Opinions on radiant electric floor heating?

[slipnfall]

Hi Folks,
I'm in the process of remodelling my basement: the end goal is to be a completely seperate apartment. The house is a split-foyer BTW. Our primary heating/cooling is a single stage heat pump (5t), for roughly a 2000sq' house. Split foyer implies the basement is roughly 1/2 the space.

Anyways, I'm wondering if you think electric radiant heat is worth the cost? Obviously the basement gets pretty darn cold in the winter, but there is one below-grade wall that spans the length of the house that is still bare block.

What I'm *really* trying to avoid is a future tennant littering the place with portable space heaters: those things will surely spin the meter. How well can radiant floor heating suppliment the primary heating system? Do you think this would be overkill once the basement is [fully] insulated?

Lastly, are the controlers for these things simply on/off, or is the power to the heating coils modulated? I have an existing Aprilair 8870 (IIRC) as a 'dummy' thermo for now, but I would *love* to be able to control both dependant and independant of each other.

Thanks for reading, I'v only recently come across the electric version: think huge heat blanket.

Cheers,
Jamie

 

[ginigma]

I put radiant heat in my master bathroom floor when I remodeled it a year ago. IMHO, it was the best thing I could have done. No more stepping on a freezing cold floor in the morning. I think it's Elektra brand? I can check if you really want to know. It's under tumbled stone tiles (16") and keeps the floor and room warm. My controller is on/off. Basically the wires are big resistors which heat up. I do have a simple timer control which turns it on and off for when I get up and when I leave the house. Unfortunately I didn't start my home automation projects in earnest until after I did the bathroom, otherwise I would have tied it into my automation controller (PowerHome on a PC).

Let me know if you want any more info.

 

[slipnfall]

... Unfortunately I didn't start my home automation projects in earnest until after I did the bathroom, otherwise I would have tied it into my automation controller (PowerHome on a PC). ...

Hey it's never too late!

How easy is it able to raise the ambient room temp.? More importantly: do you consider it an efficient supplement and/or replacement, or just a warm feeling on your feet?

Hey I'll admit I'm a numbers guy so any idea what your energy usage increased? It sounds like you may be using it a little more lightly that I would have to.

I glanced across the option of an on-demand heater/pump, but that's too many parts to maintain right now for me. There's enough on my plate. ‘Curious what a small system, for say 400sq’ would run? I think in general the electric runs about 10/sq’ for just the heating material.

If it’s none of the above options, that means I have to turn to some sort of baseboard or maybe modify my air handler for two zones. Ugh… why does it have to come down to money…

Ok, now it's time for me to do some homework: thanks for the link.

>>edit: FFT<<

 

[Digger]

I put radiant heat in my master bathroom floor when I remodeled it a year ago. IMHO, it was the best thing I could have done. No more stepping on a freezing cold floor in the morning. I think it's Elektra brand? I can check if you really want to know. It's under tumbled stone tiles (16") and keeps the floor and room warm. My controller is on/off. Basically the wires are big resistors which heat up. I do have a simple timer control which turns it on and off for when I get up and when I leave the house. Unfortunately I didn't start my home automation projects in earnest until after I did the bathroom, otherwise I would have tied it into my automation controller (PowerHome on a PC).

Let me know if you want any more info.

I did the same as you a year and a half ago and I believe that keeping the floor at 72 F is enough to walk on it bare feet and not even realize you are on tile. I also have mine on a setback thermostat and drop it to 68 but it stays warm for a while.

If I was to raise it to 80 F the room would feel much warmer and the floor warm to the touch but I didnt think it was worth it for one little room.

The company I used was Warmly Yours I think.

 

[pkoslow]

I've been involved in 5-6 jobs now with electric heat in baths & kitchens installed under tile. In each case it's been products from Nuheat. They have generic sized mats, but also do custom sizes and shapes to order.

http://www.nuheat.com/splash.html

Every client has loved it, but I've never lived with it myself.

