New Project - Need pointers so I get focused

[tonti]

I have been lingering around but have realized that I need some starting points so I am more efficiently use my time on getting to the best solution. I have the feeling I can get lost in this matter quickly and reading all your posts gives me a great comfort that I can actually make this happen. 
 
Here is an overview of my project.
 

 
I have an existing  barn that has a workshop with restroom and little kitchen. This is built already and I pre-wired all windows and doors, I also ran wires for glass break and heat & smoke sensors. But have not decided on the system yet. I planted an empty conduit when I ran the power from the power pole, this is 150 ft away. An additional 50 ft will get me to the water well house (no empty conduit there). 
 
We are in the final stages of permitting our house. We estimate to break ground in two to three weeks. The house will get connected to the barn via conduit as well to tie security and cameras together for both.
 
This brings me to what I want to achieve:

1. Security cameras that overlook the property. Starting at the water well house or the power pole to see who is coming. Cameras on all corners of the house & barn, probably 6 as a minimum or 8 for better coverage. Not sure about cameras on the inside, I don't like to be recorded.... any thoughts?
2. My property goes 900 ft to the back, no power there except solar (12V > 24VAC) for a sprinkler system. I'd love to see a thought on how I could tie in a camera back there. But this is not my current priority.
3. I'd like to record the cameras on action, either movement or some other trigger. We have a lot of deer crossing the property, I do not want to get too many false alarms. I will fence in around approx. 40 ft around the house for the dogs and hope this keep the deer away. This perimeter is my main concern and is what I want to get secured.
4. Security System, general sensor packages; doors, windows, movement, glass break, heat, smoke & carbon monoxide. I like to have all tied together so I know if the door in the barn is still open or a window is open in the house. 
5. I like to get some kind of alarm when vehicles drive down the drive way. This could be triggered by a camera but I think a more vehicle-triggered-device (maybe like traffic light inductive sensors) may be better. I just don't know what I could use here. 
6. Cameras & Security is my main concern, home automation may be a nice icing on the cake. I like to tie automation into the security by switching lights at various times when we are away. I am not crazy about open/close blinds or perform other trivial tasks. Lights and maybe temperature settings is just fine. But who knows what I want in the future...
7. I want to self monitor, I have neighbors that are always there. So a loud siren is just fine. I will have shortly high speed internet and good cell phone coverage. I think about backing up the internet with a cell phone line. 

Anything you can recommend on the system? I think Elk M1 Gold seems a good fit but please point me to the right system. 
 
Here is a view of the house. Simple structure. I want to terminate everything in a closet (labeled #4) in the hall way. Anything I need to consider for this closet? What power will all this take so I can ask for right cable gauge? 
 

I marked the windows (W) and Doors (D). Would someone please recommend what sensors I need to place and where? I also would like to see the cable requirements for each sensor. I noticed there is a good document out there for cabling 101. Maybe someone can suggest how to tie certain sensors together, a logic of how to do this. 
 
Any other comments or pointers?
 
Again - I could spend hours just reading these post here, this is great info but I realize that I need to start focusing my efforts. I understand you guys do this to help out fellow enthusiasts and I really appreciate your time and support. 

 

[newalarm]

you are going to want to think about smoke detectors. CO if you have gaz or propane or oil. Water leak detectors are good too.
 
On motions, you can actually specify a motion for different conditions. Bosch has a nice chart for this. One size DOES NOT fit all here.
 
Also, pay attention to your windows. Our windows were difficult to install hidden magnetic sensor so we went with surface mount. You may want to select different windows if this is issue.
 
Last, doing your own alarm install is A WHOLE LOT of work, time, and sometimes headaches and money when you make mistakes, or order wrong parts. You may want to consider getting a professional to design and install basic system that you can build on later.

