OMNI Pro II - Communicator TRBL Now issue

[nemesis]

Good afternoon,
      I have had an HAI OMNI Pro II running flawlessly at my house for a couple of years now .  All of a sudden I am having an issue with the Digital Communicator.  The Central Station is not receiving verification from my system anymore.  In testing it, it does not call out for an alarm either.  Here is what I have checked thus far:
 
*   I have verified that the phone line is active right at the terminals on the board by use of a hand held phone and jumper wires. 
*   The system appears to see the phone line because the light marked "phone" on the board illuminates when any phone is picked up in the house.
*   When the system attempts to dial out, you can hear audible clicks from what sounds like a relay on the board.
*   When the system attempts to dial out, it appears to seize control of the phone line as the other phones in the house lose their ringtone.
*   Within Dealer PC Access 3, in the field marked "Phone Number 1" under "Digital Communicator", I have replaced the Central Station's phone number with my personal cell phone to see if there is actually a call being placed.  My cell phone does not ring when the system is attempting to dial out.
 
Information that you may need:
 
*   HAI OMNI Pro II  -  20A01-3  -  Rev E  -  122523-2  -  06964329000L  -  03130523
*   Firmware Revision 3.15
*   Normal POTS copper phone line service with DSL (DSL filter has been in place since before the system was installed with no issues for the OMNI.
*   Alarm Monitoring performed by Alarm Relay
 
Any help that you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Del91574]

Do you have access to a butt set? Can you take an analog phone and a basic cable and put on the outbound phone lines and once the panel starts it's clicking portion, listen to what's going on with the lines themselves?

 

[nemesis]

Unfortunately I do not. But I am not opposed to getting one (had to Google first to see what it was).  Do you have a recommendation on a decent one?

 

[ano]

With Dealer PC Access make a full backup. Then fully reset the board and restore. You'll have to set the IP address and a few things manually to access it. I had this problem once as well. I believe a surge or something like that caused it. 

 

[pete_c]

+ on resetting the OmniPro 2 as suggested by ano. 
 
Do you have a recommendation on a decent one?
 
You can just go outside to the phone box, open it up and spit the incoming line to two lines before it goes in to the home.  There are two sides to the box that you can open / see.  Here is a picture of a phone line splitter.
 

 
 
 

 

[nemesis]

I want to thank everyone for their help so far, but still no luck.  I have reset the system twice now.  To ensure I am doing what you expect by a hard reset, on a keypad console I am going to 9-Setup, #-INST, 6-MISC, and selecting RESET SYSTEM EEPROM.  On the second reset I even tried resetting the RAM first and then the EEPROM.  The system still has the same issue.
 
I have also spliced into the phone line coming into the house.  Now I am doing this with a regular handheld phone, so I am unsure if that throws something off compared to the professional tool, but when I listen in I do not hear anything coming from the OMNI.  You can hear the OMNI board enacting a relay several times, but I never hear it attempt to dial anything.  All I hear is a dial tone.  I did try hanging up and picking up at varying intervals compared to the relay clicking on the board to see if I was throwing it off, but still nothing.
 
Any additional suggestions?

 

[nemesis]

I forgot to mention that after each EEPROM reset, the system did appear to be back to factory settings.  The Installer Code is reset and none of my programming or time setting are there, so the reset appears to take effect.  It does not however appear to reset the firmware revision which I am assuming is normal, but thought I should mention it just in case.

 

[pete_c]

but when I listen in I do not hear anything coming from the OMNI
 
Well you know it is seizing the line and now you know it is not dialing out. 
 
The not dialing out is an issue and if you have not touched anything then it might be a hardware problem. 
 
Start baby steps first checking out the RJ31X.  It is really a basic wired device that never goes bad unless the cables are not making contact.
 
Check the wires on the RJ31 X especially the wires going from the RJ31X to the OPII terminal.
 
I very much doubt that this would be an issue; but check it anyways.
 

 

 
Yup and a cold reset does just that.  You have to reload your stuff from the backup.  It doesn't change the firmware level as you have seen.
 
A warm reset is different as it doesn't delete your stuff.

 

[nemesis]

Pete,  
     Again, thank you for your help!  What I did to test the line itself is cut the end off of a telephone line, stripped the ends, and attached them on the OMNI PRO board where the incoming lines are connected.  I did have a dial tone right there at the board, so I believe that eliminates a phone line issue unless I am overlooking something.  What would by my next item to check?

