No Internet - Want to Remotely Flip Switch

[jtw]

Hi All!  This should be a good one.  We don't have internet at our vacation home.  But we want to be able to flip one particular switch in the house remotely a few times a year.  I'm looking for a cost effective way to do so, considering initial set-up cost and costs over the next 10 years.
 
The easy solutions we can come up with aren't cheap:  Get internet service for $30/month, wifi hotspot, and wifi enabled switch and app.  $300+ per year to flip a switch on and off 10 times per year is a little much.
 
We've also seen pay-as-you-go plans that may cost us $25 for 3 months of service.  Nice annual cost reduction, but we have to remember to keep adding minutes.  We would still have to buy a mobile hotspot, wifi switch and app.
 
Any other ideas?

 

[dementeddigital]

Hi All!  This should be a good one.  We don't have internet at our vacation home.  But we want to be able to flip one particular switch in the house remotely a few times a year.  I'm looking for a cost effective way to do so, considering initial set-up cost and costs over the next 10 years.
 
The easy solutions we can come up with aren't cheap:  Get internet service for $30/month, wifi hotspot, and wifi enabled switch and app.  $300+ per year to flip a switch on and off 10 times per year is a little much.
 
We've also seen pay-as-you-go plans that may cost us $25 for 3 months of service.  Nice annual cost reduction, but we have to remember to keep adding minutes.  We would still have to buy a mobile hotspot, wifi switch and app.
 
Any other ideas?

 
What are you trying to switch?  Can you put a controller there with some if-then intelligence to decide when to flip the switch?
 
Do you have a landline phone there?

 

[jtw]

No landline phone.  We're wanting to turn the de-icing gutter system on and off.  There IS a mechanical device that says ' if wet AND cold' turn on.  But, per Amazon reviews, it is unreliable.

 

[wkearney99]

If I'm not mistaken, some alarm systems have the ability to control z-wave devices.  And some use cellular data as their means to report situations.  Do any of the ones that use cellular data also offer the ability to remotely control devices connected to the console?  Or are they assuming/requiring there to be a separate internet connection for that?
 
Otherwise what's the logic behind the switch being flipped?  If it's schedule-based that's one thing.  If it's related to detecting some other conditions then you're into different territory.  
 
Then there's the question of how important is the performance of this activity and how quickly do you need to know that it has (or hasn't) taken place?

 

[wkearney99]

No landline phone.  We're wanting to turn the de-icing gutter system on and off.  There IS a mechanical device that says ' if wet AND cold' turn on.  But, per Amazon reviews, it is unreliable.

 
posted-across your reply.
 
Yeah, detecting outdoor moisture, reliably and in an unattended scenario can be problematic.  Eventually there's the problem of gunk causing the sensor to become unreliable.  Either stuck open or not registering.  There's just too many things that can lead to sensor failure.  Atmospheric dirt, animal or insect interactions, corrosion, etc.  
 
I have a gutter downspout that tends to freeze up.  I'm debating how to best handle it.  The real question is what pattern of usage would work most effectively for de-icing?  Catching it once it's frozen is a problem because by then it's already failing to drain the water.  Running it ahead of time would depend on interacting with something that provided it current weather forecasts.  How much heat is necessary to avoid problems?  How long "after" does it need to continue to provide heat?
 
Eventually it circles around to whether it's better to just leave it running once air temp drops below a certain threshold, regardless of actual conditions.  There I'd worry about animals discovering a warm cozy nesting place...

 

[jtw]

The security system is a Visonic PowerMax Pro.  My understanding is that outputs are not possible with this.
 
The action will not be schedule based.  We'll just have someone in the neighborhood text us when it snows.  We only plan to have a way to give folks access to the house in an emergency.  We really don't want to add an external switch.  We'd rather have remote verification.

 

[jtw]

The security system is a Visonic PowerMax Pro.  My understanding is that outputs are not possible with this.
 
The action will not be schedule based.  We'll just have someone in the neighborhood text us when it snows.  We only plan to have a way to give folks access to the house in an emergency.  We really don't want to add an external switch.  We'd rather have remote verification.

 

[pete_c]

Many many years ago used one of those Heathkit / Sensaphone with speech (?) 
 
While it was configured for remote control via telephone you programmed it to automatically do stuff via sensors.
 
If you will do not have a telephone connection but it'll still function.
 
Guessing then you are not using any central station monitoring with your alarm panel eh?
 