Here in Santa Barbara, CA a "Chilly" night is around 36F and it's used as the only heat in the room (not suplimental). I think it can be succesfully used as the only heat source in much colder climates, but not sure how economical it would be?

The temp is also very slow to change... we're talking many hours compared to warming things up in a matter of minutes using forced air or a space heater. Because of this, it's something you set the thermostat for comfort and leave alone.

I've got friends in Steamboat, CO and they heat their entire home with in-floor hot water heat. Heck, they even have the hot water plumbed under the porch, sidewalk and driveway to melt off the snow & ice!

Cheers,
Paul

 

[robolo]

Funny you should ask about this as I have just remodeled a bath and added radiant floor heating as well. The one I used is from STEP Warmfloor and it is different from the other manufacturers as it is a low voltage system and instead of a wire that heats up (think of a toaster heating element) it is a self regulating thermoplastic membrane. As it warms it allows less current to flow thereby restricting the heat produced. The benefit is that it is entirely safe in wet environments (due to the low voltage) and it does not require a thermostat (although they do recommend one for large rooms), and is less likely to have the single element burn out. It is a relatively simple DIY install (except for transformer electrical connections to 120v). I have mine connected to a UPB electrical switch so I can control from automation system (turn it off on hot days). The web site is www.warmfloor.com

 

[slipnfall]

Nice, thanks for the link. They make an interesting point:

"Heat does not rise. Heat goes to cold. Hot air rises, which is why Step Warmfloor™ feels so comfortable. With Step Warmfloor™, heat is kept where it is needed – at the floor. "

So it doesn't sound like this is the ideal heat suppliment, more of a creature comfort. That would also mean I'd have to do the entire basement, which, at even $10/sq ft, that's a chunk of change (on top of the basic flooring costs).

 

[ginigma]

How easy is it able to raise the ambient room temp.? More importantly: do you consider it an efficient supplement and/or replacement, or just a warm feeling on your feet?
Yeah, it's mainly a comfort thing. I do have one vent (forced hot air) in the ceiling, but I do mostly close it in the winter, so I would say it keeps the room a little warm. I don't think it would be good as the primary heat source though.

Hey I'll admit I'm a numbers guy so any idea what your energy usage increased? It sounds like you may be using it a little more lightly that I would have to.
Yep, lower use than what you would use it for. I didn't bother checking the electric use, since at the remodel time,I also put in a steam shower, so that adds to the electric bill as well.

I glanced across the option of an on-demand heater/pump, but that's too many parts to maintain right now for me. There's enough on my plate. ‘Curious what a small system, for say 400sq’ would run? I think in general the electric runs about 10/sq’ for just the heating material.
Too lazy to go an measure the room right now, but I think the materials were like $900 and labor was $500 for the whole install.

If it’s none of the above options, that means I have to turn to some sort of baseboard or maybe modify my air handler for two zones. Ugh… why does it have to come down to money…

Ok, now it's time for me to do some homework: thanks for the link.

>>edit: FFT<<

For some pics of the material, check here: http://www.wanaque8.com/bathroom.htm
Scroll down to the January 16, 2006 date. That's where the radiant heat floor was laid.

 

[Digger]

I dont use mine as the sole heat source but I feel (or actually our feet feel) it was worth every penny. The electric type are very easy to install and the bathroom contractor did not even raise his quote since it only added 15 mins to his part of the project (laying the mesh down before the mud for the tiles). The room is 6 X 15 but the mesh was 3 X 12 (you dont go under cabinets, tiolet, or tub).

My cost was about $600 with a programable thermostat.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I dont use mine as the sole heat source but I feel (or actually our feet feel) it was worth every penny.

This makes a lot of sense as I've never known you to have "cold feet"! Now I know why!

 

[Digger]

I dont use mine as the sole heat source but I feel (or actually our feet feel) it was worth every penny.

This makes a lot of sense as I've never known you to have "cold feet"! Now I know why!

