New M1G and unexplained false alarms

dscline

Active Member
About a month ago I put in a new M1G. I was replacing a cheap old DSC system that was free with monitoring from my original monitoring company. I pulled out the old panel, but re-used the existing sensors, plus added a wireless board and some wireless sensors. The original hardwired zones (not surprisingly) had their EOL resistors at the panel. I simply removed the existing resistors, and set all the sensors up as NC. I've been having some theft problems in both my detached garage, and in the storage room in the back of the garage in the rental house I have next door, so that's why I added the wireless card and wireless sensors... I wanted a quick way to get them monitored, as I was going on vacation a week after installing the panel.

Anyway, the first day of my vacation, I got an alarm call from the monitoring company. Fortunately, it ended up being a false alarm, but I could never figure out what tripped it. It was the front door that tripped, which has never had false alarms in the previous 10 years with my old panel. Today I had another false alarm... both the front door AND a slider at the back of the house. Went home, and again, everything is secure. There are a couple of odd coincidences between these two false alarms. The biggest of which is both false alarms had one of the wireless zones being tripped at the exact same time as the zones that are causing the alarm. Because the garages aren't fully secure, I have them set up as "silent alarms", and I have them set up with the monitoring company as "log only", so those zones on their own don't trigger alarms (but I have a way of knowing when there's motion out there). The other odd coincidence is that neither of these events caused the M1 to report the alarm directly to me. I have it set up to call my cell, email me at work, and send a txt msg to my cell. None of that happened with the false alarms, I only knew because it DOES report to the monitoring company. I have had a real false alarm (roommate tripped it accidentally), and on that occasion, the calls/messages worked immediately.

Reviewing my log, I have had a couple of instances of the garage zones getting tripped, and working like they should: only that zone is reported, and the monitoring company only logs it (because that's what I've instructed them to do). I really don't think my house door sensors are getting tripped - the coincidental trippings of the wireless zones at the exact same minute just make it too suspicious. But I have no way of knowing if the wireless zones really did trip, and for some reason that's causing the panel to also THINK the house doors are getting tripped, or maybe NOTHING is tripping, and the panel is just completely wrong. Perhaps I've got something configured funny that's causing this, but I just don't know what it could be. Any ideas? FWIW, both the front door and back door are configured as time delay perimeter zones, if that makes any difference. Attached is a scan of the two portions of my log that show the trippings (I couldn't find any way to export the log, only print it, which I then had to scan).
 

Attachments

  • AlarmLog.PNG
    AlarmLog.PNG
    48 KB · Views: 54
In the log, the first zone tripped is the culprit. Are the other zones showing up as tripped in the log defined as entry/exit zones?

What are the zone numbers that are showing up in the log?

Make sure the loop response time is set to slow loop response on the zone definition and the loop response time set in the Globals is greater than 200 milliseconds.


Any other details could help in finding the problem: Any motion detectors, constant current draw on the system, any low battery indication...etc.

edit: after looking at the log, are zones 17 and 19 hardwired or wireless zones and how are they defined?
 
Thanks for the help Spanky!
Spanky said:
In the log, the first zone tripped is the culprit.
Ok, then I'm not surprised to see that in both cases, it's a wireless zone that was first (they all have the same time stamp, but I'm assuming the bottom entry is first since older transacations are on the bottom of the list).

Are the other zones showing up as tripped in the log defined as entry/exit zones?
Yes, in both cases, entry/exit zones got tripped with a wireless zone.

What are the zone numbers that are showing up in the log?
In the first case on May 25th, wireless zone 19 (the garage next door) got tripped, and the front door (wired entry/exit zone 1) tripped with it. In the second case, wireless zone 17 (my garage) tripped, and both zones 1 and 2 (my front door and sliding door) tripped with it.

Make sure the loop response time is set to slow loop response on the zone definition and the loop response time set in the Globals is greater than 200 milliseconds.
Thanks, will check when I'm home. I THINK the only one set to fast is the fire alarm. I didn't change those globals, but I'll double check.