 

[pete_c]

eliminates a phone line issue
 
Yup.
 
You checked the 4 wires connected to the OPI2 board for tightness eh?
 

 
Next to to check those 4 terminals on the OmniPro2.
 

• Red to "R" or "Ring" contact. (Ring, from phone company.)
• Green to "T" or "Tip" contact. (Tip, from phone company.)
• Grey to "R1" contact. (Ring, To inside phones)
• Brown to "T1" contact. (Tip, to inside phones)

The terminals are the same for any alarm.  Here is another picture.
 

 
Not sure if you would hear anything but try to disconnect the two terminal posts that go out to phone company and listen there for dialing?  This would be the same as the test you just did except for using the terminals on the alarm panel. 
 
Think you did this already (clip and paste from the installation manual)
 
Verify the following if you have trouble during check out: With the system running, the RJ31X jack properly connected and all phones on-hook (hung up), the PHONE LED, located in the upper
left corner of the controller, should be OFF.  If it is on, reverse the RED and GREEN wires to both the house phones and the telephone company wires at the RJ31X jack.  When the receiver is picked up on any phone,
the PHONE LED will come on.  When the phone line rings, the PHONE LED will light.
 
Can you do a screen print of your phone settings in PCA? 
 
Here is the stuff from PCA on my panel.  Tone (standard stuff).
 

 
Contact ID (standard stuff)
 

 
Starting to get in to the HAI Omni Pro 2 rabbit hole here.
 
The most basic pieces of the alarm panel is the phone stuff and it is made never to fail. 
 
Have you had storms or lightning lately?  Does anything on the board near the phone terminal vicinity look toasted?  Does it smell like burnt stuff?
 
A re post clip and paste here from 2009 (similar issue posted here on CT).
 
Update 12/15 - Found out the problem WAS with the RJ31X. Input and output were reversed. The RJ31 was mounted upside down vs the HAI diagram and I forgot to account for that (even after several checks!) Problem became evident when I realized the OPII couldn't seize the phone line with an alarm - it was seizing the house phones! PaulD pegged it.
 
Here is another post from December, 2013....one issue and one solution...not sure though it would be related to your issue.
 
Question:
I have a HAI Omni LTe panel installed (it replaced an older HAI Omni that fried) and I'm trying to get it to dial out via tone dial, but it doesn't seem to work. In fact, this is an issue even with the old unit so I had always thought maybe it was a problem with my old HAI unit.

What I figured out is that when the panel takes the phone line off hook, the phone company for some reason is detecting it as a pulse dial "1"... so the "hack" I did was to reconfigured to pulse dial and had it dialed the full 800-xxx-xxxx number without the "1" in the beginning.

This is less than ideal as pulse dial is slower than tone dial.

Also, my normal phones work fine (all connected via the RJ31X controlled by the panel) when I take them off hook -- I get a dial tone and can dial via tone dial.
So, anyone have any ideas what I should look at? Since this is a new panel and both this panel and the old one exhibit the same problem, I'm less inclined to think it's the panel that's the problem.
 
Answer:
 
Sounds like a phone line ground issue if it's detecting the off hook as a pulse.
 
Question:
 
How do I diagnose if it really is a ground issue and how does one resolve it?
 
Answer:
 
The telephone wires are not referenced to ground. Rather, they are a balanced, twisted pair, which provides good noise immunity.  If one of the wires in the pair was grounded accidentally, this would cause problems on your phone line.  Your telephone network interface box has surge protectors which do need a ground connection, so you will see a ground wire there.
 
Yet, when the phone company ran diagnostics on the line, it said everything was ok. It took the telephone repair guy many hours before he figured it out and decided to replace the network interface.
 
So one thing you might want to check is your network interface box.  If you can, remove it and try the line without it in the circuit and see if it makes any difference.
 
My suggestion is to temporarily bypass the network interface box completely so that there are no connections to it from either side.   On some network interface boxes, the surge protectors can be removed and replaced, but it is easier to just disconnect everything and tie the house wires directly to the telco wires for a quick test.