Ask any women that knows me.......... I dont have cold feet

 

[lazyone]

I have radiant heat my master bathroom. Two comments.

Everyone in our family loves it. Kids lay on it. Wife drys laundry on it. Water from the shower/bath evaporates, so the floor is not slippery as long.

Also, when our floor heat is on, the temperature in our master bedroom seems to be warmer. We actually turn it off during the summer so we are not air conditioning more. However, this is a house with a crawl space with insulated floor, not a basement with a slab.

lz

 

[pete]

I have radiant heat (hot water) throughout my house . . very comfotable, very efficient . .

electric would be less economical to run . . easier to install, though . .

is your current system sized for the whole area you plan on heating? (do you need more heat?)

if you system is sized correctly, the easiest thing might be zoning . .

what about cooling/dehumiidification?

you mention baseboard? do you have a boiler?

they have aluminum track that you lay on the floor w/ wood spacers, then run 5/16" hydronic tube, only takes 1/2" off the head room . . might be a good solution . . have a look here (no experience with this particular product, just for reference)

Pete C

 

[slipnfall]

I have radiant heat (hot water) throughout my house . . very comfotable, very efficient . .

electric would be less economical to run . . easier to install, though . .

is your current system sized for the whole area you plan on heating? (do you need more heat?)

if you system is sized correctly, the easiest thing might be zoning . .

what about cooling/dehumiidification?

you mention baseboard? do you have a boiler?

they have aluminum track that you lay on the floor w/ wood spacers, then run 5/16" hydronic tube, only takes 1/2" off the head room . . might be a good solution . . have a look here (no experience with this particular product, just for reference)

Pete C

Hi Pete: you're the first person to mention zoning. I didn't think it was normal to retrofit a zoning system to a single-zone unit. I guess it's all just a matter of duct work and controllers.

I presume I could still make use of my Aprilair 8870, correct? The zoning control would have to come from either the ELK or Aprilair's controller (?). I think the system is sized OK, but it may be worth having someone come in to verify.

Thanks, I think you're onto something here. My *main* concern with using the central HVAC for both upper and lower levels was the difference in heating needs. To satisfy the basement's heating requirements, would run me out of the house upstairs.

Jamie

 

[Madcodger]

We installed under-floor electric heat from Warmly Yours (www.warmlyyours.com) in two bathrooms of our previous house. Best thing we did to it, and we did a full remodel of the place. These were very small bathrooms, perhaps 100 sq ft, and only about 70 of that had heating mesh under it (no need under tub, impossible under toilet and sink, etc.). As I recall, it was costing us only a few cents per day to heat each of these and it was the ONLY heat source in each bathroom. One was over an unfinished / unheated basement, and the other over an unheated crawl space. We kept the floors themselves at 82, and used an in-floor sensor to control the temp rather than an ambient room temp sensor, and I would strongly recommend that. These were the two most comfortable rooms in the whole house, and we live not far from Philadelphia (some cold days in winter). I found the Warmly Yours folks to be experts at offering advice, very honest, and able to give you a pretty good idea of what the heating cost would be prior to actually purchasing it, based on your area, type of construction, etc.

Our new house has hot water radiant floor heat installed by the previous owner in two bathrooms, and we do NOT like it as well. It takes longer to heat the floors than the electric type did, and you're heating water in a tank that then gets transferred to tubing in the floor, where the heat is transferred again. There has to be some significant loss in all that, rather than just having the elements right under the floor. H2O-based radiant heat is probably great for solar, where one has it all over the house and can make use of a boiler, and other large-scale operations. For a small space, though, I'd take the electric type any day after owning both.

You asked about thermostat, on/off, etc. We used the programmable thermostat Warmly Yours supplied. Can't remember which one it is, but you can find it online at their site (they used to sell only one). It did modify the power a bit rather than being simple on / off. Higher current was used when starting up after being off overnight or during the day, and less when the system was just cycling on and off to maintain a temp.

When we build our next home, the entire thing will be heated ONLY with radiant floor heating. Good Luck with it!