Any other details could help in finding the problem: Any motion detectors, constant current draw on the system, any low battery indication...etc.
I have three hardwired motion sensors in my house (more to be added soon), no other constant current draws that I can think of besides the keypad and wireless card. There's the ethernet interface, which of course is self-powered. For intermittent draw, there's both an outdoor siren, and the indoor speaker, and a very small relay added to the keypad aux output, which was added after the first false alarm. No battery errors.

edit: after looking at the log, are zones 17 and 19 hardwired or wireless zones and how are they defined?
Those are wireless zones. Both set up as indoor motion with chime, and set for silent alarm. Since the first false alarm, zone 17 got set up as a delayed entry, using the 2nd entry time for longer time, but 19 is still a standard interior immediate trip. Once I'm home, I can look at it and describe the configuration better in your language, though I may be home late tonight. :D
 
Ok, some details. The wireless zones in question:

Zn 19 is configured as an 04 (burglar interior) type 0 (eol supervised/RF). It is set to be bypassable and to be a silent alarm. I THOUGHT that I had it set to chime, but apparently not (I just fixed that).

Zn 17 WAS set up just like Zn 19 (except that it really was set up to chime). In between the first false alarm and second one, I changed it to be an 02 (Burglar Entry/exit 2). But since this zone just had a false alarm with this setting, and Zn 19 had a false alarm with the previous setting, I assume this isn't the issue.

I'm assuming "eol supervised/RF" is the correct option for wireless motion sensors? These sensors are supposed to "check in" occasionally, so I assume that's the correct option. I had set the "non-fire zone supervision time window" to 6, which I believe is shorter than the default, because those sensors are somewhat far away (detached garages about 50' from the house), and I wanted to know if they didn't have reliable communication. Could the alarms be caused by missed supervision transmits? I don't have any troubles indicating that's happened, but I do also remember seeing a post on the M1 forums suggesting this didn't work, because he disabled a sensor, and it never got reported. Even so, the question would remain: why would other unrelated zones get "sucked" into tripping?


The other questions: the slow loop response time is set to 400, and I don't have ANY zones set up for fast loop response time (not even fire, which I thought was).

Does any of that provide any clues? Thanks again for your help!
 
I had an alarm this week (not saying false alarm based on below). I had just armed away a few minutes earlier and was almost at work and the alarm panel emailed my cell phone. When I got home I checked the log and noted that the front and back doors had tripped at the same time (I dont know why two zones like that show up in the log).

I chalked it up to my son not closing and locking the back door correctly and a breeze or a pet opening the door. Since I did not come back to the house first I cant say what the state of the back door really was (its hard to explain to a mother in law how to check out the house and since she has great life insurance we send her in first .......................JUST KIDDING!!!!). Normally I would look at the panel through the internet connection but I dont have a PC at work for another week. Also time to get some CCTV camera's up and running over the net when money permits.

I am curious as to why two zones showed up in the log (zone 1 Front Door and Zone 2 back door both EOL and both Entry/Exit etc). I know the front door was closed and locked for sure yet they both had the same exact trip time according to the log.
 
So I'm not the only one. :D

I happened to me too, but since both hardwire sensors (one door contact, one PIR) were on the same CAT5 cable I assumed that I had done something wrong in the cabling.

I got two apparent false alarms. Actually, its very improbably that they were real alarms since one of them includes the entrance door and nobody besides me and my wife have the key to that door. Also, the PIR covers the area just beyond the deactivation keypad (interior instant), but the log registered the alarm in the entrance door first (Entry Delay 1). In any case I would expect the PIR to trigger first, unless the apparent intruder didnt walk inside the house (stayed at the keypad trying to deactivate it).

This happened twice (Jan and Feb), but have not repeated.
 
So, everyone getting these false alarms have "wireless" sensors?

Also, curious, what are your voltage readings for your zones in their "normal" state? To find this just go to the keypad icon on the top menu in the RP software and look to the most right column.

Remember that (I think) 3.9 volts is the lower threshold (anything below this will trip an alarm) and 8.8 volts is the upper threshold (anything above this will trip an alarm) for EOL type zones.

I noticed when I was playing around with the Elk's "analog" mode I put a variable DC voltage source on one zone, then noticed this voltage reading on the zone next to the zone under test (even though nothing was connected to this adjacent zone).

I also am curious if all these false alarms were on zones that were part of the M1XIN expansion card. Reason is these zones will "update" if any one of the zones goes above or below the threshold voltage levels listed above.

Just some thoughts!

BSR
 
I have the same problem but I cannot DUPLICATE it. It has happened to me three times now in the last 4 months.

