new, DIY looking for system recommendations

jjt3hii

New Member
Hi,

I know very little about home automation products, industry leaders, and brands. I'm extremely technical when it comes to computer hardware, enterprise networking, linux, and windows. I have no problem running and terminating most all types of cable and electrical circuits, so im want to DIY install and maybe make a fun project of it. I'm hoping maybe someone can direct me at which equipment would best fit my needs.

I prefer wired over wireless. I want to: Control 4 to 10 lights; Control two AC units; Interface with a basic alarm system (don't have one yet); maybe have 2-3 touchscreen panels; interface with 3 to 5 POE cameras;

I'd really like something with an iphone app as well as web access. I have no problem providing access via my own internet connection and would want to avoid any sort of monthly service charge (except for alarm system which i havent choosen provider yet). I have no clue on cost of good stuff that's out there. I see alot of people mentioning HAI?
 
Hi,

I know very little about home automation products, industry leaders, and brands. I'm extremely technical when it comes to computer hardware, enterprise networking, linux, and windows. I have no problem running and terminating most all types of cable and electrical circuits, so im want to DIY install and maybe make a fun project of it. I'm hoping maybe someone can direct me at which equipment would best fit my needs.

I prefer wired over wireless. I want to: Control 4 to 10 lights; Control two AC units; Interface with a basic alarm system (don't have one yet); maybe have 2-3 touchscreen panels; interface with 3 to 5 POE cameras;

I'd really like something with an iphone app as well as web access. I have no problem providing access via my own internet connection and would want to avoid any sort of monthly service charge (except for alarm system which i havent choosen provider yet). I have no clue on cost of good stuff that's out there. I see alot of people mentioning HAI?


I think you find people around here mostly use HAI or Elk. Depending on what you are doing or how much you plan to expand either one might be the better buy. The HAI is more expensive up front, but also comes with a lot more features out of the box (ethernet, etc) that are add on modules for the elk.

My plan is to use HAI, primarily for the fit and finish of the product, specifically the humidity sensors that I plan to put in the bathrooms. Not sure what you mean by AC units - if you mean HVAC systems HAI and AprilAir I think are the most popular thermostat - if you are talking about window Air Conditions, then I am not sure.

As for lighting, UPB has a lot of fans on this board. I had planned on using ALC/OnQ and wired for it, but not sure what direction I am going to go in.

For touchscreens, there is a fair amount of people that buy elo screens off ebay. A lot of people on this board use CQC. Some people use HomeSeer, which I have ruled out for my system as I don't think it is a product that is progressing. There is a new system in beta called J9AE (Johnny 9 - Automation Engine) that people are playing with. I am considering CQC and J9AE. CQC seems to be more fully along, it is a product offering with customers. However, I am evaluating J9 because you can write drivers for it in .NET rather than a proprietary driver language. Both have iPhone and web support in one way or another.
 
... Some people use HomeSeer, which I have ruled out for my system as I don't think it is a product that is progressing.
I can tell you from experience that HomeSeer is progressing more than any other home automation software on the market. It has the largest market share as well. Visit the HomeSeer message board and see just how active this board is. Also visit other boards as this message board tends to be an anti HomeSeer message board from time to time and it also has a lot of CQC Fan-Boys as their message board is a little slow from time to time.
I'm a new HomeSeer user and I can tell you that it is made for the DIY'er and is fun. It takes a while to get get a grasp on how much it can do but so far I've found nothing that it can't interface with. It has plugins for nearly any hardware you can imagine and the new HSTouch touchscreen software is progressing rapidly. The weakest link is the hardware interfaces to home theater equipment but I was able to do this with the IR plugins so not a big deal to me. So visit the HomeSeer home page and download a 30 day trial and give it a go.
 
Automation - I'm glad you are excited about Homeseer. I hope it is perfect for your situation. But your "comparison" of CQC and Homeseer is just plain wrong. First, for the sake of transparency, I am a CQC user. I also think that each person should research each option and pick the one that fits their needs best. To say CQC isn't as good because the forum traffic is less than Homeseer is just crazy. I think it also tries to coverup the real differences between Homeseer and CQC. (Perhaps you are not even aware of the differences between the two).

