planning a new build, need integration advice

[spintop1]

Hello all
I've been reading your forum for a few weeks. I have to say; I gathered some valuable information for my new home. As the subject line states, I'm in the process of planning to build a new home this fall and I’m collecting as much info as possible. This is DIY project, I'm an Newbie.
You've already answered some of my questions about where I plan to go with this build in other topics I’ve read, thank you. There are some very knowledgeable people here and it's great that some of the actual developers, engineers and product sales people are here as well.

My goal is to have all house systems integrated as much as I can and not have them too dependent on one another. I want reliability, and it should be relatively easy to configure. I don't mind spending the money if I believe that it will work well and last. I plan to buy most of the kit to bench test first and then buy the balance as I progress the build at the new construction. I've already got approval from my wife to spend a few bucks on making it a modern home. As far as I'm concerned, the rest is easy.

I want to have the "bulky" kit in a closet in the basement, this means all PCs and servers, set top boxes, Ethernet switches, controllers and relay panels. I want as much as I can, hardwired. I have used PLC lighting control before, and now it's time to try something more reliable. I’ve read wiring 101 (twice) and it’s clear I’m going to have miles of wire in this house, it will be HA ready.

This is my wish list, I’ve TENTATIVLY selected some brands but I'm not married to any.

Security System capable of some control (ELK M1G)
4-6 Cameras with DVR (nothing selected)
hardwired lighting control (OnQ-ALC)
whole house audio (NUVO Essentia E6G)
irrigation (from ELK)
HVAC control (maybe 2 zones, with another outside thermostat) with Outputs to an air-to-air heat pump, one probe outside (To ELK via OMNISTAT2 RC-1000 thermostat)
weather station (hardwired if possible)
Intercom system
Home Theater (possibly using the NUVO Speakers)
Use of KVM extenders to get the PCs in a closet in the basement
whole house HDTV (SageTV)
Centralized control touch screens. (no hardware or SW selected)
Any opinions on hardware are welcome here…….

So now my questions, please forgive me if these have been asked before, I couldn’t find these answers in any posts.

1. I don’t see any product available that will integrate all my products easily. I’d prefer to have off the shelf solutions. If I have to substitute products like the NUVO, then OK, but I’m pretty firm on the ELK and the hardwired lighting system. I see the ELK system has the RM software, which I think is the Operator Station (OS) software, but can it do control like CQC or ML. Can anyone suggest an integration product that can get me close?
2. The interface between the ELK and the ALC is done VIA the OnQ 364864-01 and the ELK-M1XSP serial expander, but is the lighting control done in the ELK or in the ALC unit? I seem to recall reading about scene control being difficult in the ELK as the rules are limited. I can’t find any documentation on the ONQ ALC. If there’s a better method, please advise. I see some people are using CQC and ML, but is there another option? If there isn’t which one would you choose?
3. For my whole house audio, I’d like to have a system like NUVO Essentia E6G but I an uncertain of their integration abilities to the ELK. Also on that note, if I’m going to wire the whole house for audio, couldn’t I use the same system for the output of the intercom as well for the ELK voice module? Has anyone done this?


I have 1 million more questions; but right now, they’re all in a jumble in my head and I am unable to organize them to get them into text.

More to follow…..

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Your going to have to use home automation software like HomeSeer or CQC to integrate your systems together. Download each and give them a try as they have a fully functional 'trial period'.

 

[nightwalker]

just looking at your list quick I believe you are way beyond the capabilities of the elk for what you want to do. I don't use the ELK but i do use the HAI Omni Pro II and they are similar in function and capabilities. You have to remember that both the ELK and HAI are first and foremost security panels, with an automation controller built in. Granted, they do a very nice job of automation, within reason but they do have limits.

To get all of what you list to work together you're going to need more than the ELK, a software solution, with a fair amount of hardware attached will be necessary IMHO. HomeSeer will allow all this integration, although not off the shelf and certainly not plug and play. That solution only exists if you hire someone to come and build you a turn key solution. There are other software packages that may also do it and I'm sure someone familiar with those will jump in and recommend their personal favorites.

 

[bfisher]

Another hardware controller to consider is the Homevision Pro. It is the central hub for my system - communicating with all the subsystems and controlling everything for me. You can click my link in my signature for more details (although I really need to update that... it's pretty outdated).

