HA System Control for 6500 sqft New Construction House

[AnthonyZ]

The "professionals" I was referring to are installers that have given me quotes in the $60,000-$80,000 range to install a whole-house system, far more $ than anyone needs to spend. My "professionals" comment was meant to convey my frustration that I've seen far more breath & depth of knowledge about Home Automation on this forum than from any of the "professional" installers in my area I've talked to about installing a system in my house. AnthonyZ--I apologize if you were offended by my "professionals" comment...don't be so sensitive!

CRISCO, you are clearly as greasy as your nickname implies.

First off, without more details, your comment that $60-80K for an install is "far more than anyone needs to spend" is without merit, substance or legitimacy. For you, sure but, for others and for incredibly robust systems, $60-80K is reasonable and, in some cases, light. Over the past year, I designed, installed and commissioned a $130K CQC based system. Needless to say, it was one hell of a rig and I spent approx. 11 weeks on the project (out of state) between Nov of '08 and Aug of '09. I suppose that despite the fact that you have no idea of what the system is capable of, that's probably exorbitant. It wasn't.

Second, don't offer me an apology and then take it back with a snide remark in the same sentence. It stinks of insincerity.

As for "pro" vs. DIY, I am, for the most part, clearly in the DIY camp. I just happen to make a living doing HA work (primarily, for the past two years, as a "consultant" for other dealers) I'm bored with the vast majority of what the professional market offers and the jobs they do. While I got into this industry via high end, custom AV, it's quite frankly boring to me compared to the creative, unique solutions that I see highlighted here at CT (and similar sites) everyday. That's why I call CT my home away from home. I'm not excited about chasing the same or similar GUI's (it seems that many professional systems look like Stepford versions of the same old thing). I'm bored with spec'ing gigs with the same or similar BOM's as my competitors and then having to fight tooth and nail with consumers to receive even the slightest margins on equipment that I've worked tirelessly over the years to become intimately familiar with. It's not a lot of fun to argue with clients, who have more money than God, over why I shouldn't have to subsidize the upfront materials costs on a project when they just want to hold on to the funds for another week's worth of compound interest. I would, it seems, rather find a niche in a different or adjusted business model and continue to enjoy the hell out of AV and automation than stick in the industry and getting to the point where I resent the whole shebang.

To answer another question raised earlier, I do offer "consultant" work to DIY'ers. There's an infinetesimal market for the work. There's little impetus to pursue and thus, I take those gigs as they "find" me rather than going after it aggressively. I do considerably better by working with other dealers or accepting the occasional gig of my own.

I, like others, do not want to see this entire thread get hijacked into an "Us vs. Them" type of argument. There are other venues for it. I will say, though that when a new member's very first post is vitriolic in tone, I will be the first to call BS.

I am also an avid DIY'er. I do the work that I can, when I can around my own home. From landscaping, to electrical to building, etc. I understand where the DIY mindset comes from. Further, I have spoken with a number of people in the last year about the possibility of me leaving the industry. I love it too much to allow my resentment for my clients to taint my enjoyment of the work itself.

 

[Digger]

Well I think that this thread is different from most on Cocoontech because the OP came looking for help (which is common). The problem was the way the OP immediately blasted all professionals, saying they charged too much and the OP could easily do the job BETTER THAN THE PROFESSIONALS. If that was the case, then why the need to ask for help with such a rudamentary (yet crucially important) question?

It's like someone blasting all mechanics as being too expensive - that anyone can change their oil and they can certainly do a better job than the mechanics - and then asking for help with how to change their oil.

PS - I can also understand that the OP is probably a little pissed at his Lifeware professionals and therefore may be blasting all professionals simply due to a typical "guilty by association" emotion. After all, he installed 125 Insteon switches based on their recommendations. I'd be a little pissed too. (Oh no, there I went and started a whole different argument )

I didn't mean to

I also hope that with a slight change of attitude, that the OP will continue to post questions and get good answers from the community. I really want my posts to show the OP the silliness of his thought processes. It is not my desire to shun, boycott, or torpedo the OP questions in the future.

Well now that you started a whole other arguement......... nah I wont go there other than to say that 125 Insteon devices in new construction is just insanity in my opinion. Money that could have been better spent in a much better and more reliable lighting product. I would be pissed at Lifeware to. But Lifeware is not representative of professionals that really understand the industry and would have recommended another product for that application.

 

[icellama21]

i just realized that no one has really answered the OP ... So here we go.

