Need whole house audio recommendations

[86turbodsl]

Ok, I just had the sheetrock go up, and I pre-wired about 7-8 zones with single gang LV j-boxes and cat5 and audio to each one.
I then ran speaker wire to each speaker location and tucked into the rafters for later.

I'm befuddled by the different systems out there.

A-bus sounds interesting, but I'm not sure if it meets my needs.

I'm looking for two channels that each zone can select from, although more might be nice...

Would two recievers in the wiring closet and each keypad location can select from either one be possible?

I figured the cat 5 would be for selection, volume control or whatever, and the audio would be carried on the audio cable, but
perhaps that's not the way it works.

I want this to be fairly inexpensive, so spending 2K is not an option.

Anyone have ideas?

Basic wants at each location - simple controls, A/B select, no display needed. Manual control required, we don't want lots of IR remotes floating
around the house, although capability for that would be nice for me, not wife.

thanks

EDIT: Stuff I forgot: Two main sources wanted - 1. FM Radio 2. MP3's off the server. Not looking to have CD/DVD/Tape/whatever at each zone.

 

[RobWalker]

Your wiring sounds great, but I think you'll have trouble fully populating the system for < $2K.

Most dedicated controllers seem to max out at 6 zones per unit, so if you really need 7/8 you need two which bumps the price a lot. Can you combine a couple of zones that are likely always going to be playing the same thing? You will need a separate amp for the extra speaker load. but that's a lot cheaper than another controller.

On the source front you need to think about how many mp3 streams off a server you want -- would different zones need to be able to playback different tracks. In this case you will need a multi-output sound card, and the control interface becomes much more DIY. There are dedicated media servers that fit into the name brand HA product lines ... but they cost a fortune for what you get IMHO ... and would certainly blow the $2K budget.

Another option would be to look at something like the Squeezebox devices, where the playback device is situated in each room and you are just using the in wall/ceiling speakers.

 

[nightwalker]

Most multi zone, multi source systems I've seen use speaker wire, cat5 and at least 22ga 2 conductor wire home run to the equipment to operate. The 22ga is what powers the keypads.

I know the russound, elan, niles systems are configured that way. The Abus system might work for you with the addition of the 4 source 4 zone module, You might even make it within budget. For the money, using a quality speaker it does a very nice job.

 

[felixrosbergen]

Most multi zone, multi source systems I've seen use speaker wire, cat5 and at least 22ga 2 conductor wire home run to the equipment to operate. The 22ga is what powers the keypads.

I know the russound, elan, niles systems are configured that way. The Abus system might work for you with the addition of the 4 source 4 zone module, You might even make it within budget. For the money, using a quality speaker it does a very nice job.

Last time i checked the documentation...(and i must make clear i have not installed one of these myself yet) the Russound RNet (CAV/CAM) didnt need the 22ga wire, the keypad is powered of the cat5. I don't know if A-Bus is any different.

I thought Cat5 and speaker wire allowed pretty much any configuration, had not heard about the 22/2. Somebody please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[nightwalker]

My mistake, I went back and checked my manuals, the only one still using the extra wire for power is the elan via pads. They all do still use it if you want to enable the external IR support.

The Abus only needs cat5 with the speaker wire going from the pad to the speakers, the other systems only need the cat5 to the keypad/touchscreen. The speaker is home run from speakers to controller directly.

sorry about the confusion.

 

[86turbodsl]

Your wiring sounds great, but I think you'll have trouble fully populating the system for < $2K.

Most dedicated controllers seem to max out at 6 zones per unit, so if you really need 7/8 you need two which bumps the price a lot. Can you combine a couple of zones that are likely always going to be playing the same thing? You will need a separate amp for the extra speaker load. but that's a lot cheaper than another controller.

On the source front you need to think about how many mp3 streams off a server you want -- would different zones need to be able to playback different tracks. In this case you will need a multi-output sound card, and the control interface becomes much more DIY. There are dedicated media servers that fit into the name brand HA product lines ... but they cost a fortune for what you get IMHO ... and would certainly blow the $2K budget.

Another option would be to look at something like the Squeezebox devices, where the playback device is situated in each room and you are just using the in wall/ceiling speakers.