Homeseer's site is more active than CQC. However, I venture to say that there are a lot of "frustrated" posts from users where they have bought plugins that are either buggy or no longer work and don't seem to be supported anymore. This "issue" shows the biggest difference between the CQC and Homeseer model.

Homeseer allows individuals to write and sell "plugins" which are the programming language part needed to control any device. Each of these "plugins" are unique and cannot be changed or modified by anybody except the original author. If that author stops supporting it or simply disappears, the user is stuck with a plugin that cannot be changed. Manytimes it forces the user to go and buy another plugin for the same device that is either newer or simply being supported currently by the author. Homeseer users are also forced to buy plugins for each device they want to use. So as your system might expand, you have to continue to buy new plugins.

CQC on the otherhand has a unique programming language that Dean has provided to all users. This programming language is controlled and designed to prevent users from creating "drivers" (CQC's equivalent to Homeseer's "plugin") that can crash the main CQC program. Sometimes this limits a driver author in what they can do, but in general it provides for a much more stable system. That's not to say that every CQC driver works well, because there are some out there with bugs in them, but in general, those issues will not corrupt the rest of the system.

99% of CQC's drivers are also open. Meaning that any person can open it in a driver builder software that is included in the CQC package and modify or change the driver. There is only one driver that I am aware of that is not open to the public and that is due to a NDA with the device manufacture. Even the drivers that Dean authored are open for others to modify. What that allows is someone to come in after a device driver as already been written and either make it better, or fix a problem that might appear in the future. This generally means that there is only 1 driver for each supported device. This is unlike Homeseer where many times there are several different plugins being sold for the exact same device. This is because the plugins are not open and so a person cannot build on someone elses work to improve a driver. Instead they are forced to start from scratch and write/sell a completely new plugin.

As I stated earlier am a CQC user and to be honest, I wasn't completely aware of all these differences between Homeseer and CQC when I choose CQC. I feel lucky that I choose CQC because IMHO, it clearly has the better business model regarding drivers and updates. Yes CQC can be more expensive to buy, but it is an "all inclusive" price. You get access to every driver and every device that is supported either officially or in beta when you purchase CQC. You don't have to continue to buy new drivers every time you add a new piece of hardware. Also, should you decide to pay the $95 yearly maintenance fee (which is optional) you get access to all regular updates and any new drivers that are created. So with CQC the expenses are a known item. You can plan accordingly because you know exactly how much it will cost you upfront and on an ongoing basis. With Homeseer, your cost will depend on how much you add to your system. With drivers averaging between $30 and $100 each, it can quickly add up and become much more expensive than the CQC cost.


You are correct in that Homeseer is designed for the DIYer. CQC on the other hand is designed for the professional integrator but is also DIY friendly. In that capacity, it has to be bomb proof or the integrators won't use it. I doubt there are many (if any) professional integrators using Homeseer. It simply isn't reliable enough for that environment and unless a intergrator wrote every one of the plugins they use, they would be relying on someone else for support.

EDIT - corrected my statement that Homeseer's forum is only slightly busier than CQC. Clearly it is much busier than CQC's site. But that isn't an indicator of quality or capability of either system.
 
<br />
... Some people use HomeSeer, which I have ruled out for my system as I don't think it is a product that is progressing.
<br />I can tell you from experience that HomeSeer is progressing more than any other home automation software on the market. It has the largest market share as well. Visit the HomeSeer message board and see just how active this board is. Also visit other boards as this message board tends to be an anti HomeSeer message board from time to time and it also has a lot of CQC Fan-Boys as their message board is a little slow from time to time. <br />I'm a new HomeSeer user and I can tell you that it is made for the DIY'er and is fun. It takes a while to get get a grasp on how much it can do but so far I've found nothing that it can't interface with. It has plugins for nearly any hardware you can imagine and the new HSTouch touchscreen software is progressing rapidly. The weakest link is the hardware interfaces to home theater equipment but I was able to do this with the IR plugins so not a big deal to me. So visit the HomeSeer home page and download a 30 day trial and give it a go.<br />

Wow, I haven't seen such a negative statement in a long time. No one is anti-homeseer, heck I just did a complete review on the HomeTroller several months ago, and I personally haven't seen anything negative in a long time (besides this post).

