Newbie's first post

D

DaveQB

Member
Hi all,

I have tried to do some research rather than posting a "Help me!!!" kind of post, but I have surcome.

We are having a house built for us. A package deal, so not designing it all ourself etc.

I have been interested in the idea of home automation but haven't got to it yet [I am geeky, gadget, Linux guy]

So now we are building I want to take advantage and wire up the house as much as possible to facilitate all possible practical options for some home automation.

Where do I start?
I have read the "Wiring your new house 101" but it covers all the little details that I won't be doing as there will be an electrician assigned to the wiring of the house.
So I need to communicate with this person all that I need, but I am not sure what I need exactly ;)

Any hints of where to start reading, right from the basics [ie what home automation can do, different methods to implement]

Thanks for reading!
 
Welcome, Dave. Did you continue on to reading the Wiring Your New House 102 and 103 guides?

How much time to you have? There's a lot to figure out. Maybe hire a consultant, a local Custom Installer? Unfortunately, even the pros can forget stuff or make the wrong decisions, but it will put you far ahead of square one.

Seems that the majority of people here at cocoontech use an alarm system that posesses some additional home automation capabilities - a control panel from either HAI or Elk. These can provide control over lights and HVAC, as well as some audio and video.

If you want more control, a software-based solution is then used - CQC, HomeSeer, MainLobby, J9 - lots of options.

But you probably know all that - you need to know what cables to run now.

I guess you need to make some decisions about lights, for one. Good place to start. Any interest in having some control of your lights? Which ones - kitchen, exterior/landscaping, garage, foyer? How much do you want to spend? If it's not the most important thing you want to control, I suggest you investigate UPB.

You'll need a wiring closet, or dedicated basement corner, or laundry room closet. Pick a place - most of your LV wires will be 'home run' to this location.

You need to decide if you ever want a distributed audio system. Good ones are usually 'hard wired', but Sonos and Logitech Squeezebox offer wireless systems, good for retrofit applications - but also often used in new construction. Sonos seems a little better than Squeezebox, IMO. Where do you want in-wall and/or in-ceiling speakers? Wire for them now.

Gosh, I could go on for a few hours - prob a lot easier if you say what you'd like to do, rather than me rambling about what could be done.

What size house? Budget conscious? Distributed video (source equipment in an AV rack)? Motion detectors for lights? Attic above, unfinished basement or crawlspace below?

It will take a lot of time for you to figure out what you need - be patient.
 
The other thing I'd mention is to let go of your Linux attachments. I have recently started using Ubuntu and I love it. If it weren't for Flash and CQC, I'd leave Windows forever but, the Linux based automation systems now available are, well, fugly and limited. Hate to say it but, it's true...
 
Thanks so much Neurorad

Good start for me.

Well to answer your questions [and mine I guess]

1. Light control sounds great! I am in for that.
2. A house wide audio system sounds what I'd like too. Getting a few rooms in mind ;)
3. Control of alarm system would be good [additional warning if tripped I suspect?]
4. Cost is not much of an issue as the house is costing a bunch anyway, so it's all part of that.
5. I will have a room that will be partly dedicated to my servers and switches, so it can all go with that.
6. Size of house is a tri-level 4 bedroom. If that makes sense. 32 squares.

Please go on and on :)
So I might continue reading 102 and 103 of the wiring guide, or will it make less sense than 101 did for me? :)

What is HAI, Elk and HVAC?

Thanks again for the speedy reply.

oh PS
A local expert you say. How do I find that? What "title" is a home automation specialist under? Could hire someone in this area that can do all my electrical and extra's and not bother with an electrician alone?
Yes I am confused and maybe not making much sense.

Thanks again!
 
AnthonyZ said:
The other thing I'd mention is to let go of your Linux attachments. I have recently started using Ubuntu and I love it. If it weren't for Flash and CQC, I'd leave Windows forever but, the Linux based automation systems now available are, well, fugly and limited. Hate to say it but, it's true...
Click to expand...

Hmmm well that is all I run. What OS is better you think??
 
