planning a new build, need integration advice

[spintop1]

From what I can tell, the ALC setup for lighting would cost me more and would require more effort on my part. I have also read some posts where folks are worried about the future of the technology. I`m in Canada and I`m not sure how the Canadian Electrical Code and national Building Code accepts the use of low voltage wiring in the same electrical box as 120VAC. I haven`t seen any installations in my area, so I have no reference. The UPB just seems easier. It also has a good track record for reliability, although not 100% reliable like a hardwired solution. If I`ve missed something, please fire away.

I guess I missed the touchscreen option on the Homeseer selection. I don`t really want to buy two products that do essentially the same thing. I may have to revisit this one again. I have some programming experience, but I don`t want to spend hours writing code for my automation system. It seemed to me that Homeseer was a good pick, maybe not after all.

In my office, there`s an unused Northern telecom telephone switch with a battery backup unit, automated attendant, blah... blah. I asked the building owner if there were plans for it and he says it`s trash as far as he`s concerned. I haven`t got the model number but the telephone guy says it`s a powerful unit about 5 years old and would be excellent for home use, anyone every used such a thing in their homes.

Where do Canadians buy their stuff

 

[dutchyn]

Where do Canadians buy their stuff

I went with EDT iLine products. As far as I can see, it's struggling but still alive. My electrical inspectors (Saskatchewan) said they like it better than anything else they've seen, including the RF-based systems like Cooper, etc. To be fair, they saw the demo kit and verbally approved it "bonded conductor with 300V insulation". My electrician still wants it in writing.

I described the OnQ ALC solution, and they said they'd never be able to pass it: without 120V insulation value, you need 54mm separation between the HV and LV conductors.

I know of others in Canada who got it passed too.

Chris D.

 

[sic0048]

Where do Canadians buy their stuff

I went with EDT iLine products. As far as I can see, it's struggling but still alive. My electrical inspectors (Saskatchewan) said they like it better than anything else they've seen, including the RF-based systems like Cooper, etc. To be fair, they saw the demo kit and verbally approved it "bonded conductor with 300V insulation". My electrician still wants it in writing.

I described the OnQ ALC solution, and they said they'd never be able to pass it: without 120V insulation value, you need 54mm separation between the HV and LV conductors.

I know of others in Canada who got it passed too.

Chris D.

Well if they pass the iLine, they should be able to pass the ALC lighting. They both require a cat5 wire run to the HV switch. You just need to use a cat5 wire that has insulation rated for 120v. That is what iLine uses.

 

[dutchyn]

Well if they pass the iLine, they should be able to pass the ALC lighting. They both require a cat5 wire run to the HV switch. You just need to use a cat5 wire that has insulation rated for 120v. That is what iLine uses.

The iLine cables use a "bonded connector" that avoids opening up the outer (120V) sheath except inside the RJ45 connector. ALC opens the sheathing, leaving only the much-lower-rated individual conductor insulation exposed. Hence, your electrician must be careful to maintain the 50.8 mm separation between the individual thin conductors and the 120V romex. Code says that both the thin conductors and the romex must have 120V insulation rating if they are ever within 2 inches of each other -- and the individual conductors are not insulated well enough. Just from looking at the installation pictures, http://www.guardianalarms.net/home_securit...tion_Manual.pdf, they declared it was in violation of the CEC. Pressed harder, they said if I could get a written ruling from CEC they'd at least let me install it. But, they would carefully measure each box's installation to make sure no extra romex wire was at the back of the box, because the separation condition would be violated.

Given prior tales of drywallers and painters cutting the conductors that must enter by running over the front of the box, I gave up.

Chris D.

 

[felixrosbergen]

ALC suppliers an additional 600V insulation tubing to slide over the thin conductors....can't you put the splices to the cat5 in and then slide the tuber over the splices making a full 600v insulated connection?

I agree it woudl be nice if ALC simply had a RJ45 socket on the back...but they don't.

 

[Ranger Digital]

Yes, the supplied 600v sheathing supplied with each switch can cover your splices. do it all the time. The biggest issue is the switches are so big, its difficult at times to get all the wires, lv and hv, to stay away from each other in those tight quarters.

I will NOT put have the cat5 coming in from the top of the gang box (over the top and thru the front) because drywall crews dont "get it" and will cut half or more of them off. While it makes it MUCH easier to meet code requirements, its almost impossible to do the "front" install and not have many issues with the drywall subs. They do what the normally do and rotozip a gang box in about 3 seconds with zero reguard to the explicit directions and cautions of that little cat5 sticking thru the top of the gang box.

Dont even think about using any gang box less than the largets available. my issue with that is i cant find but on manufacturer that makes deep boxes, Carlon. And comparatively speaker, they are outraqeously expensive. SOmeone needs to make a deep box thats not the overly heavy duty and pricing that Carlon makes. If anyone has found any, please advise because it sucks paying almost 5 bucks for a quad gang box. Carlon makes a cheap single gang, but I can only find the very heavy duty in 2, 3 and 4 gang boxes. crazy! Why make just a single gang deep box and not 2 3 and 4 gang?

 

[spintop1]

OK, maybe I should talk to someone who actually sells the ALC Onq product before I decide. Who are the experts?

 

[Steve]

OK, maybe I should talk to someone who actually sells the ALC Onq product before I decide. Who are the experts?

Without a doubt, Tony at SetNet (Number20) on this forum. Look at some recent ALC threads like this one.

 

[spintop1]

OK, maybe I should talk to someone who actually sells the ALC Onq product before I decide. Who are the experts?

Without a doubt, Tony at SetNet (Number20) on this forum. Look at some recent ALC threads like this one.

I tried sending the folks at SETNETPRO an email but I didn't hear anything back. I've decided that 100% reliability is pretty important to me, the WAF demands it.

 

[spintop1]

OK, maybe I should talk to someone who actually sells the ALC Onq product before I decide. Who are the experts?

Without a doubt, Tony at SetNet (Number20) on this forum. Look at some recent ALC threads like this one.

I tried sending the folks at SETNETPRO an email but I didn't hear anything back. I've decided that 100% reliability is pretty important to me, the WAF demands it.

I've also tried Automated Outlet, nothing...

 

[Steve]

Well, not speaking for anyone but sometimes emails get blocked by spam filters or trashed. Sometime ya gotta do it the old fashioned way and pick up the tele. Their # is right there on the website (linked above). Or try PM to Number20.

 

[felixrosbergen]

I've spoken to tony at setnet before and he's quite helpfull...not sure if they can tell you whats code in canada...

Anyway...there's a couple of us sort on the brink of ALC installations...so we'd all be in the same boat....

 

[Neurorad]

Tony at SetNet is a little biased toward ALC. He's probably the largest volume distributor of ALC automated lighting products in the world.

OT, but I wish lighting stores carried larger varieties of automated lighting products. So difficult to hold the switch in my hand, to assess the quality and durability. I guess I need to go visit a national trade show or 2.

 

[sic0048]

Biased or not, he is certainly an expert on the system which is what Spintop1 is looking for. He just wants some answers to his questions.

Setnet is local to me, so I've actually met Tony. The entire group at Setnet is very friendly and helpful. I'd compare them to AO in that sense. Both stores will go out of their way to help you out.

 

[AceCannon]

I tried sending the folks at SETNETPRO an email but I didn't hear anything back. I've decided that 100% reliability is pretty important to me, the WAF demands it.

I've spoken on the phone with at least two people there. Each was very helpful.

The reason I decided on ALC instead of Insteon / UPB / Zwave is my perception that the reliability will be closer to 100% with hardwired. And ALC is the hardwired option closest to my budget.