Security
GE Concord already installed. Shame. Otherwise I'd say toss in an HAI or Elk, even if you don't use the automation part, you'll always find a use for it later. Plus they can easily go with the house on resale, not so easy with software systems.

Lighting
Insteon chosen and installed. All you need now is an interface, either USB or RS232. Last time I checked the 2414 was the best item, I think things have changed, check around here for the posts by the Insteon evangelists. You will need to give some thought to different "scenes" or groups of lights you want to control. It can be as simple as creating a group for all of your outside lights, or as complex as different moods for a room. Also give some thought to automating lighting. You can give your house a lived-in effect when away with random timers or turn lights off after a period of no motion in a room, etc.

Whole House Audio
If you want to use most of the packages described here, stick with Russound or Nuvo, they are widely supported. Russound's Compoint is one of the better intercom systems out there and integrates well with the CAV6.6, something to think about. I don't know if Nuvo has anything similar in the intercom integration department.

HVAC
You will need 3 components to make this work. 1) Zone control dampers installed in your ducts if you want multiple zones. Other possibilities are putting dampers on central trunks or using multiple furnaces, etc. You just need a way to selectively distribute conditioned air. 2) A Zone control board. This interfaces the multiple thermostats, dampers and your HVAC equipment. 3) Communicating thermostats. These can be controlled by your automation system and control zones.

If you have only 1 zone, then you don't need a zone control panel or dampers, just a communicating thermostat. My advice is check out Aprilaire, opinions may vary, but I like their quality. RCS and HAI are good too. The HAI omnistats, RCS communicating thermostats and Aprilaire 8870 are widely supported thermostats amongst automation programs.

CCTV
At a minimum you want a DVR to record info and a few cameras. For door cameras look into IR or good low-light capabilities. You get what you pay for. Make sure your power supply is adequate too. The DVR can be seperate(recommended so it can be more easily hidden and is reliable for security) or integrated into a PC. If it is separate make sure it is IP accessible so you can view it over the internet and from and screen in the house. In a PC you will use a card and software to record video to your hard-drive. If you will have a home server running all day anyway, not a bad idea.

Automation Engine
If you want hardware go with either Elk M1 or HAI OmniProII. Since you have a Concord already and expressed a desire for software, CQC and Homeseer are good choices. Check out their free trials. My instinct is that you will eventually want something in hardware(think if your computer crashes while you are on vacation, poops while you are trying to do something etc) to control basic automation, but you can definitely start with all software for now. Your home server PC will need wired access to your Ethernet network(too many connections with things to make wireless as good an option), a large number of serial ports or USB-Serial adapters(most things still interface via RS232) and a good, reliable operating system(Stick with Windows XP for now ...) and simple hardware with minimal 3rd party drivers. You want to keep this running.

Home Theatre Control
Can be PC based, using something like Windows Media Center, SageTV, etc. I'd keep it seperate from your home automation server. It can get bogged down encoding video and serving it up, better not to have that extra lighting delay when you are watching a movie. Needs a lot of processor power and a big hard drive.

Can also have your automation engine control it via IR or RS232(if you have higher end components). IR distribution comes with a lot of whole house audio systems, otherwise check I'd recommend Xantech products for the most compatibility. You may want to put all of your boxes in one closet and control them remotely with either their remotes(pointed at IR receivers in each room) or through your automation engine.

Power
You'll need a lot. Preferable to get a large 12VDC power supply in your closet(at least 5A, probably a lot more) with either a battery backup or a UPS. Protect your home server with a UPS too. Use good surge suppression at 2 points, in each powerstrip/outlet and at the service panel or entrance. Don't forget to surge protect your telephone and CATV lines too. Wire your power distribution so it is easy to isolate/fuse devices and diagnose problems.

End user Control
Touchscreens are usually the best way to go. Can use full LCD touch monitors like the ELO products, or smaller wall and portable devices. Mount a few touchscreens permanently in major traffic areas and have at least one portable device to roam, home theater control, etc. There are two ways to do touchscreens. One is as a small computer client. The client can run either full Windows or Windows CE/mobile, check requirements of your automation engine. Devices in this category are things like a tablet PC, Samsung Q1(small portable touchscreen), WebDT, CUWIN(cheap wall-mount windows CE), iPhone, etc. The other way is to distribute DVI/VGA video and USB/Serial connections and run them all off your home server PC. Useful if the wiring can be done with baluns or is close to the home server PC. Otherwise easier to do client touchscreens.

