Need help deciding on HA solution

[BraveSirRobbin]

I think that is true only to a certain extent e. There are other factors that may need to be considered that are very situational.

For instance, three years ago, when I purchased this house, there was (maybe still is) a housing shortage here. If you can believe this, people were actually waiting overnight the evening before a housing tract would release homes for sale (this actually happened for the first phase of the tract I am in now).

If I wanted to get into this house, I needed to comply or else they wanted me to please get out of the way because I'm blocking the door for people wanting to buy this house WITH full compliance (and needless to say there was a huge WAF influence also). So, I had to resort to negotiations.

Now, in my friends case, where he is building his own home and hired his own general contractor, this is different BUT you should see what hassles he had to go through just to break ground!

So I believe YMMV big time on this issue!

 

[johnnynine]

For CQC, go to the Learn tab of the web site, then the Quick Tutorial section. That will give you a good, hands on trip through the product. You can also look through the Using CQC section.

It looks like CQC has a lot of capability but would require a lot of time writing and debugging event filters/actions/macros/etc in addition to creating a user interface.

I understand that everyone's needs and uses are different, however:

1. Are there template event filters/actions/macros/etc available?
2. Are there template user interfaces available?
3. Are there template web pages available?

It would help if I could just cut and paste portions that I want to incorporate.

 

[Steve]

Johnny,

CQC can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be. It is a little tough to get a good grasp of it. As far as out of the box templates, it really does not come with any because you can pretty much go in any direction and its hard to have templates that will work with everyones equipment. But even something simple has been suggested many times. This has been debated on the CQC forums. There is now a user area to share templates. Also, IVB is putting together some basic stuff.

Events are new to CQC as CQCs primary direction is the pro home theater market with HA as kind of its secondary purpose. That said, once their hardware platform is ready I think you will see more and more HA features and improvements. For instance there will be more of a GUI based event controller.

So, events are there but must be written out. Actions can be configured via GUI in the interface designer. There is also a macro editor. If there is something specific you are looking for just ask on the CQC forum and either Dean or one of the members can whip something quick up for you.

Interfaces are very powerful once you just learn the widgets and what they do. There are a few samples around. The web stuff is just another widget for displaying web pages and there is a web server in Beta.

If you are going to use the Elk M1, CQC does have a very solid M1 driver. You can easily create most touch screen ready interfaces that interact with the M1 without writing any code or macros. I am not currently using any macros or other code and have a pretty feature rich set of screens hooked to the M1.

It just takes some time to get over the learning curve, same as Net Remote or MainLobby. If you want I can share specifics of the M1 and CQC integration.

 

[Dean Roddey]

Any product in this space can kind of go in two different directions. You can have a 'skinning' system which puts different looks over fixed (sets of) functionality. That allows you to quickly get some up that looks pretty, but it's far too limiting for the pro level market that CQC is primiarly targeting. CQC can support all kinds of devices, some of which we never even heard of becasue the customer or installer wrote a driver for some device and never even told us.

And once you get past the 'wow I can push a button and that thing turns on' stage, and really start thinking about where you want to go with your system, you quickly figure out that the real goal is 'activity oriented' automation, where you invoke high level functions that coordinate all kinds of stuff potentially to achieve some activity. It's just not possible to write generic logic to do that because everyone can have different devices with very different requirements and gotchas, and have very different ideas about what an optimum automation system should look like.

So CQC goes the other direction of providing a completely open ended system. It takes longer to get going, but it's very unlimited and you can take it anywhere you want to go. And since it was designed from the beginning to be that way, the tools are there to allow you to take it where you want to go. It is a very generic system, basically an extremely powerful toolkit, from which you can build the system you want.

Though it might seem a little steep at first, they are all steep in the end once you want to actually go beyond the initial demo type stage and really create a powerful, highly customized system that works just like you want it to. At that point, the benefits tend to swing from the systems that allow for quickly whipping together something to the ones that are designed specifically for the level of flexibility required for the pro market.

 

[johnnynine]

I'm getting closer to a solution and I'd like to get some comments to make sure I am going about things right. I am on a budget and would be purchasing things in stages as opposed to all at once. I'm more interested in getting the best bang for the buck than having the ultimate high dollar solution.