 

[tmbrown97]

All of your goals are attainable - looks reasonable enough.  The M1 would suit you well, and you could partition the barn to be one area and the house as another.  You can run Cat5 through the conduit to the barn and use a P212S separate battery backup power supply out there and run input/output zone expanders out there too as a sub-panel so you're not home-running everything back to the house.... just make sure to tie the grounds together.  The Elk comes in a lot of packages but are all essentially the same system with different stuff included and different keypads - but there's only two Elk's - the EZ8 and the M1.  I'd definitely do the M1 just for limitless flexibility.  The can they include is too small for most people - but I actually repurposed that into the garage for a sub-panel; you may wish to do the same, or just buy the cans you want.  I personally like the KP2 because it looks good flush mounted and has provisions for an SP12 speaker behind it - those are small high-ohm speakers so you can use at least 8 without having to worry about low impedance - so they can be spread around the house behind every keypad and in any other areas needed to ensure clear sound throughout the house.
 
For video, you need to think about analog vs. IP - I'd probably go IP because of the distance you're trying to do;  I don't really have the right answer on what system to go with as cameras are all over the board on pricing and features, from nicely packaged pro systems to build-your-own with your own PC to do the recording running BlueIris or VitaminD or similar software.  You'll need to figure out your budget and preferred camera styles.
 
The driveway sensor is pretty standard - they have a tube you bury along the edge of the driveway - check out Dakota Alert or similar - these can be tied back to your security system with either wired or wireless depending on the needs.
 
Even the back area with the solar - it's perfectly easy to do a camera there running off solar if you wanted, and it could be wifi back to the house.  Ubiquiti NanoStation devices work great for bridging remote IP devices.  Cameras inside are another one - if you used POE cameras, you could switch them on/off depending on if you're home or the house is armed - that's what I'd do if I had cameras inside.  I like to see what's going on in the house when I'm not home but would never want cameras on full time.
 
Just take things one piece at a time and let us know where you have questions.  All of this would be pretty easy to solve with the Elk and some IP cameras.

 

[tonti]

Thanks for the responses. I appreciate this.
 
My biggest question at this point is how the camera system and the security system is tied together. How would an alert of motion on the camera side trigger an alert on the security side and possible switching of light on the automation side. Or the other way around, if a glass breaks how is the camera system able to switch on? This actually drives a lot of decisions. If the cameras can be used for motion detection I will not need outside detectors for this inner perimeter between the fence and the house.  I tend to agree with the IP cameras and I like the flexibility of POE.  I was planning to have an outside WiFi antenna pointing to the back of the property anyhow for Smartphone access and such. Using IP cameras would be the optimum solution. 
 
I checked out VitaminD and it looks really good (just does not support Linux). I would prefer to run Linux if I go with computer monitoring & recording. Any recommendations here, what OS (Win, Mac or Linux) would be the best for my setup considering IP cameras and ELK M1? 
 
I am struggling with the self install for one reason, I am under City of Houston city code. As such I suspect that I am not allowed to do all the runs myself. These City Inspectors are really a tough crowed.

 

[newalarm]

I think you will find that you need to separate the alarm system and the camera system. the motion detectors are designed for a specific purpose and you want to minimize false alarms.
 
But I think most camera systems have alarm inputs and outputs. so you can have them turn on if alarm is triggered.
 
do you research for local jurisdictions. In my area, you are supposed to pull low voltage permit, but inspector never said anything.

 

[pete_c]

I did much of a DIY during new construction of a new home around 2000.  That said part of the contractor's package was to pre-wire the alarm installation.  The pre-wiring was subcontracted to a local alarm company.  They ran the wires but did not terminate any of them.  I did request some changes to the wiring which they agreed to and did do.  The alarm company left their company name on a sticker near the point of the home runs and labeled all of the wiring.  6 years later I called about installation of an alarm panel.  I did want all of the "bells and whistles".   The alarm installation quote was in the vicinity of some $6000 or so.  That said I just purchased my own and terminated it all.  It was time consuming but well worth the effort.  I was amazed at the prewiring done.  It was done better than I probably would have done.
 