I wanted to stay away from dedicated media players in each zone mainly for cost reasons, but also because the house is a replica queen anne victorian, and I am trying to stay away from a lot
of high tech looking devices in each room. Most stuff is hidden or camoflaged.

 

[86turbodsl]

My mistake, I went back and checked my manuals, the only one still using the extra wire for power is the elan via pads. They all do still use it if you want to enable the external IR support.

The Abus only needs cat5 with the speaker wire going from the pad to the speakers, the other systems only need the cat5 to the keypad/touchscreen. The speaker is home run from speakers to controller directly.

sorry about the confusion.

Ok, so A-bus is a possibilty. I'm not up on that sort of thing. Is that the in-wall amps with source selection? This may be beyond what I'm looking for.
My thought was to have a couple of channels that play continuous music and you select between them with a switch and have a volume knob at each location.
That only leaves source cuiing to a touchpanel in a central location. Decisions decisions.....

 

[DavidL]

My mistake, I went back and checked my manuals, the only one still using the extra wire for power is the elan via pads. They all do still use it if you want to enable the external IR support.

The Abus only needs cat5 with the speaker wire going from the pad to the speakers, the other systems only need the cat5 to the keypad/touchscreen. The speaker is home run from speakers to controller directly.

sorry about the confusion.

Ok, so A-bus is a possibilty. I'm not up on that sort of thing. Is that the in-wall amps with source selection? This may be beyond what I'm looking for.
My thought was to have a couple of channels that play continuous music and you select between them with a switch and have a volume knob at each location.
That only leaves source cuiing to a touchpanel in a central location. Decisions decisions.....

Well, Mainlobby works with both Russound Cav6 and Elan S12 (and others). But, the touchpanel (~$1000 - 2400) and the software will definately go through a $2K budget. You can wire and provision for it as a later addon.

 

[86turbodsl]

Well, Mainlobby works with both Russound Cav6 and Elan S12 (and others). But, the touchpanel (~$1000 - 2400) and the software will definately go through a $2K budget. You can wire and provision for it as a later addon.

Nah, the touchpanels are the EASY part. There's tons of ways to DIY there. The hardware I can't make for the audio stuff is the hard part.

 

[royalj7]

I have to echo the concern of getting this done for less than 2K, especially with the number of zones you want. I think A-bus would be the best way to go but there are two caveats I can think of. First is your wiring. It wasn't clear in your first post, but did you loop the speaker wire back through the keypad location before going to your headend? A-bus requires CAT5 from the headend to the keypad/amp, and speaker wire from the keypad to the speakers. Second, I don't know of any Abus system that goes over 4 zones, though there very well might be one. You could check and see if the 4 zone systems can be daisy chained to get more zones. Also, does you budget excluded speakers?

--Jamie

 

[jwilson56]

Ok, I just had the sheetrock go up, and I pre-wired about 7-8 zones with single gang LV j-boxes and cat5 and audio to each one.
I then ran speaker wire to each speaker location and tucked into the rafters for later.

I'm befuddled by the different systems out there.

A-bus sounds interesting, but I'm not sure if it meets my needs.

I'm looking for two channels that each zone can select from, although more might be nice...

Would two recievers in the wiring closet and each keypad location can select from either one be possible?

I figured the cat 5 would be for selection, volume control or whatever, and the audio would be carried on the audio cable, but
perhaps that's not the way it works.

I want this to be fairly inexpensive, so spending 2K is not an option.

Anyone have ideas?

Basic wants at each location - simple controls, A/B select, no display needed. Manual control required, we don't want lots of IR remotes floating
around the house, although capability for that would be nice for me, not wife.

thanks

EDIT: Stuff I forgot: Two main sources wanted - 1. FM Radio 2. MP3's off the server. Not looking to have CD/DVD/Tape/whatever at each zone.

A setup like my Now Playing 2008 would be under 2K. I have 6 independant zones with 200W per zone RMS and each zone has its own FM tuner as well as being able to play its own playlist/CD from a 800 disk library of lossless material. All tucked into a central location and controlled via touch screens using Net Remote and my own skin.

Have you checked out my showcase?

John

http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=2444

 

[DavidL]

OK, if the touchpanels are the easy part, then you can output the audio out of a PC sound card to dirt cheap stereo IR controlled amplifiers that you can find in garage sales and ebay. Route the high level audio via speaker cable to your speakers and you have a cheap multizone distributed audio system.