Possible solutions:
$ Elk M1/CQC/HAL2000
$$ Elk M1/Homeseer/MainLobby
$$$ Digital Media Reasearch/Control 4


Proposed Solution: Elk M1/CQC/HAL2000

Elk M1
$600 Elk M1 Kit
$144 Aditional Keypad
$62 M1XSP Serial Expander for thermostats
$58 M1RB Relay Board for irrigation
$215 Ethernet Port 1283XEP or M1XEP (Is there any reason for this since it already has a serial interface?)

Security
Insteon Lighting Interface
HVAC Interface via M1XSP Serial Expander
Irrigation via M1RB relay board
Voice announcements
-Can also upload custom wav files to ELK-124 or ELK-MV480.
-(limited vocab, maybe I should use CQC for voices and/or mp3 support?)
(NO ir, video, tts)

CQC
$300 All of CQC software

Computer/Touchscreen interfaces
-Main Lobby may be better for the interfaces, but not automation.
-(maybe use RAD-IO touch screens when they become available?)
Home Theater control via IR or RS232?
Scheduled events
Triggered events
Scheduled anouncements
Security Interface (integrates well with Elk M1)
HVAC interface
-Would I do this through the Elk M1 driver?
Text to Speech
(NO insteon interface at this time)
Caller ID (anounce and display)?

HAL2000
$370 HAL2000 CD
$95 HAL Internal PCI Voice Portal

Voice Recognition
-Home Seer does this to, but not as well.
-CQC might add at VR later?
-Security Interface
-HVAC Interface (or should I do this through CQC)
Answering Machine
Caller ID announcements if not using CQC

RCS RS485 thermostats
HVAC (suggested at http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showto...cognition&st=0)


Questions:

1. Is there any real reason to get the Elk M1 ethernet port? I can connect to it via serial and use CQC to send email notifications.

2. Since CQC does not support Insteon, can I pass commands from CQC through Elk M1 and on to Insteon?

3. Since the Elk M1 will interface the thermostats, can CQC communicate with the thermostats through the Elk M1? From the docs it looks like you can?

4. Since I will have CQC and the Elk M1's has a limited voice vocabulary should I use CQC for nicer TTS voices and/or mp3 support?

5. Will CQC be adding a voice recognition feature in the future?

6. What are some viable phone answering machine solutions other than HAL2000? Has anyone used the HAL2000 answering machine?

7. Does CQC have an export from an Outlook address book or csv file to it's one csv caller id format? (I suppose I could write my own, but to save time...)

8. I don't think the Elk M1 or HAL2000 support tv interfaces, but CQC probably has that potential?

9. I currently have no Home Theater components that support RS232, which from what I understand is better than using IR. Is anyone awary "affordable" HT components that support RS232 control?

Thanks,
Johnny

 

[kwoodrow]

Johnny:

I can't offer much advice on the HA aspects of your question, b/c I'm just getting into HA myself. But I do currently use CQC for all of my home theater automation. Like you, most of my original HT components were IR controlled. But I slowly started upgrading them to RS232 because I wanted touchscreen control and two-way feedback. The most significant upgrades I made were to the pre/pro and the DVD player. The pre/pro I chose was an Outlaw 990 -- highly regarded as a low-cost item with high-end features. Dean helped me to develop a CQC driver for it. I also upgraded my DVD player to a used Denon 2900, again, a highly-regarded DVD player. I saved $$ by buying used. The new version of this player, the 2910, has dropped RS232 control, btw. If you're interested in a receiver rather than a pre/pro, many of the Denons have RS232 and are excellent choices. I think there's a thread on the CQC forum with a list of RS232-controllable receivers and DVD players.

I still use IR to control my HD DirecTiVo because it doesn't have any type of serial control. Fortunately, although I can't get two-way feedback from it, IR control using an USB-UIRT connected to my CQC machine has never failed.

FWIW, I think the Elk/CQC is a winning combo. Both products are well-supported and have a growing feature set. The Elk gives you solid-state reliability for your most critical systems while CQC gives you high-level control and attractive user interfaces on touchscreens, CE.NET devices, PDAs, and RedRadio I/O touchscreens. If you haven't seem them already, check out some of my user interfaces here.

- Ken

 

[Steve]

Johnny: See my responses in blue below. You would want either HAL or CQC to go with the M1, using both would be redundant. If VR is the crucial piece, look closer at HAL, if interface design and supplemental HA to the M1 are your goals, then CQC or ML/HS or Girder/NR (Elk support in Beta) are your options.