 

[nemesis]

Good evening Pete, Del, and Ano,
       I want to sincerely thank you for your help with this issue!  I respect your knowledge and have learned an unbelievable amount from your posts on here.  Unfortunately I have worked through all of the suggestions with no luck.  I also received a reply to an email regarding this issue that I had sent to HAI.  The email was very helpful and I walked through all of their troubleshooting steps with the same result.  I will post the contents of their email in this thread to aid anyone else troubleshooting a similar issue.  The board recognizes the phone line indicated by the led.  It initiates enough of a signal to seize the line, but it fails to attempt any form of dialing procedure.  It then hangs up, waits and seizes the line again.  It does this even with all expansions/add-on boards removed and only the DCIM set-up through a keypad console (in other words, a bare bone system).
      Now for the full-disclosure part.  I apologize but I left out one big piece of the puzzle.  We had an incident in the house where a sink was run over on the main floor.  Even though the sink is twenty feet away from where the panel sits in the basement, by the magic of Murphy's Law, the water traveled through the sub-floor and joists ending up with some of the water running directly down the enclosure with the alarm panel in it.  We realized that something was wrong when the alarm went crazy flipping light on and off, sounding the siren, etc.  I quickly powered everything down and spent the next several hours drying the board with a hair dryer.  We let everything sit for a week with the dehumidifier running on high in the room.  Imagine our surprise when after that week, the system booted right up and appeared to run perfectly.  It wasn't until a little while later that we realized the system was not dialing out.
      The reason that I did not provide this piece of information is that too often people will jump right to the idea that the board is fried when they hear something like that without wanting to help troubleshoot first.  I simply wanted to ensure I had tried troubleshooting the entire problem before admitting defeat that something had gone wrong with the board.  For this reason I thank everyone for your help.  I feel that all options have been exhausted and just ordered a new board a few minutes ago.  I will let you know when it arrives and is hooked up, whether or not it was truly the issue (I strongly believe it is).
      As a point of reference for anyone in the future, the water ran down the right hand side of the board. Having now removed the expansion board that was covering that area I can see that there is some corrosion around relays K1 and K2 on the board.  The rest of the board from the front side appears fine.  I know that when the system seizes the line there is the audible click of a relay, I am thinking that at least one of these relays is involved in the process and may have corrosion within its terminals.  May be a fun project some day to attempt to replace and see if it corrects it.

 

[nemesis]

Troubleshooting instructions provided by HAI:
 




[SIZE=10.5pt]Troubleshooting Central Station Dialout Issues[/SIZE]




[SIZE=9pt]Problem Summary:[/SIZE]


The purpose of this procedure is to provide the proper steps to follow to successfully determine where dialout failures are occurring, what the causes are, and how to resolve them.
The initial report is that the HAI system is not dialing out to a Central Station (CS).  The report may/may not include additional information about the system and/or steps taken to check the phone line.


[SIZE=9pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Causes:[/SIZE]
 


[SIZE=9pt] [/SIZE]
Possible causes for a dialout failure are:
 
[SIZE=9pt]1.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Improper application[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]2.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Lack of patience/knowledge of dialout procedures[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]3.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Improper controller setup[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]4.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Improper phone line wiring and/or phone system connection[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]5.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]DSL[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]6.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]VoIP[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]7.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]CS settings and/or compatibility[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]8.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Corrupted data in the controller[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]9.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Component failure[/SIZE]


[SIZE=9pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Resolution:[/SIZE]
 


You should follow the procedures and checks in order – this will reduce the risk of “chasing windmills”, as some issues are related to simple understanding of the dialout procedure.
 
[SIZE=9pt]1.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]What type of HAI system (and firmware) is installed[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]?[/SIZE]
 
The type of system, along with firmware can be the root of the problem.  Older systems (1503 and Omni series) do not support Contact ID, which requires the CS to accept 4/2 or 3/1 reporting formats.  Firmware is not typically related to dialout failures, but could be related to desired effects.
 
[SIZE=9pt]2.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Does the console (LCD or OmniTouch) display “COMMUNICATOR TRBL NOW” or “COMMUNICATOR HAD TRBL”?[/SIZE]
 
If the console displays a communicator error message, you “know” there is a problem, and you can continue checking the system.
 