In another house today I did prewire for CCTV.  Initially I used analog cameras with built in PIR's (Optex).  That said I did run RG-6, power and cat5e to these cameras.  They have always been connected to the alarm panel and outdoor PIR functions work reasonably well.  The "world" of outside motion detection is very different from the interior of the home.  You have to take into consideration everything outside that can cause a motion event.
 
Over the years I did migrate from using the RG-6 / power cables to cat5e baluns.  Most recently upgrading the cameras from analog to IP POE.  I have added the use of video motion detection events.  Personally it kind of works but not nearly as well as the outdoor motion sensors.  If I were starting from scratch today I would most likely just run two CatXX cables for each camera; one for a POE network connection and one for an adjacent or built in motion detection device.  Still this is much easier than running RG-6 cable.  Have a look too at the cameras connectivity methodologies.  The Aircams that I use have a connector inside of the camera housing with a cover clasp rubberized to shield the network POE cabling.  It has withstood a windy storm with 75MPH winds.  The Grandstream camera have pigtails for cabling which are unprotected such that you have to figure out a way to protect those wires outside.  I've been testing some little IP combo camera boards and disconnect the pigtails from the inside of the camera and feed the ends through small holes.  Taking apart a new camera in an IP67 housing could void the warranty on the camera. 
 
I am today using outdoor motion triggers from the alarm panel to start CCTV event recordings.  This involves an integration of a "switch" on or off for recording whether its virtual or analog.  My preference is an analog on or off signal to the NVR.
 
Most commercial CCTV NVRs do today come with any OS type of clients; whether its a desktop PC client or a mobile phone client.  Most also come with video detection event recording or processing.  A few come with analog switching.  This is too a throw back from the older analog type video tape CCTV recorders.  Propietary NVRs sometimes become an issue if trying to integrate with a third party application.  Some companies do provide SDK for development purposes and flexibility while others do not. 
 
I tend to stay away from using wireless IP cameras.  They do work but if you have to power the camera; then its just as easy to add a POE cable to the camera for network and power.  There is the issue of throughput and radio RF propagation. Today's cameras also utilize less power than yesterdays CCTV cameras.  The limiting of analog pixel sizes is gone now with the direct camera lens to the processing of the video right at the source then taking it to the network.  
 
Over the years I have kept the CCTV NVR stuff autonomous from the cameras always experimenting with different cameras that give me different features.  Purchasing a combo package of cameras and NVR you are sometimes stifled into utilize cameras which only work with the NVR OS.  Today probably the most flexibility is in software NVRs versus embedded OS NVRs.  But you need to look at the flexibility relating to what you are most comfortable with. 

 

[drvnbysound]

I wouldn't rely on motion detectors of a camera at night; not reliable enough for my taste anyway.

 

[tonti]

Pete, can you shed more light on this?
 

I am today using outdoor motion triggers from the alarm panel to start CCTV event recordings.  This involves an integration of a "switch" on or off for recording whether its virtual or analog.  My preference is an analog on or off signal to the NVR.

 

[apostolakisl]

Be aware that when connecting buildings like you are there is a substantial risk of lightening EM damage/destruction.  Do some research on this.  Be very careful about how things are grounded.  If you have 2 buildings connected by wires, you need to have both buildings share the same single point of Earth grounding.  You have to avoid accidental extra Earth grounds like metal pipes, rebar, or metal structural components of the buildings.  Any conductors that are grounded need to be kept away from you grounds.  2 points of grounding will allow current to flow from one to the other anytime a potential is setup in the ground such as happens with a lightening strike.  Shield all of your wires as they travel between buildings and ground the shielding to prevent EM pulses in the air from setting up potential in your long wire runs which basically are big antennas.  Shielding from a direct strike is somewhat futile as the costs will be astronomical, but at least make sure that a strike a few hundred feet away doesn't fry you.

 

[pete_c]

Pete, can you shed more light on this?

 
This would be a combo of the Optex combos (cams with PIRs), optical beams, et al connected to my panel zones.  The zones triggers are received right now with ZM via a CM11A X-10 interface.  The on and off triggers motion event recording.  That and I can manually trigger alarm events via touch screens.
 