Can you get to any of the neighbors wireless access points from the house? 
 
You cannot remote to anything in the house unless you have a means of transport (cellular, copper telephone, satellite, wireless serial (?) or network (wireless)).
 
Guess too if the house is visible from your neighbors home you could use a little laser beam to an analog switch maybe?  (you could adjust / fix the beam so it never moves)

 

[wkearney99]

The security system is a Visonic PowerMax Pro.  My understanding is that outputs are not possible with this.
 
The action will not be schedule based.  We'll just have someone in the neighborhood text us when it snows.  We only plan to have a way to give folks access to the house in an emergency.  We really don't want to add an external switch.  We'd rather have remote verification.

 
So what about considering a change to the alarm system to one that could?  Or, as Pete asks, is it not being centrally monitored anyway?
 
I've been noodling around with a Raspberry Pi lately.  There's a ton of clever things being done with them.  One feature they have is the ability to attach a camera.  I'd wonder if some sort of visual detection might not be possible.  As in, it sees snow on the roof, so it trips the heaters.    It'd have to tied into some logic regarding day/night, of course.  There'd have to be some place to put the camera, and power for it.  Any points where one could be mounted?  Might even want to consider putting an indicator light visible from outside that'd let a neighbor be able to tell if the system had tripped.

 

[Del91574]

How about what sort of communications methods exist at the site?
 
There's alarm type cellular units that have open collector outputs or relay outputs, so outlay is the infrastructure (device) and the recurring charges. Uplink and Telular both have units that have outputs that are controllable, but depends on the application.
 
Sensaphone comes to mind.

 

[dementeddigital]

You don't happen to have an amateur radio license, do you?  I think that you could do this over APRS with the right path settings.
 
I'd want to automate it, though.  Since the de-icer already has some logic, it sounds like you just need a switch for safety in case the de-icer's controller fails. 
 
You could use something as simple as a bi-metal sensor to open the circuit above a certain temperature.  You'd have to hunt for the right part, but maybe something similar to this: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CS702025Y/317-1495-ND/2195509  During warm times, the bimetal would be open, disabling the de-icer.  When the temperature drops, it would close and turn the de-icer (and its controller) on.  Build the thing into an electrical box for safety, and mount it to the wall outside the house.
 
Or you could build your own sensor/switch, if you feel comfortable enough to do that.  An Arduino, thermistor, and relay would do the job, but that requires some level of comfort with those things.  If I were to go that route, I'd make my own PCB for reliability and I'd probably use a PIC.  YMMV.
 
Or you could install an Omni Pro II and internet access but that would certainly be more expensive.  Of course that would allow you to control anything you want, you could install some cameras, too...

 

[dementeddigital]

How about what sort of communications methods exist at the site?
 
There's alarm type cellular units that have open collector outputs or relay outputs, so outlay is the infrastructure (device) and the recurring charges. Uplink and Telular both have units that have outputs that are controllable, but depends on the application.
 
Sensaphone comes to mind.

That's a good idea, too.  You can get a no-contract SIM with low minutes and pay-as-you-go messages for about $10 per month.

 

[IVB]

hang out here for a few months, then you'll decide to rent out the vacation home 2 weeks per year and use the income to offset the cost of putting in an Elk security/automation system to do that and much more
 
BTW, I got my MIL an AT&T Go Phone. $100 refill lasts 12 months, I get a notification when its time to renew, and its good for a handful of calls and texts per month.

 

[jtw]

The Visonic PowerMax Pro security system that we've had here for several years has a SIM card in it.  We're gold members with T-Mobile, which makes it very cost effective to keep minutes loaded.  We can arm and disarm the system remotely.  And yes, we have a monitoring company.
 
I was hoping the system had some kind of output, but it doesn't.  So, I was hoping I could buy a different unit that would work with the same sensors.  But they say 'no'.
 
A land line based system may be cheap, and more convenient than the pay as you go hotspot.
 
Not knowing when to turn it off is an issue.  But something is better than nothing,  
 
Temperature, only, is interesting.  The system would stay on ALOT, as this is a cold area.  But $100/yr in pay as you go fees vs. the power consumption AND the guarantee that I won't get icing is interesting.

 

[pete_c]

You could then maybe install a Sensaphone which could be may be connected to the cellular line if there is a pass through?
 
I see a broadband powerlink / powerlink2 module but that would only work with an internet connection.