More INSTEON quality control issues!

[BraveSirRobbin]

Just to quickly add to what Dan already stated (and to stay on topic) we have a policy that if you are representing or associated with a company, you must state your association in your signature and optionally (though highly suggested) a logo in your avatar.

The staff of Cocoontech feels this helps our forum members interpret responses and posts here. For instance, if one were to recommend a product, a member can easily and quickly see if that person is associated with a the company who makes/sells/etc... that product.

Likewise if a one were to offer help with a product, a member can also see that this person will have a unique insight in the matter and again, may influence the 'weight' associated with the merit of the post.

We have very few rules and regulations here, and feel this one is important. Again, this policy applies to 'regularly' posting members and was implemented with our forum member's best interest in mind!

 

[Digger]

If SH does not wish for Steve's posts to represent their company (since he is doing it on his own time) then I dont think he should have to jepordize his position there by putting in his signature that he represents them. Nor should he be excluded from posting what his opinions are (granted at times he can accidently say "we" it happens). I think he is entitled to his opinions as much as anyone. Excluding his opinions would not be fair.

If he were to put in his signature that his posts are his personal opinions isnt that acceptable?

If someone works for Acme Food company do they need to put that in their signature if they happen to use automation there and the person says "I use these widgets at work and they are great"?

I understand the policy and it is a good one but Steve is in a tough spot where I am guessing SH does not want him (or anyone else) to officially represent the company on their own time. I think the disclaimer should be allowed.

 

[GraysonPeddie]

For what its worth, I am using Insteon and have had no issues at all. I use switchlinc dimmers and relays , keypadlinc dimmers and relays and lamplincs. I haven't branched into the more involved product offerings, but its planned someday! In fact, my only compliant against Insteon is that they don't mass produce custom etched buttons for the more popular labels. To me its a huge market opportunity. Steve has mentioned that they are considering it though, so my fingers are crossed.

When I first bought Insteon I didn't do a whole lot of research. I just wanted to do one thing, and it looked like it was perfect for that use. Once I bought a couple of units I found this forum and others. I quickly found Sloop's posts with his issues, which obviously concerned me. SH definitely made some mistakes in the past, and undoubtedly will make some in the future. Then I see Digger jumping to every forum out there that returns "Insteon" in the search bar and attacking SH constantly. His original posts concerning the problems he had were legit and informative. The blatant attacks of late are pointless in my mind.

Just as I wouldn't jump into any home automation thread that discusses automated lighting and declare "Insteon works for me, everyone should use it", I don't understand his need to jump in and say "Insteon sucks and I had problems with them 2+ years ago". Further, he jumps on any complaint posted and immediately declares SH as guilty of negligence or worse. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but it would be best to get the facts first.. "Those cops acted stupidly" comes to mind.

Seconded.

I once had that same experience in the TechMall forum (before SmartHome changed its forum name to SmartHome Forums, although I don't have the direct links to the threads in SmartHome forum.

I made the move from Insteon to X10 in 2007, but I'm not going to stick with it for longer.

 

[sloop]

oh damn he's back - the craplinc malcontent

funny that people still defend smarthome - it is a lie that smarthome 'did the right thing' on the paddle problem - they denied it for years and accused everyone of all kindsa stuff

so did we decide if 'i2' is real? i know the moderator denied it on the smarthome forum - maybe this is an imaginary problem like the paddle problem

sloop's crib be all lookin ghetto an sheee - and i need to exchange some craplincs - i am sure they are all i1 (if it exists) and i have a feeling i would get the new and improved craplinc if i exchange them

i have not updated my isy in like forever - but if i update it, will i have this mythical i2 problem?

 

[Digger]

Not to start anything but .....

the Mythical I2 problem is no myth. There are more than a few posts on different forums where people are having problems with I2 and I1 devices on the same system (SH has not officially announced a fix other than to "buy more I2). While it was an innocent question at the time before it was released (where the SH moderator accused me of spreading fear, uncertianty and doubt) if SH had fessed up at the time (if they actually knew it would be a problem back then) it would have saved a lot of people a lot of grief.