You can also use IR devices like harmony/pronto remotes. Many engines have pronto capabilities to allow this. You can also control via IR from your distributed IR network and your home automation engine can read these and react.

Another option is dedicated wireless controllers. Can use X10 RF(W800 RS232 device), GE wireless keyfobs and buttons(done through your security panel) or Insteon controls for your lighting system.

Internet Control
Most automation engines come with a web server to access it remotely. Some now have iPhone or mobile phone interfaces. Many have telephone remote control so in a pinch if all fails you can call your house and initiate a reboot, check conditions, etc. At the very minimum the telephone and internet features are useful to send text messages, photos, emails and phone calls when something goes wrong in your house.

Sorry to be so brief, but this is way too much to go into detail over. Best to look around the forums and see for yourself. Good luck!

 

[Digger]

My opinion is that the OP changed from his original goals or that he got some really bad advice on how to get there (most likely the case and explains why he is hesitant to pay someone else to do the work).

If he wants to salvage the Insteon the ISY is probably the best investment out there. It works well with the ELK and Homeseer or just stand alone. Possibly works well with other hardware and software since I used it over a year ago. It can be set up in a day or so (with 125 devices it will take time). It is a rock solid product and has great support.

The GE is a fine panel for what it is but it is not really ideal for the OP goals (my opinion at least). Either ELK or HAI have panels more suitable for the OP goals. But it would be a shame to replace something just installed.

My advice is to get advice from several people/companies and take the best ideas from each and try and meld them into a real master plan (taking into consideration compatibility). If using a professional I would not pick someone based on a flashy website etc. I would try and see if there are some local installs that can be visited or a demo system at installers business or an employees home. Best to try before you buy so you know what you are getting.

If it makes the OP feel any better there are plenty of people who have gone down one road and went back and started over. I wasted over $4K on Insteon and replaced it with UPB (never regret going to UPB). I ripped out an Ademco panel I had put in (it was free at least and served its purpose at the time) and replaced it with an ELK (never regret that either).

 

[crisco]

WOW...what a food fight I started, definitely did not intend to do that.

I'll try to explain myself again, below. Thanks to all the guys who responded with info & opinions. I hate to be a newbie on this forum and start a ruckus, but I think you all can understand that I have to defend myself. I'll keep it clean, brief, and just explain.

Here's what I wrote: "Plus I think I can do a better, more thorough job than the "professionals", at a far cheaper price, via choosing the best, simplest, most capable system out there for the price."
Here's what I intended to convey: "For a complete, integrated system, the true professionals out there are simply outside my budget. If I do it myself, I can save a ton of money & design/install a totally tricked out system. Besides, I had a bad experience with one installer who called himself a professional, and was not impressed with two others in my area who gave me quotes."

There are obviously professionals out there that are well worth the $ they're paid, of which I'm sure AnthonyZ is one of. There are other "professionals" out there who aren't worth a dime. This is true for just about any profession, & these "professionals" are the ones I was referring to. I may be a forum newbie, but I don't need years of Home Automation Forum experience to know there are "professional HA hacks" out there--I've met them and talked with them. Most never frequent these forums, nor even know about their existence.

While my initial post may have been a little unthinking, your (AnthonyZ) replies were personal attacks & over-reactions. I don't have the time, nor the inclination to refute every line you wrote, nor does anyone on this forum want to read it.

 

[crisco]

I typically try to be helpful here at Cocoontech (as I believe most of us are) but, despite the fact that I think I have a lot to offer to the discussion, I'm gonna keep my mouth shut. I'm a lowly "professional" who could never equal your capabilities (even though you don't know what the hell you're doing and thus asking the same tired, old, boring question that prevents me from spending any time at AVS Forum). Best of luck to you.

There are two types of people installing HA for customers, there are *professionals*, and there are "professionals." The "professionals" that installed my neighbors system charged him $50k+ to install a system that doesn't do half of what my $1500 Elk install does. He was pissed when he came over and saw what I had done with mine and found out what the price was. I forget the name of the stuff he's using for HA, it was some brand I've never heard of before. Plus, they won't give him the capability to make changes to it himself. Every time he wants a rule changed, they come out with a laptop, make the change, and charge him $250 minimum.