If there is no such message, it is possible that there is no problem, but rather a lack of understanding.  When an alarm occurs, the following steps are preformed by the controller:
a.[SIZE=7pt]       [/SIZE]Any Entry Delay is started.
b.[SIZE=7pt]      [/SIZE]After any Entry Delay has exhausted, any Dialout Delay is started.
c.[SIZE=7pt]       [/SIZE]After any Dialout Delay has exhausted, the controller seizes the phone line and begins the dialout procedure.
d.[SIZE=7pt]      [/SIZE]If the dialout procedure fails, the controller will wait 15 seconds and tries again.  The controller will attempt to dialout to the CS up to 5 times.
e.[SIZE=7pt]       [/SIZE]If the controller does not complete a successful dialout to the CS, the “COMMUNICATOR TRBL NOW” appears on the console for 1 minute – after 1 minute the controller resets the message to display “COMMUNICATOR HAD TRBL”.
 
With the above stated, a “complete” dialout failure can take 8-10 minutes.  If, at any time, the system is disarmed, the dialout will cancel.
 
To adequately test the dialout procedure for failure, you should disconnect any sirens and allow the system to remain in alarm until the procedure completes.
 
[SIZE=9pt]3.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Is a two-way voice module installed?[/SIZE]
 
If a two-way voice module is installed on the system, remove it and re-test the dialout.  A compatibility or hardware failure related to the two-way voice module can cause dialout failures.
 
[SIZE=9pt]4.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Can you access the Voice Menu from a house phone?[/SIZE]
 
The Voice Menu and Digital Communicator use the same circuitry.  This test can provide immediate direction on what to check.  If you can access the system, then you can be reasonably assured that phone wiring is sound, in general.
 
If you can not access the Voice Menu (pressing the “#” key returns a “fast busy” or telco message), you “MUST” resolve this issue before further troubleshooting can be accurately performed.  At this point, you should inspect:
a.[SIZE=7pt]       [/SIZE]RJ-31X Jack – most of the time, the fast busy signal is related to the jack being wired backwards (incoming telco is wired to the distribution terminals and the distribution wires are connected to telco terminals).  A quick test would be to bypass the jack, running the telco wires directly to the green & red terminals on the controller and testing the dialout.
b.[SIZE=7pt]      [/SIZE]DSL – if DSL is installed, an Alarm DSL filter or splitter “MUST” be installed – the standard filters from the telco will not work.  Also, if DSL is installed, but a second line is used, a DSL “tester” should be used to confirm there is no “DSL bleed-over”.
c.[SIZE=7pt]       [/SIZE]VoIP – VoIP (Voice Over IP) is becoming very popular.  If you are using VoIP, you should immediately contact your monitoring company to confirm they are compatible with VoIP.  Although voice menu access via house phones is compatible, most monitoring companies are not compatible with VoIP.
d.[SIZE=7pt]      [/SIZE]If none of the above provides resolution, you should research the “Telephone Access” documentation in the HAI Knowledgebase.
 
[SIZE=9pt]5.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Can you dial into the system from remote[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]?[/SIZE]
Although rarely seen, it is possible that some phone line anomaly could allow local access, but not provide remote call in and dialout.  This test, in conjunction with #4 above, will definitively confirm that the controller should be able to dialout to the CS.
 
[SIZE=9pt]6.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Do you have the Digital Communicator set up properly[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]?[/SIZE]
 
Using a console (not PC Access software), go to Setup>>Installer>>DCM, and check the following:
[SIZE=9pt]a.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Make sure the right phone number is entered.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]b.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Although dashes can be used to separate digits within the number, there should not be a dash at the beginning of the number – this will cause the Digital Dialer to not call out.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]c.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Verify that the proper Account Code is entered.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]7.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]What do you hear when you monitor the phone line[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]?[/SIZE]
 
This test check will require the use of a butt kit.  HAI recommends disconnecting the RJ-31X jack from the system, and running a clean pair from the telco demarc, directly to the green & red phone terminals on the controller.  The butt kit should also be connected to the same pair and set to monitor.
 
What you “should” hear is:
a.[SIZE=7pt]       [/SIZE]The controller pick should up the line (click).
b.[SIZE=7pt]      [/SIZE]The Digital Dialer should dial the number (DTMF tone transmissions).
c.[SIZE=7pt]       [/SIZE]When the CS answers, a handshake should take place between the controller and CS receiver (multi-pitch fax/modem tones).
d.[SIZE=7pt]      [/SIZE]After successful handshake, the controller should begin transmitting data (DTMF tone transmissions).
e.[SIZE=7pt]       [/SIZE]After data transmission complete, a “kiss off” tone should be heard from the CS receiver.
f.[SIZE=7pt]        [/SIZE]The controller should hang up immediately.
 
