with another recent spate of neighborhood break-ins, the HOA is finally open to exploring the idea of neighborhood cameras to monitor activity, particularly during the day when most people are at work (so, night time visibility for cameras is typically less important). can anybody make any recommendations about the easiest or most efficient way to set-up and monitor 12 - 15 cameras across a neighborhood that spans 1000 ft x 1500 ft? is it possible to do wireless cameras on this great a range? would normal cameras or IP cameras be best for this application? you know, these types of things... thanks
Neighborhood-wide monitoring
- Thread starter DeLicious
- Start date
We had a client once that installed a couple cameras pointed at the only way in and out of the area. There was only one enterance so he had a record of every vehical and licence plate that was in the neighborhood.
Dave
sounds like a good plan in principle, but my neighborhood is not set up in a way that's terribly easy to do that. since the large LARGE majority of serious criminal activity (not counting the occasional smashed mailbox) happens in the alleyways (vandalism, theft from parked cars in driveways, and burglary of houses accessed through the back), it is easier to monitor the entrances and exits of the alleys. plus, the only people that should be in the alleys are residents, so if we can gather a list of vehicles that belong to residents, it should be fairly easy to identify suspicious vehicles on a daily basis.
123
Senior Member
Providing video-security to monitor alleyways in an area covering 1000x1500 ft (1,500,000 sq.ft) is a challenging proposition. This large area is a collection of private homes and not a homogeneous structure like a shopping mall or commercial property.
Here are a few points to ponder:
Cameras
Where will the cameras be installed? Attached to structures on private property? Powered by individual homeowners? Will they want to be reimbursed for providing 'right-of-way' or electricity? Wired cameras present too many installation headaches for such a large area ... wireless won't be cheap either.
DVR
Where will it reside? Who will manage it and collect video evidence? Will someone be 'on call' to tend to the DVR? Maybe this function could be outsourced?
Funding
Who pays for the purchase plus the ongoing maintenance (i.e. equipment failures, additional cameras, etc)? Maybe your HOA can split the bill with city hall as part of a public/private partnership to 'help reduce crime'. It would help if you could make it look like the mayor's creative idea ... otherwise this project, a private response to a lack of police presence, will give the mayor a public-relations blackeye.
Here are a few points to ponder:
Cameras
Where will the cameras be installed? Attached to structures on private property? Powered by individual homeowners? Will they want to be reimbursed for providing 'right-of-way' or electricity? Wired cameras present too many installation headaches for such a large area ... wireless won't be cheap either.
DVR
Where will it reside? Who will manage it and collect video evidence? Will someone be 'on call' to tend to the DVR? Maybe this function could be outsourced?
Funding
Who pays for the purchase plus the ongoing maintenance (i.e. equipment failures, additional cameras, etc)? Maybe your HOA can split the bill with city hall as part of a public/private partnership to 'help reduce crime'. It would help if you could make it look like the mayor's creative idea ... otherwise this project, a private response to a lack of police presence, will give the mayor a public-relations blackeye.
all interesting points.
Cameras
I envision the cameras being installed on power-line posts... I bet we would have to get clearance from the power supply company first, though. Otherwise, I suppose we could just install our own posts. As for power, that I don't know either... see, this is why I ask these questions
DVR
The DVR would likely reside in the residence of a homeowner approved by the HOA, likely me or the president of the HOA. It wouldn't really be used except as a post-incident log for identification purposes. Although if it were net-connected, and resident could access it, which then would require probably some sort of commercial web connection since that much bandwidth would be flagged on a residential connection as a violation of terms.
Funding
I had just assumed it would be funded by the HOA, but again, I'm not sure how much this type of enterprise would cost. As for going straight to City Hall, forget it. Dallas is a huge city, and I doubt they care about the fortunes of one small neighborhood. Now, as for going to the local police precinct and asking for their help, that might be a way to go.
Cameras
I envision the cameras being installed on power-line posts... I bet we would have to get clearance from the power supply company first, though. Otherwise, I suppose we could just install our own posts. As for power, that I don't know either... see, this is why I ask these questions
DVR
The DVR would likely reside in the residence of a homeowner approved by the HOA, likely me or the president of the HOA. It wouldn't really be used except as a post-incident log for identification purposes. Although if it were net-connected, and resident could access it, which then would require probably some sort of commercial web connection since that much bandwidth would be flagged on a residential connection as a violation of terms.
Funding
I had just assumed it would be funded by the HOA, but again, I'm not sure how much this type of enterprise would cost. As for going straight to City Hall, forget it. Dallas is a huge city, and I doubt they care about the fortunes of one small neighborhood. Now, as for going to the local police precinct and asking for their help, that might be a way to go.
Basicallly you will need to startup your own WISP (wireless internet service provider) less the internet part. This will entail a tower or other object that has line of sight or near line of site with most of the neighborhood but isn't more ten say 100' tall.