Let's not turn this thread into a negative thread. Each package has its advantages and flaws, and unless you used all of them for a significant time, it's not fair to attack the other products (IMO).
 
My lighting control system is better than your lighting control system. :lol:

OP, read the Elk M1 and HAI OPII manuals, and search for comparison threads here at cocoontech and at AVS. Try to choose a PC-based controller (HomeSeer, CQC, J9, etc) before you buy anything - you want everything to work together well. That is, install the subsystems first, to be controlled by the whole-house controller.

When the alarm panel is installed and running, and you want more, THEN buy the PC-based controller.

Read as much as you can before you buy anything. If you drag your feet enough, and take a while, you can make more informed decisions about what will work best for you. This approach has been working well for me.
 
...Also visit other boards as this message board tends to be an anti HomeSeer message board from time to time and it also has a lot of CQC Fan-Boys as their message board is a little slow from time to time.

There are a LOT of forum posts here that represent a variety of experiences with both software products! I think it all depends on which ones stand out more for the individual as they are the ones that are most remembered. :lol:

CocoonTech is not anti-HomeSeer though. Every new product of theirs is announced on our home page. I have met and chatted with their developers during various CES shows and written reviews about those experiences here. The HomeSeer developers are forum members and have also contributed products for CocoonTech contests/give-away promotions as well!
 
When the alarm panel is installed and running, and you want more, THEN buy the PC-based controller.

Read as much as you can before you buy anything. If you drag your feet enough, and take a while, you can make more informed decisions about what will work best for you. This approach has been working well for me.

+1 on this - I had my Elk for 2 years before choosing a PC based system. Unless there is reason not to - take your time learning by following a few HA sites. You will find your time best spent by asking the questions where you need only more granular detail - meaning you already have your feet wet a bit by simply having spent the time reading.

There is a large shared Google spreadsheet that will be a bit of help up front - sorry I can't think of the url... UpstateMike controls it I think?

EDIT: Here is the thread with spreadsheet info.

HA Spreadsheet thread
 
flat surface that rotates and pushes against air, combined with a young person, whose gender may be defined as a male!

"may be defined"???

:o How dare thee! If I wasn't such a cocoontech fanboi, I'd be totally out of here. But this site is so freakin' awesome, especially compared to that [insert other HA related site here] place...it suxxors!

CQC rules btw!! :lol:...if for no other reason than I own it and I don't own that other stuff.
 
I don't really see anyone talking about it here, but we have a MyAmbience system and really like it.

We control most of our lighting, heating, audio system (which is Russound), security, pool and cameras. The interface is quite easy to use. We have access through iPod Touch, iPhone, and the regular panels in our house. There is remote access from anywhere and no monthly charges.

The system was also very affordable.
 
kachah, welcome to CT! Do you know Doug personally, or do you work for the company? Looks like you are in the same physical area as the company. I think most people haven't heard of this system because it hasn't been advertised anywhere, nor can one download the software to play with it. I also don't see any pricing info, which usually means it's too expensive for the typical DIY'er.

How much did the software cost?
 
kachah, welcome to CT! Do you know Doug personally, or do you work for the company? Looks like you are in the same physical area as the company. I think most people haven't heard of this system because it hasn't been advertised anywhere, nor can one download the software to play with it. I also don't see any pricing info, which usually means it's too expensive for the typical DIY'er.

How much did the software cost?

Home Controls sells it. Looks like you can't buy the software, but have to buy the hardware components with the software installed.

MyAmbience

It looks pretty pricey by the time you get finished.
 
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