What you “may” hear is:
a.[SIZE=7pt]       [/SIZE]The controller picks up the line and after 3-5 seconds, disconnects from the phone line.  This would indicate that the controller is not sensing the phone line voltage (dial tone).  Although the controller does have a “force dial” (security industry standard where non-recognition of the phone line will initiate a mechanism where the controller will release the line, wait 15 seconds, and then seize the line and dialout whether it senses the line or not) feature, this could be a contributing factor.  At this point you might want to check the onhook/offhook/digital readings from the console for indications of phone line anomalies.  If no anomalies are detected, use a console to reset the System RAM (Setup>>Installer>>Miscellaneous>>Reset System RAM).  If any are detected, you should contact the local phone authority.
b.[SIZE=7pt]      [/SIZE]The controller initiates a force dial (as described above), but the controller DTMF tones are emitted over the dial tone.  There is phone line interference, probably related to an unknown phone connected to the telco side of the RJ-31X jack.
c.[SIZE=7pt]       [/SIZE]The controller picks up the line, makes the call, but gets no answer.  Verify the number through the CS.
d.[SIZE=7pt]      [/SIZE]The controller makes the call, then begins a handshake signal, but gets no response from CS receiver (the controller hangs up after 45 seconds).  Check with CS to make sure the controller and CS reporting formats match.  Change the reporting format, as necessary.
e.[SIZE=7pt]       [/SIZE]The controller makes the call, handshakes, and reports its data, but after receiving kiss off, maintains the connection for approximately 45 seconds and then hangs up.  At this point, the dialout is repeated over and over five times.  This would indicate that the controller is not recognizing the kiss off signal, so it continues trying the procedure.  To resolve, first contact the CS and confirm they are receiving multiple signals.  If so, either the CS receiver kiss off signal will have to be adjusted (there is no such adjustment on an HAI controller), or the reporting format will have to be changed.
 
[SIZE=9pt]8.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]If none of the above resolves the problem, you can perform the following steps to reset the System EEPROM and re-test:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]a.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Use PC Access to backup the customer file.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]b.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]From a console, go to Setup>>Installer>>Miscellaneous>>Reset System EEPROM, and follow the prompts to complete the reset.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]c.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]After reset, use the console to go to Setup>>Installer>>DCM, and set the Phone Number and Account Code.  NOTE:  Do not use PC Access for this operation and do not download the customer’s file into the controller at this time.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]d.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Simultaneously press and hold the 1 and 3 keys on the console – this will initiate a Police Emergency (burglary).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]e.      [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Monitor the phone line for performance.  If the dialout is successful, reload the customer’s file and retest.  If the dialout continues to fail, the controller must be sent in for repair/inspection.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=9pt]Related Information:[/SIZE]


[SIZE=9pt]Telephone Access Problems[/SIZE]

 





 


[SIZE=10pt]Modified 2/13/2009[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10pt]Keywords:[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10pt]Article ID: 601[/SIZE]






[SIZE=9pt]  [/SIZE]


[SIZE=9pt]HAI by Leviton
All Rights Reserved. HAI by Leviton 2013[/SIZE]

 

[pete_c]

Good news (well to know)...nemesis
 
Installing a new board isn't too difficult, rather it is a bit time consuming.  Take your time with it.  The terminals are all removable such that you can just lift them off and slide the new board under neath.  Just make sure there is no power to the board anywhere.
 
I do not know what you can do to protect the panel just in case it would happen again.  I have seen similar issues with the neighbours and their kids clogging up toilets and overflow leaking to the floor below.  (having then to repair entire drywall ceilings was a PITA).
 
Here the laundry room is on the first floor.  Old house / old laundry room was in the basement.  I redid the laundry room here removing the floor, put new cementboard over the original wood and tiled the floor making it pretty water tight.  It was very low on the WAF to have the washer/dryer disconnected and took about a week or so.   I have had one issue with our washer where the drainage hose broke and did leak but caused no issues.
 
I have seen a sort of similar gotcha post build relating to new construction....except that rain water went inside of a fuse panel and other places due to some piss poor construction (cheap) efforts. (forgot to install flashing was one reason).

 

[cobra]

HAI also has decent repair policies, so you can always send them the board and have it repaired.  

 

[nemesis]

Good morning everyone, just to provide an update.  I did purchase and install the new board.  All communication issues were resolved.  The system has been up and running flawlessly for several months now.  Thank you for your help!