I have a buddy that used to work for a local HA/Home Theatre place. They wouldn't touch anything under $100k, and this was over 10 years ago. Those guys knew what they were doing and would install well-supported equipment, and teach the homeowner how to make their own changes if they wanted that. Even though it was expensive stuff, it was on the cutting edge at the time. You can't say the same for many other installers. Between my neighbor's house, and the numerous stories I've heard of my buddy retrofitting houses from shoddy work or poor equipment choices, I'm under the impression that most installers are "professionals" and not *professionals*.

What percentage of installers frequent forums like this one or AVS Forum? There are thousands of installers out there, and I see a few on these forums. But, I don't see as many as I would hope. Either they know everything (doubtful), they are installing highly proprietary equipment with support solely from the manufacturer, or they are just whacking stuff in willy-nilly without full understanding of the capabilities.

As far as pricing goes, it really annoys me when I get a quote for something and the company quotes me some outrageous price for labor just because they think I either don't know how to do it, or I'm that averse to doing it that I will pay anything to get it done. Some of the quotes I've gotten for labor on things as simple as landscaping have worked out to be $750/hr or more (which I just ended up doing myself instead). Sure, installing HA is a skill that many people either don't want to learn, don't have the time to learn, or don't have the ability to learn. But if you're an installer and going into someone's house and quoting them $50k for 10 days of work and $8k worth of equipment and wiring (just like what happened with my neighbor), you're making yourself $525/hr in labor. Maybe some of these guys are super efficient and do great work which can justify a higher bill rate. But, the guys that did my neighbor's house completely took advantage of him and his lack of knowledge on the subject. Most of the time, it just insults me because the person giving me the quote assumes I'm a dumbass.

The big question is, how does one weed out the ""'s from the **'s? If 90% of the people out there give ridiculous quotes or install equipment with limited capabilities, then all that's going to do is motivate the homeowner to come to a site like this and start asking questions on how to do it themselves. The end result is the homeowner doing it themselves and succeeding, attempt to DIY and failing, or at least becoming better educated so they can make an informed decision when choosing an installer and being able to call BS when they see it.

Just the fact that you are a participating member here and on other forums shows that you likely know what you are doing and stay abreast on the latest tech, which is a whole hell of a lot more than anyone can say about most other companies out there. Unfortunately, you get the short end of the stick and lumped in with the bad guys when someone has a bad experience with any other installer. It would be the same deal if you were an auto mechanic, landscaper, attorney, doctor, or politician. There are good people in all of these fields, but the bad ones can really ruin the reputation for everyone else.

Yup, this has been my experience, and I'm trying to find the best system for me to do myself.

I had a "professional" begin my install (new construction) for a complete system, and then flaked out on me, never came back to finish the job, left me on my own. I was in the middle of building the house and didn't have the time to research the HA industry like I wanted to, so I shelved the whole project until now. They had run all the wires, but that was it. I had to get an independent installer to put in a GE Concorde Ultra panel to hook up my smokes just so I could get my CO to move into the house.

The "professional" also recommended Insteon switches. I had my electrician (along with me & help from SmartHome) install all of them. I'm finding out they're not the greatest, but I haven't given up on them yet. I've been talking to SmartHome, about to install 4 Access Points to help with signals. The reliability of my Insteon switches has been very poor--I've seen that a lot written on this & other forums. I've had probably 15-20 bad switches, & many more not functioning properly.

Anyway, thanks for the post. I'll post my Insteon problems/questions on another thread.

 

[crisco]

Crisco,

I am a die hard DIYer. But once you start this process, you will find out that the real professionals earn their money. Yes, you can almost certainly get a system installed yourself for a fraction of the cost. But you'll spend years doing it, and want to quit several times before it is all over. Don't enter this thinking it is going to be easy and fun - it's not either. Plus it will be more expensive than you initially think. Most of the savings we experience as DIYers comes from the fact that we don't mind installing used equipment and we don't have labor costs.

I bet if you were quoted $60,000 - $80,000 for the install, you'll spend at least $15,000 - $20,000 yourself buying some used equipment. Plus you'll literally spend hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of man hours making it all work.

Personally I'd never be able to afford a professionally installed system (or justify the expense - either to my wife or when I resold the house). I also like this type of thing and consider it a hobby. Those two major reasons are what pushed my to DIY. I don't regret that move one bit, but the process has also taught me the value of real professionals.

I'm the same way...can't justify (to the wife) spending that kind of money...plus it's a hobby, or about to be...I think the whole HA stuff is totally cool and love everything about it...your numbers are right on, & my budget is about $15,000-$20,000...If I paid someone, that budget wouldn't go very far. Thanks for the perspective!