Sloop why not try UPB or Zwave and end your misery (there is bound to be more if you mix I2 and I1 devices). This month was one year for me with UPB and not a single device has failed (so far). Some day one or two will probably die but it may be years. Heck I will send you a few for free to try if you want. No sense suffering with the Insteon headaches.

I am surprised that some very pro Insteon people have given up on it (by their own admission). I honestly thought they would use it forever no matter what the problems.

There are very little new threads on the SH forum. So few they are deleting and changing posts that are suggesting new products just to amuse themselves over there. Times must be tough lately for the SH moderators to be doing that to piss off people.

 

[sloop]

i should swap them all out for a product that actually does what it promises - i am having a rough time motivating myself to get back into messing with light switches - i did not want it to become a hobby, though i did have to devote a couple of years of my life screwing with craplincs and their deceptive manufacturer just to set it up

i had a retailer tell me that if i buy upb and was unhappy, they would refund 100% of my money - no such promise for the craplinc line

even if the new craplincs worked as they should, replacing one device in my house would probably take 4 hours of writing to the network - because of the boatload of links i have - the plm can't handle that much exercise

that - and i will probably have to explain to the customer rep what i think of their products and company - that never goes well - but wouldn't you just love to see the notes on my accounts

so this problem has not been resolved? has smarthome admitted the problem exists?

 

[SnyperBob]

i had a retailer tell me that if i buy upb and was unhappy, they would refund 100% of my money - no such promise for the craplinc line

Do it!

 

[sloop]

let me see if i understand the problem

we bought behind loads of craplincs - about $4,000.00 for me (and another $6,000.00 of their x10 crap that can't be used) - these devices did not support the entire insteon protocol, and its 'our bad' that we made that assumption

we battled through all the problems with these i1 craplincs - had ud give us free equipment and spend many hours on the phone with us until we got all our thousands of links set up - we also bought unneeded additional r/f bridge thingys that we did not need and later were told to send in more money and the old bridge devices for new and imporved access point bridge thingys - (funny that they said the old ones would work though)

in any event, craplincs fail - as craplincs do - and now we need to replace old craplincs with new craplincs

however - the new craplincs support a larger subset of the insteon protocol that includes an extended message format - which is all well and good if you are buying all new craplincs

but since insteon devices suck signal strength from the powerline, they must repeat the messages that pass through them if the message is not addressed to them - except since i1 devices do not speak i2, they do not repeat the message - if the signal is not strong enough to carry the message to the new i2 device, we are screwed - the more i1 devices that must be traversed to reach the i2 device, the crappier our chances are of success

and adding the new and improved access point craplincs (if we owned them) might get the message through IF you get it next door to the new i2 craplinc

i am so screwed

but then, they have done that for years now

the good news is - it sounds like ud can overcome the craplinc screwups YET AGAIN - by defeating the 'new and improved' i2 functions that we assumed we already had in our 'legacy' devices

and people say upb requires too much knowledge to implement

sigh

 

[sloop]

i had a retailer tell me that if i buy upb and was unhappy, they would refund 100% of my money - no such promise for the craplinc line

Do it!

i need some estrogen in da haouzie for motivation - no wife

life was simpler when women would swill booze more

 

[Digger]

Sloop.... UPB went in and was set up in less than 2 days for me (about 40 somewhat devices). You have a lot more scenes etc so might take you a little longer. Take people up on their offers. I will give you a few for free to try and keep (I did it for a friend at work and he has no complaints since he installed them in May dumping his SH devices). If you like them take the retailer up on the offer that if you dont like them he will take them back. With UPB a retailer can do that because they know the product works and there is little risk.

You will never be happy with Insteon so make the move (the thousands of dollars wasted on Insteon are gone forever) . I am completely satisfied with UPB (not saying it is perfect for every application out there). Its actually forgotton in my house most of the time since it just works which is what a light system should be.