Elk links
http://www.elkproducts.com/products/m1/elk-m1.htm
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/Home/Elk-M1...34Pa38Ta38Sbh90
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showforum=42

HAI links
http://www.homeauto.com/main.asp
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showforum=55
http://www.worthingtondistribution.com/cgi...s/yabb2/YaBB.pl
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/Home/HAI-Co...rs/HAI-PROMO12e

HVAC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVAC

You choose subsystems (lighting system, thermostats, irrigation controller, distributed audio system, etc) than can be controlled by a home automation controller, via IP or RS232. That controller can be the Elk M1 (or M1EZ8) or one of the HAI controllers, and if that isn't enough you use a PC-based controller (Premise SW is another good one that I didn't mention above, it's FREE, search cocoontech).

Whatever you consider using, read the manuals first, and search for discussions of those particular products.
 
Anthony did not say Linux was bad or there were another better, he just said there were no good HA apps on Linux. You need Windows. No, its not a better O/S, just has the most and best HA apps available.

And I would make sure electrician has neutrals in ALL your switch boxes, even single gang.

And I would probably not use an electrician to run low voltage wire, they are very different specialties. Get a professional low voltage installer. Try to negotiate with the builder to let you do that part yourself.
 
A Custom Installer is a guy who deals with low voltage cables, typically in the setting of an AV install, but also with home automation, LAN/network installation, and maybe alarms.

Try a local google maps search for custom installers, look at their websites.

I second the rec for reviewing Broconne's thread - he started right where you are now, about a year ago, IIRC.
 
Steve said:
Anthony did not say Linux was bad or there were another better, he just said there were no good HA apps on Linux. You need Windows. No, its not a better O/S, just has the most and best HA apps available.
And I would make sure electrician has neutrals in ALL your switch boxes, even single gang.
And I would probably not use an electrician to run low voltage wire, they are very different specialties. Get a professional low voltage installer. Try to negotiate with the builder to let you do that part yourself.
Click to expand...
I agree with everything Steve has said so far.

Also... I don't think most people [who (maybe) have seen something on TV about Home Automation] really understand it. I would even go as far as to say that many advertised Home Automation Products... are designed to be marketed.. not used. I think.. this adds to the confusion about Home Automation.. and the expectations of its use. I believe...there is a natural progression of Home Automation use.... that goes from simple control (remotes) to sensor-ed and programmed logical automation. I don't think a person can plan... as to where they want or will be... at any point in this progression.

I would hope [no DREAM is the better word] your homes floor plan includes a wiring, control, equipment closet of some sort. A single area or place where phone, TV, Internet, and Home electrical breakers are located. Where clear conduits or wiring races are present to then distribute services to other areas of the home. At least having these things central to each other (AND neutrals in ALL your switch boxes) would be a huge help.
 
Hey Dave,

As they say, you can do it the hard way (as most of us do just becuase it's quite enjoyable) or you can do it the easier way. Since you are starting fresh with a new build I would think you want to do it the easier way. One of the nice things is that you can combine both. Start with an expert and then play to your heart's content.

I tend to think of starting with a core system that's firmware based and not OS based like a computer. PC's have become much more reliable but not to the extent I am comfortable with. A core system would be ELK or HAI (Home Automation Inc) and a few others. They manage security, safety, lighting, HVAC, whole house audio and much more. The beauty is that they have their own solutions for each functionality but also have partnerships with leading specialists in each function. I happen to prefer HAI and have never had a problem that I haven't initiated on my own. :D I'm sure ELK is the same.

Sometimes a big part of an alarm company's revenue stream comes from monitoring and I've found that they are less likely to install comprehensive communicating automation systems as their core security system. If you went to the HAI or ELK website they would have a list of certified installers in your area. Most installers will work with you from as early as the blue-print phase to help you design your system. Believe me, nothing replaces experience in saving money and headaches down the road. You can contract a dealer to only do the design. It's not cheap but it's well worth it. That way you will have all of your cableplant designed for window and door contacts, motion sensors/detectors, glass break, thermostats, temperature sensors, smokes, gas detectors, CO Detectors, leak detectors, speakers for whole house audio and even AV for whole house Hi Def video distribution.

You will end up with a design layout of all the cabling paths and specifications which you can then have the consultant bid on as well as others. Even if you don't plan to use something now, its often best to install the cable anyway and leave it buried within the wall, well marked on the blue-print. But beware of the cableplant DMZ. This happens when one company, maybe the electrician installs the cables while another company does the terminations. If there's a problem with the cable passing specs when you go to use it (bend radius too tight, nicked by a stud nail, pinched between framing), it will probably be the OTHER guy's fault.

Good luck and have a blast!

Rick
 
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