BTW with doing a DIY with ZM you can trigger events all kinds of ways.  IE: serial, network or files in folders plus x10.  I chose x10 because of the stuff already built into ZM and it was an easy setup.
 
Here is an example using an Arduino.
 

On ZM is necessary to enable the external trigger; it is possible to start recording on external event using serial comunication, network comunication or file in a folder "comunication" (ZM check for a file in a specific folder); I have chosen the networdk comunication.

1 Enable external trigger:
Edit the file zmtrigger.pl:
Check for the some comunication system row definition and comment the not used (put # at the start of the lines):
[cut]
my @connections;
push( @connections, ZoneMinder::Trigger::Connection->new( name=>"Chan1", channel=>ZoneMinder::Trigger::Channel::Inet->new( port=>6802 ), mode=>"rw" ) );
#push( @connections, ZoneMinder::Trigger::Connection->new( name=>"Chan2", channel=>ZoneMinder::Trigger::Channel::Unix->new( path=>ZM_PATH_SOCKS.'/zmtrigger.sock' ), mode=>"rw" ) );
#push( @connections, ZoneMinder::Trigger::Connection->new( name=>"Chan3", channel=>ZoneMinder::Trigger::Channel::File->new( path=>'/tmp/zmtrigger.out' ), mode=>"w" ) );
#push( @connections, ZoneMinder::Trigger::Connection->new( name=>"Chan4", channel=>ZoneMinder::Trigger::Channel::Serial->new( path=>'/dev/ttyS0' ), mode=>"rw" ) );
[cut]

 

This procedure enable ZM to listen on udp port 6082 for external command.... (in case you can change this port...)
From the web interface of ZM:
2 Take a camera, put "Nodect" for function type (instead of motion detection, recording,...)
3 In the ZM options (System Page/TAB) put the check on "OPT_TRIGGERS" (enable zm to check for external triggers)
 

Ok, zm configuration is finish!; now on arduino...
Is necessary to create a program that connect ZM on port 6802 (UPD using ethernet) and send the command...
Command format:
6|on+60|255|Arduino alarm

 

Synstax:
6 is the ID (in the database of ZM), you can find it on the web interface of ZM moving the mouse on the camera (in the link you can see the ID; eg: ...../index.php?view=watch&mid=6)
on+60 Start recording and stop it after 60 seconds
255 the amount of the point for the motion detection (fixed to 255; is the top)
Arduino allarm comment of the alarm
All parameters must be separate with pipe char (|)

another eg
6|on
Start to recording without end (is necessary to send the command 6|off for stop the recording)

Send this type of command for each camera needed (changing the ID of the camera)

At the moment I cant send a sample of the code of arduino... but using the sample in the ide is very simple to implement; in my case a pin of the arduino is conneceted to a switch, when I close it, ZM start to recording...
 

http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=88331.0

 

[tonti]

@ Lou Apo
I have never thought about this. My power comes in at the power pole which has a breaker box. This breaker box is grounded. The the power runs from there to the barn to another breaker box. The barn is a metal building on rebar slab and the breaker box there is grounded as well. The house will receive power from the barn and I assume the electrician will ground this too. Based on your comments I am questioning if this is right...?
 
Is your concern more on the security wiring or generally on the power lines as well?
 
Can I shield the conduit between the houses rather than every single cable? How would I do the shielding?
 
This is exactly why I posted the initial post, because I don't know what I do not know..... this helps a lot and even if I don't end up doing all this myself it will help me ask the right questions. Thanks y'all!

 

[tmbrown97]

I'll let Lou elaborate more on the grounding - that's an area I have only a little knowledge about - just enough to know I'd need to do more reading about it...  but for cables between the buildings, they have shielded versions of Cat5 as well as most other wire types.  If you're doing any networking between the buildings, then it's also quite easy to just do fiber optics - there are plenty of pretty affordable switches that can handle fiber connections and break out 8 regular LAN ports as well, or even POE for cameras (say, attached to the barn, and/or a POE phone in the barn and/or a wifi access point)... with fiber there's really nothing to worry about as far as lightning goes.
 
