dryer Coupler. Was maybe 95% better than with two Access Points. Steve L. and the ISY team where given a few of my problem ApplianceLincs for test; but I have not gotten any feedback on any findings. For now the old version 1.3s are back in use except one new one on a problem load. Yes the new 4.1s do act much better with touchy loads and can have Local Control enabled and disabled by the Set Button. Also not tied to the X10 Primary Address like the originals. Completely different electronics also. Yes I did peak into one of them. :rolleyes:
 
I do know my new V4.1 ApplianceLincV2 modules [I2 Enabled]. Had a terrible communications problem. I removed one of my V1.0 Access Points and used a passive X10 Dryer Coupler. Was maybe 95% better than with two Access Points. Steve L. and the ISY team where given a few of my problem ApplianceLincs for test; but I have not gotten any feedback on any findings. For now the old version 1.3s are back in use except one new one on a problem load. Yes the new 4.1s do act much better with touchy loads and can have Local Control enabled and disabled by the Set Button. Also not tied to the X10 Primary Address like the originals. Completely different electronics also. Yes I did peak into one of them. :rolleyes:

Dont hold your breath for an answer from SH. I hope they replaced the units that you sent them for testing. I think they still owe Sloop a PLM.
 
Yes UDI handled the whole thing. Smarthlabs sent me three modules in advance. Then I got a electronic prepaid label from UDI to send the three originals to them and they where going to get together with Steve Lee and see what they could find.
 
Yes UDI handled the whole thing. Smarthlabs sent me three modules in advance. Then I got a electronic prepaid label from UDI to send the three originals to them and they where going to get together with Steve Lee and see what they could find.

I would think that UDI would share their findings if you ask. Maybe out of sight out of mind right now.

For a laugh you can call SH about 100 times and get 40 or so different stories of what is NOT wrong with their product and how customers dont install them correctly LOL. Just like the customers were installing the paddles incorrectly and there was nothing wrong with the tact switches. That was a good story for about 6 months or more.
 
I do not know if, in my case, it was an issue of quality control or a failure in the real-life installation of the protocol.

We have documented our issues with Insteon here:
http://wiki.willeke.com/wiki/InsteonExperience

Jim,
Nice write-up. From the dates of your Insteon devices, none of them should have the I2 protocol. I2 capable devices began entering the market in late 2008 (I believe the KPL relay was the first). In any event, the problems others have encountered related to I2 involves programming the devices. Normal on/off/dim communication is performed using I1 protocol. Since you have older devices and they are unreliable in all modes, lets eliminate I2 as the cause for now.

I have a moderate sized home (4500 sq foot) with a mixed X10/Insteon installation (25/80 devices). I am running the entire system with a passive coupler and 1 accesspoint. Like you, I began by running my Insteon devices in X10 mode while waiting for the ISY system to incorporate X10.

My point here - If have 4 accesspoints in a single room and still can't communicate reliably you have something far more serious than simple noise. I believe your signal is being actively corrupted and the source may be your X10 install.

The X10 KPL you referenced in the Wiki (12074W) includes "boosterlinc". When I began transitioning my devices from X10 to Insteon protocol, I hit a wall with communications failures. I traced the problem to an "Insteon Blessed" boosterlinc. When I removed the Boosterlinc, my Insteon communications hit 100% (of course my X10 coms plummeted). Smarthome suggested and provided a replacement Boosterlinc (thinking the device had failed). The new unit produced the same problems.

Your 12074W units incorporate similar X10 boosting capability. They may be actively corrupting the Insteon signal by getting fooled into trying to repeat the signal. Per the owners manual, the Boosterlinc mode can be disabled - I'm not sure if this is effective or not.

As a test, try removing or disabling all of your boosterlinc capable X10 devices. Let us know if this helps and we can proceed from there.

IM
 
I really appreciate the feedback.

I am not familiar with the "I2" protocol, and although I appreciate the information, do not feel that I as a consumer and customer should need to be.
However, this does point add to my impression that Insteon as an implemented protocol may have practical limitation that are at a minimum not discussed or documented by any manufacture.

We do have many X-10 devices that all work fine. Have also introduced some Z-Wave which seem to work fine, but the implementation for setup and management is still very tedious and IMHO overly complex.

Since we have nine (12074W) includes "boosterlinc" devices, I do not see how removing them would be an acceptable solution.
We have one of these in several rooms. (in one larger room two).

A couple of people have suggested that the Surge Suppression devices we have maybe an issue. We have about 20KVA Active UPS devices. Any thoughts?

Also curious, how would one determine if there was "corrupting the Insteon signal"?
I asked this of Smarthome support and I was told I woudl need to contact a "certified" installer.

Thanks
-jim

I do not know if, in my case, it was an issue of quality control or a failure in the real-life installation of the protocol.

We have documented our issues with Insteon here:
http://wiki.willeke.com/wiki/InsteonExperience

Jim,
Nice write-up. From the dates of your Insteon devices, none of them should have the I2 protocol. I2 capable devices began entering the market in late 2008 (I believe the KPL relay was the first). In any event, the problems others have encountered related to I2 involves programming the devices. Normal on/off/dim communication is performed using I1 protocol. Since you have older devices and they are unreliable in all modes, lets eliminate I2 as the cause for now.

I have a moderate sized home (4500 sq foot) with a mixed X10/Insteon installation (25/80 devices). I am running the entire system with a passive coupler and 1 accesspoint. Like you, I began by running my Insteon devices in X10 mode while waiting for the ISY system to incorporate X10.

My point here - If have 4 accesspoints in a single room and still can't communicate reliably you have something far more serious than simple noise. I believe your signal is being actively corrupted and the source may be your X10 install.

The X10 KPL you referenced in the Wiki (12074W) includes "boosterlinc". When I began transitioning my devices from X10 to Insteon protocol, I hit a wall with communications failures. I traced the problem to an "Insteon Blessed" boosterlinc. When I removed the Boosterlinc, my Insteon communications hit 100% (of course my X10 coms plummeted). Smarthome suggested and provided a replacement Boosterlinc (thinking the device had failed). The new unit produced the same problems.

Your 12074W units incorporate similar X10 boosting capability. They may be actively corrupting the Insteon signal by getting fooled into trying to repeat the signal. Per the owners manual, the Boosterlinc mode can be disabled - I'm not sure if this is effective or not.

As a test, try removing or disabling all of your boosterlinc capable X10 devices. Let us know if this helps and we can proceed from there.

IM
 
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