The software will be the key and center at that point.

 

[86turbodsl]

I have to echo the concern of getting this done for less than 2K, especially with the number of zones you want. I think A-bus would be the best way to go but there are two caveats I can think of. First is your wiring. It wasn't clear in your first post, but did you loop the speaker wire back through the keypad location before going to your headend? A-bus requires CAT5 from the headend to the keypad/amp, and speaker wire from the keypad to the speakers. Second, I don't know of any Abus system that goes over 4 zones, though there very well might be one. You could check and see if the 4 zone systems can be daisy chained to get more zones. Also, does you budget excluded speakers?

--Jamie

Ok, to be clear:

I have CAT5 AND speaker 16/4 to each keypad location from wiring closet.
I have 16/2/4 from each keypad location to each speaker location.

per the guide.

The 2K does not include speakers, which will be deployed slowly.

 

[86turbodsl]

A setup like my Now Playing 2008 would be under 2K. I have 6 independant zones with 200W per zone RMS and each zone has its own FM tuner as well as being able to play its own playlist/CD from a 800 disk library of lossless material. All tucked into a central location and controlled via touch screens using Net Remote and my own skin.

Have you checked out my showcase?

John

http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=2444

I have looked at your setup a bit. The trouble with touchscreens everywhere is you usually need a computer to run them, and
I've recently become aware of the amount of electricity I'm consuming with 4 pc's running 24/7 in the house right now.

A bit off topic, but my total HA setup will be as follows:

High end linux server in basement running:
Mythtv backend
Asterix backend
Home automation duty - maybe housebot in a wine shell

Lighting is centralite
Security is Elk M1

Each TV location gets a small diskless PC that can be shut off easily

The whole house audio is ??

The only two computers I want in the house to run 24/7 are the linux server and the firewall box.

All media gets stored on the server. Any system like JWilson's would need to be supplied on audio cards in the server.
I'm not sure if the motherboard I pick for the server will have lots of PCI slots to use.

I may be able to get the zones down to 5, but not 4. So I think I'm stuck with two sound cards minimum.

I like the idea of your setup Jwilson, but don't know if i like the idea of having a remote in each zone to control the stereo.
The thought was that I have a touchscreen upstairs and a touchscreen downstairs to set the music going, and then use
volume controls in each zone to turn volume / on / off.

I'm starting to see that multizoned multisourced audio gets very complicated very quickly....

 

[DavidL]

Multizone audio is not all that difficult, as long as you don't make it so....
Products like MainLobby / MusicLobby enable multizone audio in literally an hour or so (not including the hardware installation).

Not sure if there is a Linux based strong alternative that keeps it as simple.

A setup like my Now Playing 2008 would be under 2K. I have 6 independant zones with 200W per zone RMS and each zone has its own FM tuner as well as being able to play its own playlist/CD from a 800 disk library of lossless material. All tucked into a central location and controlled via touch screens using Net Remote and my own skin.

Have you checked out my showcase?

John

http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=2444

I have looked at your setup a bit. The trouble with touchscreens everywhere is you usually need a computer to run them, and
I've recently become aware of the amount of electricity I'm consuming with 4 pc's running 24/7 in the house right now.

A bit off topic, but my total HA setup will be as follows:

High end linux server in basement running:
Mythtv backend
Asterix backend
Home automation duty - maybe housebot in a wine shell

Lighting is centralite
Security is Elk M1

Each TV location gets a small diskless PC that can be shut off easily

The whole house audio is ??

The only two computers I want in the house to run 24/7 are the linux server and the firewall box.

All media gets stored on the server. Any system like JWilson's would need to be supplied on audio cards in the server.
I'm not sure if the motherboard I pick for the server will have lots of PCI slots to use.

I may be able to get the zones down to 5, but not 4. So I think I'm stuck with two sound cards minimum.

I like the idea of your setup Jwilson, but don't know if i like the idea of having a remote in each zone to control the stereo.
The thought was that I have a touchscreen upstairs and a touchscreen downstairs to set the music going, and then use
volume controls in each zone to turn volume / on / off.

I'm starting to see that multizoned multisourced audio gets very complicated very quickly....