Proposed Solution: Elk M1/CQC/HAL2000

Elk M1
$600 Elk M1 Kit
$144 Aditional Keypad
$62 M1XSP Serial Expander for thermostats
$58 M1RB Relay Board for irrigation
$215 Ethernet Port 1283XEP or M1XEP (Is there any reason for this since it already has a serial interface?)

Security
Insteon Lighting Interface
HVAC Interface via M1XSP Serial Expander
Irrigation via M1RB relay board
Voice announcements
-Can also upload custom wav files to ELK-124 or ELK-MV480. (Possible but expensive and tedious)
-(limited vocab, maybe I should use CQC for voices and/or mp3 support?) (Yes, or you can use both)
(NO ir, video, tts)

CQC
$300 All of CQC software

Computer/Touchscreen interfaces
-Main Lobby may be better for the interfaces, but not automation.
-(maybe use RAD-IO touch screens when they become available?)
Home Theater control via IR or RS232?
Scheduled events
Triggered events
Scheduled anouncements
Security Interface (integrates well with Elk M1)
HVAC interface
-Would I do this through the Elk M1 driver? (Connects to M1, control thru M1 or SW driver)
Text to Speech
(NO insteon interface at this time) (Don't need it - do lighting through M1, only interface via CQC)
Caller ID (anounce and display)?

HAL2000
$370 HAL2000 CD
$95 HAL Internal PCI Voice Portal

Voice Recognition
-Home Seer does this to, but not as well.
-CQC might add at VR later?
-Security Interface
-HVAC Interface (or should I do this through CQC)
Answering Machine
Caller ID announcements if not using CQC

If VR is an absolute must, use HAL . Otherwise if you want HA and interface design, use CQC. I would suspect VR will be added to CQC but probably not as good as HAL's, at least not for a long time.

RCS RS485 thermostats
HVAC (suggested at http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showto...cognition&st=0)


Questions:

1. Is there any real reason to get the Elk M1 ethernet port? I can connect to it via serial and use CQC to send email notifications.
Advantages of the XEP are that it would give you unencumbered access to the M1. You can connect via any network cable or wireless. Serial you must be at a fixed PC that is wired to control, or laptop plugged into control. Also you only have 1 main port so CQC and RP can not be connected at the same time so you would have to use the serial to IP program somewhere or you'll be swapping cables when you want to use RP. Plus, the XEP gives you the ability to send email which is nice.

2. Since CQC does not support Insteon, can I pass commands from CQC through Elk M1 and on to Insteon?
You will most likely want to control your lighting via the M1 and its rules and use CQC just for the interface. But yes, you could use the CQC driver to control your lighting.

3. Since the Elk M1 will interface the thermostats, can CQC communicate with the thermostats through the Elk M1? From the docs it looks like you can?
Absolutely

4. Since I will have CQC and the Elk M1's has a limited voice vocabulary should I use CQC for nicer TTS voices and/or mp3 support?
You can always use a nice TTS voice with CQC in addition to the M1's voice. Just keep in mind they are completely independent and they couldn't both talk at the same time. Most likely not an issue unless you have a lot of voice stuff going on in both sides.

5. Will CQC be adding a voice recognition feature in the future?
My guess is yes, down the road, but Dean would have to answer this. Right now they are concentrating on their hardware platform and HT stuff.

6. What are some viable phone answering machine solutions other than HAL2000? Has anyone used the HAL2000 answering machine?
I think Dean will be adding phone/voicemail support to CQC sometime this year. Also, as Electron points out you should be able to use a 3rd party voicemail app and interface in with CQC either via a web interface or perhaps with CQC app control.

7. Does CQC have an export from an Outlook address book or csv file to it's one csv caller id format? (I suppose I could write my own, but to save time...)
CQC will support CID and other stuff more fully with their VM/phone stuff. Right now CID is supported via a user written driver but should be fine for basic CID.

8. I don't think the Elk M1 or HAL2000 support tv interfaces, but CQC probably has that potential?
TV interfaces? You mean video or IR? That would be separate from the M1 but CQC can do the IR and interface to certain video devices.

9. I currently have no Home Theater components that support RS232, which from what I understand is better than using IR. Is anyone awary "affordable" HT components that support RS232 control?
I'll defer to others on this, I don't use any either.