My hardwired window sensor would trip (accidently by me) then two other (front door and garage door) entry/exit delay would show up as tripped zone BUT I know for sure both of the doors are secured because I was at home when this happened.

THE MAIN PROBLEM THAT I HAVE IS IT CANNOT BE DUPLICATE IT THEREFORE, WHEN I CALLED TECH SUPPORT THEY COULD NOT DO ANYTHING.
 
Ok, so it sounds like there IS an issue with one tripped zone tripping another zone that never was really physically tripped. I suppose this is something that is probably ignored or sometimes not even noticed by most people, since there really is a zone getting tripped, and that fact that other ones get tripped too doesn't really change the situation. It's just more obvious (and problematic) for me, because I have two zones that I specifically DON'T want to cause an alarm (audible or for dispatching police). But because they are, for some reason, false tripping other (more secure) zones, police are getting dispatched. :D
 
My most recent alarm was hard wired zones on the main board not the expansion board.

Just a guess but I think this could be a firmware issue with the other zones showing tripped???????????????? The one zone really did alarm and the others never really did.
 
Digger said:
Just a guess but I think this could be a firmware issue with the other zones showing tripped???????????????? The one zone really did alarm and the others never really did.
If I had to guess (and at this point that's all it is), I would agree. I think my wireless zone coincidence is probably due to my situation... I have the wireless sensors in the garages set up as silent and don't call the police specifically because at this point they are going to be prone to triggers in cases where I don't want the police dispatched. The garages are not secure (one is a carport, the other is an unfinished garage - framed only). So people can wander in there, grab something, and be gone before the police show up, and without sign of forced entry, I'll get hit $50 for a false report. But I still want them tripping so *I* know that something is going on - if I'm nearby, I can go home and catch them in the act.

So anyway, in my case, they probably are real motion trips, and because those zones are by far the most prone to tripping, the chances are much higher that a wireless zone is going to coincidentally be involved in one of these situations, since those are also the only zones I have that are wireless.

As I aluded before, having one or more zones APPEAR to trip for no other reason than because a different zone was ACTUALLY tripped probably isn't a critical issue for people who's zones are all treated the same. But for someone like me who needs different actions depending on what zone it is, this can be a serious issue. Until it's resovled, I guess I should look into making these non-alarm zones, and set up rules to manually call ME when they are tripped. Of course, that's assuming that the eroneous false triggers won't happen on a non-alarm zone. Without knowing the cause, that's just a hope at this point.
 
I hope Spanky can tell us more on this issue.

The only way I can tell which zone really tripped is to look at the log (the first one) even though couple other zones may tripped (false alarm). But when you're away from the house you'd not know.

The first time this happened it scares the s*** out of me because it shows my front entry, garage and mud room door trip so I didn't know whether the burglar really gotten into the house via which door.

In my opinion this issue needs to be fixed quickly otherwise bunch of false alarm will occur and expensive tickets from the police department will be issued for having false alarm.
 
Ugh, I hope this gets resolved soon, I JUST got back to work after rushing home once again for the same issue... two false alarms in two days, and four in the past month (one of which was a separate issue, but the police don't care about that). While I was home, I reconfigured the two garage zones to be "non-alarm", but of course I have no way of knowing if that will have any effect... does a simple trip of one zone cause another zone to trip, or does an ALARM trip of one zone cause another zone to trip? :)

P.S... once again, I did not get any email messages or direct phone calls from the alarm panel. But they HAVE worked with "legitimate" trips. If a rule is set up to phone and email due to a burglary alarm, does that NOT happen if the zone that tripped it is set to silent?
 
Well I am pretty sure the original alarm is valid in my case so I am not saying I have false alarms. I might have incorrect information in the log.

I had several M1's go through bench testing and tons of "abuse" for months where I used to work. Not once did I note a false alarm. One panel went through over 10K cycles of arm, alarm, disarm and start over. I admit I did not go over the log completely so I cant say if the information in the log was 100% correct.

I would say that in my opinion the jury is still out on this one and I am not sure that we are actually having "False" alarms. Possibly that is true in some situations.

Maybe we need to get a big search light with an image of an "ELK" projected into the sky so Spanky and the guys will come to the rescue..............it worked for Gotham City.
 
Back
Top