 

[Madcodger]

My wife finally talked me into putting our house on the market b/c it's just too big and the grounds require too much upkeep for two people (kids out of the house, etc.). While I'm skeptical about our chances in the current market b/c we're not willing to take a total bath on the price, I decided that I'd better make sure the Insteon system was up to par. So I started walking through the house to test actual switches, most of which are controlled via 7 KPLs in the house, which means we don't use the actual switches all that much. What I found was shocking:

Of the ~ 70 Insteon switches in the house, 20 (yes, TWENTY!!!!) have a problem. One is dead completely (controls a litttle used set of decorative lights), three more are showing up as dead to my ISY and to manual switching although the LED is still on, and another 16 have problems with the manual switch itself (press it about 20 times to turn it on or off). This is in addition to several more spare switches that I've been meaning to exchange due to the manual switch problem (I bought several spares when I started having problems, and some were never sent back after they failed).

I'll contact SH in the next day or two to attempt a warranty replacement given the policy I've heard about for the manual switches, and will update the board on my results. Should be a good test of their warranty and customer service policies.

 

[Digger]

My wife finally talked me into putting our house on the market b/c it's just too big and the grounds require too much upkeep for two people (kids out of the house, etc.). While I'm skeptical about our chances in the current market b/c we're not willing to take a total bath on the price, I decided that I'd better make sure the Insteon system was up to par. So I started walking through the house to test actual switches, most of which are controlled via 7 KPLs in the house, which means we don't use the actual switches all that much. What I found was shocking:

Of the ~ 70 Insteon switches in the house, 20 (yes, TWENTY!!!!) have a problem. One is dead completely (controls a litttle used set of decorative lights), three more are showing up as dead to my ISY and to manual switching although the LED is still on, and another 16 have problems with the manual switch itself (press it about 20 times to turn it on or off). This is in addition to several more spare switches that I've been meaning to exchange due to the manual switch problem (I bought several spares when I started having problems, and some were never sent back after they failed).

I'll contact SH in the next day or two to attempt a warranty replacement given the policy I've heard about for the manual switches, and will update the board on my results. Should be a good test of their warranty and customer service policies.

If you include the spares you probably have about a 30% failure rate. Over time more may fail. You may already have had some failures that you exchanged or maybe not.

So if you move will you use Insteon in the new house?

BTW Good Luck!

 

[mustangcoupe]

My wife finally talked me into putting our house on the market b/c it's just too big and the grounds require too much upkeep for two people (kids out of the house, etc.).........................

IMHO, I would pull most automated switches (espc. ones that have a high failure rate) before selling the house and put in standard switches. This way you get to keep the technology for your new house.

 

[Madcodger]

So if you move will you use Insteon in the new house?

BTW Good Luck!

Digger, I'm really struggling with this one. If you had asked me a couple of years ago, no way would I have stayed with Insteon, even if it were free! Now, I'm going to see how SH reacts when I call them (busy at work, so haven't tallied up the spares that are dead and called yet). The newer items I've installed (generally to replace things that went bad) seem to be better, although I think at least 3 of my current problem switches are replacements. But if they've worked out the kinks, I'll consider them. I like the relatively small size of the switches, and the look, and still think the concept is great. I just think SH really botched their initial product line. How they react to the current situation, and how the new switches hold up (I think the house won't sell until Spring, personally, given the economy) will tell me how to proceed with the next house. I WILL automate it, but will consider everybody except X10 for the next one.

As for pulling out the automated switches as suggested, I think I'm too lazy to do it!

 

[Digger]

I doubt many house shoppers will know anything about automated lighting let alone SH high failure rate (if they do then SH really messed up big time).

I would tend to agree that SH has fixed some of their problems (tact switches etc) but there are still so many instances of firmware revisions and hardware revisions compared to other mfg. I think its been about 2 or 3 months now since they had a recall for the Icon switches with the diode failure. Maybe they can go the rest of the year without a recall.

I bought some additional UPB switches about 3 months ago and I bet they are the same firmware and hardware rev from a year ago. Why? Probably because there are no issues. In a little over a year now (August 08 install) there have been ZERO failures of UPB devices in my case. I was lucky if I could go two weeks with Insteon without noticing a failure. These switches should last 10 or more years (at least) before seeing failures. It is sad when such a high percentage of switches etc fail in the first 2 or 3 years in the case of Insteon. New product or not that is just very poor QC/QA work on the part of SH.