Then you lockdown all the entraces/exits, weather you like it or not if the system is to work this is a basic requirement.
Then you allow the individual homeowners to purchase a client access unit and IP camera and donate the power to run it. They can buy 1 or 100 it's up to them.
This will cost well into the tens of thousands to be done correctly. By allowing the individual homeowners the ability to add to the system you will get much more bang for the community buck.
The DVR alone in that case will probably $6-10k.
Thats all real world, it'll work. For like $5k you can get some wifi IP cams that work sometimes and can't really identify anything.
Then you lockdown all the entraces/exits, weather you like it or not if the system is to work this is a basic requirement.
Then you allow the individual homeowners to purchase a client access unit and IP camera and donate the power to run it. They can buy 1 or 100 it's up to them.
This will cost well into the tens of thousands to be done correctly. By allowing the individual homeowners the ability to add to the system you will get much more bang for the community buck.
The DVR alone in that case will probably $6-10k.
Thats all real world, it'll work. For like $5k you can get some wifi IP cams that work sometimes and can't really identify anything.
that's the kind of info i was looking for... thanks collin.
if we could convince most people in the neighborhood to set up wireless routers, could we connect 75 or so wireless routers together to get the same type of wireless coverage as the 100 ft tower? you know, assign them all to the same local network and create a mesh throughout the neighborhood? that way, any camera that we want to place throughout the neighborhood would be close to at least one access point?
if we could convince most people in the neighborhood to set up wireless routers, could we connect 75 or so wireless routers together to get the same type of wireless coverage as the 100 ft tower? you know, assign them all to the same local network and create a mesh throughout the neighborhood? that way, any camera that we want to place throughout the neighborhood would be close to at least one access point?
Not really, consumer wifi routers aren't going to work for a variety or reasons. Look to spend about $4-500 per client connection unit and each unit to support say a maximum of 5 VGA MPEG4 streams.
If you want mesh technology the price will jump significantly (almost $2k per client connection). This is simply point to multipoint with the assumption that you don't have large noise generators in the area.
You can quite possibly get away with a tower shorter then 100' but you cannot go much taller without picking up a bunch of noise from the surroundings.
If you want mesh technology the price will jump significantly (almost $2k per client connection). This is simply point to multipoint with the assumption that you don't have large noise generators in the area.
You can quite possibly get away with a tower shorter then 100' but you cannot go much taller without picking up a bunch of noise from the surroundings.
123
Senior Member
I'll throw this idea out see if it'll fly:
Each participant has:
- one IP camera.
- a residential broadband connection.
- a router able to support VPNs.
You have a DVR.
Create a VPN common to all participants.
Each participant's camera dumps its data to your DVR via the VPN.
Let me throw the first few bricks:
Your ISP may have something to say about this arrangement.
Your ISP may not care because of the money raked in from everyone exceeding their monthly bandwidth.
One way around the "residential broadband" issue is to "go commercial". Do a cost/benefit analysis of setting up a wireless infrastructure versus outfitting all households with commercial-grade broadband connections. There may be an ISP in your area that would love to strike a great deal to acquire 50+ new commercial accounts.
Each participant has:
- one IP camera.
- a residential broadband connection.
- a router able to support VPNs.
You have a DVR.
Create a VPN common to all participants.
Each participant's camera dumps its data to your DVR via the VPN.
Let me throw the first few bricks:
Your ISP may have something to say about this arrangement.
Your ISP may not care because of the money raked in from everyone exceeding their monthly bandwidth.
One way around the "residential broadband" issue is to "go commercial". Do a cost/benefit analysis of setting up a wireless infrastructure versus outfitting all households with commercial-grade broadband connections. There may be an ISP in your area that would love to strike a great deal to acquire 50+ new commercial accounts.
The thing that scares me about this is determining who would be responsible for managing the DVR. I've seen a lot of cases where a DVR goes down or loses it's network connection or runs out of space or whatever and stops recording. If something happens to the DVR and it's at your house, then someone gets broken into and discovers that there's no video during that time I'd be very concerned that they'd try to sue you.
It might be better to have a monitoring service run the thing. That way not only will they be sure that it's running all, but if it's not then it's not you or another homeowner taking the blame if something happens.
Brett
How many break-ins are you talking about here vs the size of the community? I lived in a community of 1500 houses and we had maybe 2-3 breakins a year. Hardly worth the cost, time and effort associated with a project this size. Maybe you could get HOA funding for something smaller scale like signage and fake cameras in very conspicuous places and monitor of a period of X months to see if the crime wave is reduced. Honestly, for the money, you are probably better hiring 1-2 roving rent-a-cops to patrol the area. Sometimes the cost of the technology to solve a problem outweighs the benefit. IMHO.