 

[crisco]

I assume when the OP said "Better than professionals" he meant that he would learn the system and continue to tweak it himself and add to it for months or years after the initial install, versus an installer coming out and trying to get everything done in a week or two. At least that's what I'm thinking if I say I can do something better than a pro.

The OP got some good suggestions for software. He's probably reading the rest of these responses and shaking his head... or laughing maniacally at what he started.

Actually, I'm doing both (shaking my head & amazed at what I started)! And I'm re-reading every post five times before I hit the ADD REPLY button for fear I might piss somebody else off.

Signal15, thanks for interpreting my statement correctly & giving me the benefit of the doubt. No pro is going to want to take the time to tweak a system like I'm going to want to, nor can I pay a pro to do that kind of work.

 

[crisco]

My opinion is that the OP changed from his original goals or that he got some really bad advice on how to get there (most likely the case and explains why he is hesitant to pay someone else to do the work).

If he wants to salvage the Insteon the ISY is probably the best investment out there. It works well with the ELK and Homeseer or just stand alone. Possibly works well with other hardware and software since I used it over a year ago. It can be set up in a day or so (with 125 devices it will take time). It is a rock solid product and has great support.

The GE is a fine panel for what it is but it is not really ideal for the OP goals (my opinion at least). Either ELK or HAI have panels more suitable for the OP goals. But it would be a shame to replace something just installed.

My advice is to get advice from several people/companies and take the best ideas from each and try and meld them into a real master plan (taking into consideration compatibility). If using a professional I would not pick someone based on a flashy website etc. I would try and see if there are some local installs that can be visited or a demo system at installers business or an employees home. Best to try before you buy so you know what you are getting.

If it makes the OP feel any better there are plenty of people who have gone down one road and went back and started over. I wasted over $4K on Insteon and replaced it with UPB (never regret going to UPB). I ripped out an Ademco panel I had put in (it was free at least and served its purpose at the time) and replaced it with an ELK (never regret that either).

About the ISY, sounds like you have had some good luck with it? Did you ever consider the Houselinc2 software w/ the PLM, or I guess I'm assuming you considered it and ultimately went with the ISY? My question is what made you go with the ISY? I just ordered the Houselinc2 software & PLM modem, just so I could get my lighting setup (I can return it, hasn't even arrived yet.) Did you go with the ISY mainly so you wouldn't have to leave your PC running all the time & have to deal with PC reliability issues?

BTW, thanks for the info on you "writing-off" $4k on insteon. That's where I am right now, making those decisions as to whether I want to dump the GE Concorde ultra &/or the Insteon switches...I figure I should at least give them both a try before getting rid of them though. But nice to know that others have found it worth the $ to switch.

 

[Digger]

My opinion is that the OP changed from his original goals or that he got some really bad advice on how to get there (most likely the case and explains why he is hesitant to pay someone else to do the work).

If he wants to salvage the Insteon the ISY is probably the best investment out there. It works well with the ELK and Homeseer or just stand alone. Possibly works well with other hardware and software since I used it over a year ago. It can be set up in a day or so (with 125 devices it will take time). It is a rock solid product and has great support.

The GE is a fine panel for what it is but it is not really ideal for the OP goals (my opinion at least). Either ELK or HAI have panels more suitable for the OP goals. But it would be a shame to replace something just installed.

My advice is to get advice from several people/companies and take the best ideas from each and try and meld them into a real master plan (taking into consideration compatibility). If using a professional I would not pick someone based on a flashy website etc. I would try and see if there are some local installs that can be visited or a demo system at installers business or an employees home. Best to try before you buy so you know what you are getting.

If it makes the OP feel any better there are plenty of people who have gone down one road and went back and started over. I wasted over $4K on Insteon and replaced it with UPB (never regret going to UPB). I ripped out an Ademco panel I had put in (it was free at least and served its purpose at the time) and replaced it with an ELK (never regret that either).

About the ISY, sounds like you have had some good luck with it? Did you ever consider the Houselinc2 software w/ the PLM, or I guess I'm assuming you considered it and ultimately went with the ISY? My question is what made you go with the ISY? I just ordered the Houselinc2 software & PLM modem, just so I could get my lighting setup (I can return it, hasn't even arrived yet.) Did you go with the ISY mainly so you wouldn't have to leave your PC running all the time & have to deal with PC reliability issues?

