New construction - 7000 Sq. Ft. House

[pvrfan]

Thanks, Everyone! Will likely go with a QS solution, so I can get the conditional logic features. We were already past the central load option in our wiring. (next house! )
 
Switching gears to home audio is 14/2 Gauge CL3 oxygen free copper the way to go ? Or do you recommend something else.

[my bold]
 
The phrase "oxygen free copper" when in connection with audio cables exists only to separate fools from their money.  
 
A blog I follow had a wonderful series on this subject, eg:
 
http://www.mcelhearn.com/do-cables-make-a-difference-to-audio-playback/
 
Craig

 

[wkearney99]

Just be sure to avoid CCA (copper clad aluminum).  

 

[pete_c]

Personally here purchased 1000 foot spools of the audio cable.  Started here by running the 16/4 from the central closet to every room / box concurrent with CatXX relating to audio only.
 
Googling real quick see a 1000 foot spool of the 14/4 for around $400.00 here and 16/4 for $260.00 at the same place.
 
Looking here this morning at my cabling utilized 16/4 and 16/2 CL3 and I did go over my initial 1000 foot spools of audio cable.
 
Just thinking about your endeavor and seeing it  / guesstimating that you will be at closer to 50K in just hardware stuff really soon. (IE: QS + audio + )
 
Helped a friend a couple of years back doing his low voltage wiring for a new home build.  Purchased catxx, audio, 22/4 and 22/2 and kept that at below $4k with no terminations.  Thinking home was around 5-6k sf.

 

[Del91574]

Wire gage can be 12-18.   It depends on the length of run, speaker impedance, and power loss you are willing to accept.   The ANSI-TIA-EIA-570 standard has some specific recommendations.   
 
Here is the guide that I used:
 
0-25 ft   18ga
25-50ft   16ga
50-75ft    14ga
75+ ft      12ga
 
I used CL2 oxygen free copper

Instead of going old-school and pulling miles of heavy cable, I'd recommend looking at a real amp, either a 25/50/70V solution with coupled transformers for the speakers and call it a day.
 
You can get the same audio quality, but you're going to be able to get commercial duty items that will last and you'll have a better selection.....not to mention the savings on the cabling!

 

[thing]

What do you guys think of the new Power Over Ethernet (PoE) LED Lighting?

 

[wkearney99]

Meh, "new" and automated lighting does not often meet the minimum WAF.  Tried and true might be more expensive, but the stress costs more than you might think...
 
What make/model are you looking at for PoE lighting?  I've never seen anything like that.

 

[Del91574]

You're not going to see POE anytime soon in a residence unless it's an one-off build, it's too new, too few items on the market and going to require a heck of a lot of infrastructure and commitment to install, which is also going to limit it's adaptation, not to mention code enforcement and understanding from AHJ's.....we've had issues getting them to understand POE for security devices and allow their installation as many of the first and second gen devices out there didn't have an appropriate UL listing or ambiguous at best.
 
For an office based application, where a retrofit or fresh build out is possible, it might be attractive, especially for a LEED cert. or the related subsidies or kickbacks.

 

[mikefamig]

You're not going to see POE anytime soon in a residence unless it's an one-off build, it's too new, too few items on the market and going to require a heck of a lot of infrastructure and commitment to install, which is also going to limit it's adaptation, not to mention code enforcement and understanding from AHJ's.....we've had issues getting them to understand POE for security devices and allow their installation as many of the first and second gen devices out there didn't have an appropriate UL listing or ambiguous at best.
 
For an office based application, where a retrofit or fresh build out is possible, it might be attractive, especially for a LEED cert. or the related subsidies or kickbacks.

 
DEL
 
I was considering POE for cameras in my house. If not POE then how do you deal with power distribution to camera locations? Is it a transformer for each cam?
 
Mike.

 

[pete_c]

First time here reading about POE lighting. Interesting stuff.

 

[drvnbysound]

DEL
 
I was considering POE for cameras in my house. If not POE then how do you deal with power distribution to camera locations? Is it a transformer for each cam?
 
Mike.

 
If NOT POE, there are 2 options I can think of. 1) Network cameras with separate wiring for power; camera specific, but usually either 12VDC or 24VAC. In most cases these are connected to PDUs rather than individual transformers. 2) Would be analog cameras with the same for PDU option(s) for power.
 
My first CCTV system was an analog DVR with a separate PDU box. I've since upgraded to POE cameras and wouldn't go any other way today.

 

[mikefamig]

First time here reading about POE lighting. Interesting stuff.

How does that work?

 

[mikefamig]

First time here reading about POE lighting. Interesting stuffignore my last question, I found this

http://www.innovativelight.com/commercial-industrial-led-lighting/poe-led-lighting/poe-lighting-solutions-demonstration/

 

[mikefamig]

If NOT POE, there are 2 options I can think of. 1) Network cameras with separate wiring for power; camera specific, but usually either 12VDC or 24VAC. In most cases these are connected to PDUs rather than individual transformers. 2) Would be analog cameras with the same for PDU option(s) for power.
 
My first CCTV system was an analog DVR with a separate PDU box. I've since upgraded to POE cameras and wouldn't go any other way today.

 
How is that preferable to POE? It seems to me that in either a new build or a retrofit the POE is going to involve pulling less wires and cost less for equipment.
 
Mike.

 

[pete_c]

Thanks Mike.
 
Yup here my analog Optex cameras are using a CCTV PDU.  I originally ran catXX (X2), coaxial and power cables.
Over time went to using catXX baluns for just video then later for video and power.
 

 
Today all of the new IP cameras are POE connected.  This too changed a bit as earlier IP cams were not POE.
 
Then too Ubiquiti went with a different voltage for their POE cameras.
 
I am guessing if you still need a heater for a camera you would have use something other than POE.
 
Early days of POE when there wasn't any was done by Cisco.  It did change. 
 
In a commercial environment initially utilized propietary Cisco AP's (and VOIP) with POE to Cisco POE switches way long time ago.
 
The standard did change and it was different than originally done up by Cisco. 
 
Personally it does work fine for residential use CCTV. 
 
I am noticing is propietary combo POE switches / VDR stuff and wondering if this has to do with the power draw on the IP cameras.  I mean most of them are rated at 1 AMP and come with a 1 AMP power supply.   Many of the little POE switches are made for VOIP telephones and typically have draw amperage limits total and per port.  I am currently using POE for my tablet top touchscreens and cams and it works for me.
 
Later came the Axis IP cameras initially done up with a local power supply then POE.  The issues that I dealt was was mixing of the security transport (CCTV) with the rest of the enterprise network and the volumes of traffic generated by the cameras.  Networking, network security and CCTV stuff all had their own money buckets (well play money) such that there were charge backs relating to upgrading the infrastructure and that caused some issues.  Today I do not know if it does cause issues in commercial money bucket environments. 
 
That and every little piece or mechanisms or topology of transport you put between a light (or whatever) you do decrease the resilence a bit. A light is a light is a light.
 
If the use of POE continues with different stuff not typically utilized (well like LEDs) then the POE standard might change again.  Thinking though we will hit those limits of what you can pass on a CatXX cable really soon.

 

[drvnbysound]

How is that preferable to POE? It seems to me that in either a new build or a retrofit the POE is going to involve pulling less wires and cost less for equipment.
 
Mike.

 
It's not at all preferable to me.
 
I'd have to let Del answer for himself, but I think above he was referring to certain AHJs lack of POE understanding and possibly not allowing it for certain installations...