For an Elk M1 Databus, you'd want to use surge suppressors and shielded wire I'd guess.
 
The motion in the cameras might be fine for kicking on lights but I wouldn't do anything more with it - I have some cameras running that pick up a lot of "motion" - way more than I'd want to be alerted to... however if you wanted to control exterior lights based on it, that's a different thing.  I agree with the above posters that if you want a much better detection method, go with true outdoor PIR motion detectors - those will be much more reliable.  As others have stated, some cameras have trigger outputs, and some DVR's do - with some research you could find either... and some can perform network actions based on detection giving you some options entirely in software... but again I'd only do that for lights perhaps - I certainly wouldn't want an announcement every time it happened.

 

[pete_c]

Using multiple outdoor detectors can also be to your advantage as you can create motion events based on mutlple outdoor and combined outdoor detection based on this methodology.    Today I utilize both text to speech and beeps from the alarm panel.    I also have every outdoor camera seeing other outdoor cams.   Recently I had a friend build a new home on his families farm.  I suggested that he run underground HV and LV chases (separate) along his entrance way roads.  Today you could probably get small outdoor "utility" boxes set in place.  (historically though I have used fiber in the middle of nowhere gas facility). (even maybe use a couple of addition utility poles that can be purchased at a reasonable cost). 
 

 

[apostolakisl]

@ Lou Apo
I have never thought about this. My power comes in at the power pole which has a breaker box. This breaker box is grounded. The the power runs from there to the barn to another breaker box. The barn is a metal building on rebar slab and the breaker box there is grounded as well. The house will receive power from the barn and I assume the electrician will ground this too. Based on your comments I am questioning if this is right...?
 
Is your concern more on the security wiring or generally on the power lines as well?
 
Can I shield the conduit between the houses rather than every single cable? How would I do the shielding?
 
This is exactly why I posted the initial post, because I don't know what I do not know..... this helps a lot and even if I don't end up doing all this myself it will help me ask the right questions. Thanks y'all!

 
 
As mentioned, you buy the wire shielded.  You don't shield the conduit and I would suggest pvc conduit as to avoid the conduit being a ground itself that would need to be isolated.
 
As far as the metal building, I am not really sure how to handle that.  I suggest do some research or asking a pro.  My gut tells me that the structure itself would end up being grounded through the foundation one way or another which would pose issues for you.  On the up side, a metal building would behave as a faraday cage and shield the contents from em pulses.  
 
Like you, I live on a large piece of land with 2 structures.  The structures are both wood frame.   The only ground is at the meter which is near the street.  From there, power and ground travels through pvc conduit to the main building.  Power branches from there to the other building, again carrying the ground with it and running in PVC.
 
An analogy, think of electric potential like sitting in a rough sea.  You want to tie all your structures together into one point which floats on that sea.  So as a wave hits, the entire structure floats up as a single unit, then floats down.  You don't want one structure cresting on a wave, while the other sinks in a trough.
 
EM pulses traveling through the air are different.  Here you want to shield things.  The potnetial will always sit on the surface, and that is where the shielding is.  The shielding connects to that same single ground to unload itself preventing the potential from ever entering the contents of the wire where it can get access to your electronics.

 

[tonti]

The only ground is at the meter which is near the street.  From there, power and ground travels through pvc conduit to the main building.  Power branches from there to the other building, again carrying the ground with it and running in PVC.

 
Same here.... except for the metal structure this is the case for me as well, the electrician sized the cables and we run three copper cables from the pole to the barn/shop. We used copper because we can not mix copper with aluminium later for the house. All of this was taken into considerations so I assume this is the correct layout. 
 
pete_c, can all of this be done with POE? I am starting to like the flexibility of the Cat Cables. The run from the barn to the power pole is 146 ft and I am reading that Cat is limited on length.