Motion Detector suggestions of my Elk M1 install

[ejh3]

Good morning all!

My Elk M1 install is underway, but I would like to get recommendations on hard wired Motion/PIR and Glassbreaks.

I was looking into getting several DSC BV500GB for my main floors, probably about (4) of these. I see Smarthome actually has them on sale for 46.00. Does anyone here have experience with these?

The sensor I am unsure about is the one I will put in my 30x30 unheated garage. My finished (sheet rocked) garage has an I beam running down that comes down about a foot off the 10.5' ceiling. I was thinking about putting a Bosch corner mount w/pet immunity and some sentrol flush mount Glassbreaks. That is unless I can find a corner mount w/glassbreak combo.

A little off topic: with the UDI Elk module, it is my understanding that I can use the motions that I use for my Elk panel to interface/trigger programs within my isy. Is this correct?

Suggestions /recommendations are greatly appreciated!

Ed

 

[Del91574]

I would strongly recommend against those combo units. There is little in the way of adjustment for sensitivity and honestly, coverage for a PIR and GBD are two independent, typically mutually exclusive items....the best location for a PIR is not typically on a normal residential height ceiling (8') and the location for a GBD is usually directly opposite and within 15' of the glass to be protected. At 8' those detectors are only going to cover a 20' square room.
 
You would need to share a common negative and use 2 zones to install them properly using a single 4/22. Otherwise, if one unit alarms or falses you will not know which technology tripped the alarm.

I'm a firm believer that ceiling mounted units are not the solution for 90% of  the residential installs out there....they're more for a commercial application where items are commonly moved and rearranged (partitions, displays, stockrooms, etc.) and drop ceilings are commonplace. They typically don't have the same capture performance of a properly located corner or wall mount detector.....this is first hand testing and installation knowledge.
 
I would not recommend the Sentrol/GE GBD's. They are less than ideal units and I've experienced multiple cases where properly installed they would not generate alarm conditions even when tested using the listed methods. They are holdover engineering designs of the old shatterboxes.
 
Pay attention to the environment you are installing the detectors in the garage. Temperature, dirt and insects are going to be an issue with any motion and typically, I have seen issues with GBD's and garage OHD's...they don't like the noise of a steel or wood door and the related hardware moving around.

 

[ddennerline]

+1 on Dell's recommendation. Finding the right location to install Glass Breaks (GB) is not a simple endeavor. My motion detectors are not installed anywhere close the GB.
 
You will have to keep in mind PR detection devices require a 90 degree observation path where GB require a different orientation.
 
I installed Visonic Duet http://www.visonic.com/Products/Wired-Detectors/Duet-am-dual, and they have worked very nice – not one false positive. For glass breaks, I installed Honeywell FG1625 RND. The GB do have “true” positives cause by legos, keys dropping, and circular saw. I had to put them on stay/night mode; instead of 24 hours.

 

[Del91574]

Bosch PI "tri-techs" as a design element for me. Also Visonic Glasstechs (no adjustment and many advantages).
 
In a prior life/company, I installed hundreds of the FG-1625's (and 1525's and 1025's and earlier 730's) and the later versions, while improving false alarm immunity seemed to trade their sensitivity and performance IMHO. Given the need for a recessed unit, I'd choose the FG1625 over the GE/Sentrol units any day.
 
Burglar points should always be controllable by the host panel and never 24 hour.

 

[ejholt]

I would strongly recommend against those combo units. There is little in the way of adjustment for sensitivity and honestly, coverage for a PIR and GBD are two independent, typically mutually exclusive items....the best location for a PIR is not typically on a normal residential height ceiling (8') and the location for a GBD is usually directly opposite and within 15' of the glass to be protected. At 8' those detectors are only going to cover a 20' square room.
 
You would need to share a common negative and use 2 zones to install them properly using a single 4/22. Otherwise, if one unit alarms or falses you will not know which technology tripped the alarm.

I'm a firm believer that ceiling mounted units are not the solution for 90% of  the residential installs out there....they're more for a commercial application where items are commonly moved and rearranged (partitions, displays, stockrooms, etc.) and drop ceilings are commonplace. They typically don't have the same capture performance of a properly located corner or wall mount detector.....this is first hand testing and installation knowledge.
 
I would not recommend the Sentrol/GE GBD's. They are less than ideal units and I've experienced multiple cases where properly installed they would not generate alarm conditions even when tested using the listed methods. They are holdover engineering designs of the old shatterboxes.
 
Pay attention to the environment you are installing the detectors in the garage. Temperature, dirt and insects are going to be an issue with any motion and typically, I have seen issues with GBD's and garage OHD's...they don't like the noise of a steel or wood door and the related hardware moving around.

Thanks for the input Delinstallations!

 

[ejholt]

+1 on Dell's recommendation. Finding the right location to install Glass Breaks (GB) is not a simple endeavor. My motion detectors are not installed anywhere close the GB.
 
You will have to keep in mind PR detection devices require a 90 degree observation path where GB require a different orientation.
 
I installed Visonic Duet http://www.visonic.com/Products/Wired-Detectors/Duet-am-dual, and they have worked very nice – not one false positive. For glass breaks, I installed Honeywell FG1625 RND. The GB do have “true” positives cause by legos, keys dropping, and circular saw. I had to put them on stay/night mode; instead of 24 hours.

Thanks!

 

[ejholt]

Bosch PI "tri-techs" as a design element for me. Also Visonic Glasstechs (no adjustment and many advantages).
 
In a prior life/company, I installed hundreds of the FG-1625's (and 1525's and 1025's and earlier 730's) and the later versions, while improving false alarm immunity seemed to trade their sensitivity and performance IMHO. Given the need for a recessed unit, I'd choose the FG1625 over the GE/Sentrol units any day.
 
Burglar points should always be controllable by the host panel and never 24 hour.

DelInstallations,
 
I was actually looking at the TriTechs, but there are so many "flavors", not sure which one to go with.

 

[Del91574]

Blue line gen 2 will work in about 90-95% of the residential applications out there.

 

[Neurorad]

DEL - prior life?  Change jobs/career?

 

[Del91574]

@ Neuro:
 
I got into the security industry primarily in the high end residential market. My work profile split now is essentially 85/15. I'm primarily working on the enterprise level with the remaining percentage being divided between smaller commercial and high end residential.
 
My primary focus now is access control, control work, CCTV and fire, but the security aspect eats a whole world of products and installations.
 
Big difference from the days of installing Ademco (Honeywell) Vista panels and the like. I ran a lot of wire and installed a lot of hardware back in the day. Now I'm more "parts and smarts" and let someone else do the grunt work.

 

[foxtail22]

I control my lighting through an ISY and use ELK rules to control the lighting as well as security, fire, and misc other items.   I use Insteon motion detectors for my light triggers but use separate hard wired motion detectors for my security support.  The motion detectors used in security systems are usually set to be less sensitive to avoid false trigger of the security system,   For lighting control, you want the detectors set to be more sensitive to motion so they trigger quickly and turn on the lights you control with them as soon as you enter the area.