BTW, thanks for the info on you "writing-off" $4k on insteon. That's where I am right now, making those decisions as to whether I want to dump the GE Concorde ultra &/or the Insteon switches...I figure I should at least give them both a try before getting rid of them though. But nice to know that others have found it worth the $ to switch.

The ISY is a great product that I chose to try and salvage my Insteon. The quality of the Insteon devices was so poor that I had to dump them and thus the ISY. If they come out with an ISY for UPB I would probably get one but to be honest I really dont need it since my UPB does everything the Insteon did (well not exactly since none of my UPB have died). Probably one reason they have not come out with a UPB ISY yet is that UPB does not need to be saved like Insteon.

The Houselinc Software is not made to control your devices only link them and provide some diagnostics. My opinion would be to skip it and go to the ISY (money well spent). Read for yourself that the Houselinc2 is still buggy and does not support all devices yet (I think the ISY is way ahead of it and SH writes the Houselinc). Go to Universal Devices forum and you will see much more activity there then on Smarthome's forum and where there is actual support from UDI. SH does not officially provide support online (they are a user to user forum per the moderator) where UDI has most of their employees on their forum helping out.

I saw you mention that you are having device failures and poor communications. My opinion is that is typical for Insteon and I will leave it at that since you have probably read the horror stories of many Insteon users on different forums.

 

[electron]

I would definitely make the ISY your highest priority, I think their web interface (from what I have seen, I use UPB as well) is one of the most user friendly programming interfaces out there (for both hardware and software).

 

[sic0048]

Crisco - thanks for replying back and clearing up some of your initial statements - and doing so in a non-confrontational manner.

Unfortunately, I have no advice on the lighting system. I haven't even started down that road myself (although I am looking at the Centralite Jetstream system for when I do).

There are many good software systems out there. I use CQC, so I am obviously a fan of it. I like that it is very robust and is constantly improving as well. While not the cheapest solution initially, they don't nickle and dime you for every device in the future either. But they do charge a $95 annual fee which allows you to get all the regular updates (which includes any new device driver that was written). This pricing structure allows you to easily predict and budget the future expenses. With the a-la-carte pricing, many times when you want to expand your system, you have to purchase additional software components as well.

 

[signal15]

Dump the GE and go with an ELK M1 Gold or an HAI. If you're budget is $15-20k, then that switch is only going to eat up $1000-1500. Maybe less. I have the ELK M1 Gold and I'm really happy with it.

Swapping out 125 switches is going to sting a bit though. If I already had them, I'd probably buy the interface kit for the ELK and try to make them work. Unless I put them on an Amex, in which case I would just call Amex's buyer protection dept and have them refund my money if the vendor won't. You'll still have to take them all out and send them to Amex before you get your money back, which means you'd have to replace them with UPB or whatever technology you choose before getting a refund. Amex rocks.

 

[AnthonyZ]

Dump the GE and go with an ELK M1 Gold or an HAI. If you're budget is $15-20k, then that switch is only going to eat up $1000-1500. Maybe less. I have the ELK M1 Gold and I'm really happy with it.

Swapping out 125 switches is going to sting a bit though. If I already had them, I'd probably buy the interface kit for the ELK and try to make them work. Unless I put them on an Amex, in which case I would just call Amex's buyer protection dept and have them refund my money if the vendor won't. You'll still have to take them all out and send them to Amex before you get your money back, which means you'd have to replace them with UPB or whatever technology you choose before getting a refund. Amex rocks.

If you're looking at a software based controller, the Elk or HAI would be nice but certainly not a necessity. I didn't think anyone interfaced with the GE Concord line and thus, I would have recommended the GE NX-8E but, it seems that HS evidently does. You may want to consider the HS route. It is extremely popular, functional and, from most accounts, reliable. I am also a CQC user but, it won't interface with the Concord. Neither will MainLobby, Girder, J9 or other popular PC based systems.

As for returning the Insteon, I think it's worth a shot to see if the initial dealer would take 'em back. He should be able to work it out with SH to everyone's satisfaction. It may cost you some kind of restocking fee but, other than that, it's reasonable.

 

[Digger]

If you are not happy with the performance and reliability of the Insteon and you can return it I would. If you cant return it and it was professionally installed I would pursue the issues with the installer and if they do not resolve the problems withing a reasonable amount of time contact the BBB etc. or your lawyer (depending on how the contract for the work is written you may be able to recoup your money if it never works correctly in its entirety etc).

Good Luck!