But HVPro connects to my UPB lighting, my GE Security, my HVAC system, my IR network, my audio systems, etc. It's the smarts for the entire house. I don't have Elk experience - but based on what you list above, your requirements appear similar to mine.

 

[felixrosbergen]

This brings up a good questions.

Can you trigger event in the ELK via IR? Is there a serial module or other module that can sit on the ELK databus and integrate IR?

Regarding ALC and ELK, from what i understand (since i am researchng the same) there is a special ELK<>ALC module that sits directly on the ELK databus so no serial expander needed.

You can configure scene through sequences of buttons and from what i understand they are stored in the ALC module. From the elk you can control (on/off/dim) lights or activate scene.

Somebody please correct me if i am wrong.

 

[123]

If you haven't reviewed the HA Technology Spreadsheet, it'd be good place to start your evaluation of HA software and hardware.

 

[Photon]

Tony Stewart, setnetpro.com, seems to really like the OnQ ALC solution:
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showto...l=alc&st=15

After reading his comments in this link and others, I would probaby visit his class before I built another house. I'm with the majority that believe hard wired is the only solution for total reliability. I couldn't make a decision to build it into the house until I learned a lot more about it, and I haven't found everything I want to know on the web. I could easily have run cat5e to all my electric switch boxes had I known about OnQ's system when I built a couple years ago.

 

[Ranger Digital]

we only install on-q alc and love. what do i hate about it? tiny little 24 gauge wires! we run cat5 and if no auxillarys are used on a dimmer or relay, only 2 wires are used. it can get tricky not breaking any wires and makin sure all have connectivity. but it all works great.

 

[TNTWebguy]

we only install on-q alc and love. what do i hate about it? tiny little 24 gauge wires! we run cat5 and if no auxillarys are used on a dimmer or relay, only 2 wires are used. it can get tricky not breaking any wires and makin sure all have connectivity. but it all works great.

Question...
I was looking into intercoms and FYI after much research, I have abandoned the greyfox cat5 intercom for 2 reasons



#1 OnQ/Legrand has discontinued the model (that is why it is cheap on ebay)Save your money



#2 Discontinued due to many complaints about noise and buzzing due to the old 110 cat5 punchdown installation procedure.



they have now upgraded to the InQuire Series and Selective Call series which fixes these problems...



My question is, If I purchase this kit with this distribution box

http://www.onqlegrand.com/products/IC5001


Can I essentially connect to my homeseer pc sound card using one of these Cat5 AV baluns?

http://www.svideo.com/vi.html



Can homeseer be a "channel" I can talk to?



Can I somehow use the door release mechanism to trigger homeseer to "listen"



Any advise would be appreciated



thanks

-TNT

 

[Ranger Digital]

The WORST thing about On-Q intercoms is, for now, they are not integratable. At least from a support stand point. That SUCKS. They are all stand alone units. Intercom and intercom only. Bummer. Go Russound ComPoint for sure on intercom.

On-q said at CEDIA last year in Denver in a year or two they would be integratable. They need to get off their duff and either support HA or not. They focus everything on Vantage.

 

[spintop1]

I took the advice of some of you and did more research into products for integration and now see I have to consider another product. I looked at the HA comparison spreadsheet and found it to be very helpful. It looks like Homeseer is probably the best for my purposes.

I've also reconsidered my lighting control. I like what UPB has to offer, seems to be the most reliable of the PLCs.

So this is where I am now:

ELK M1G for security and some control
4 Cameras with DVR, I purchased a Q-see package from Costco and found it to be very easy to setup but it was poor quality, so I returned it. How well does the elk handle this?
UPB lighting control
NUVO Grand Concerto
HVAC control (maybe 2 zones, with another outside thermostat) with Outputs to an air-to-air heat pump, one probe outside (To ELK via OMNISTAT2 RC-1000 thermostat)
weather station (hardwired if possible, but am unable to find any good quality products that easily integrate)
Intercom system (unknown as of yet, I'd like to have something to integrate with the NUVO)
Home Theater (possibly using the NUVO Speakers)
Use of KVM extenders to get all PCs in a closet in the basement
whole house HDTV (SageTV)
Centralized control touch screens. (no hardware)
Oh yeah, and Homeseer either Hometroller or PC version.


Opinions appreciated

 

[sic0048]

I think you are on the right track. Using a software (or even a hardware) based control system isn't going to be quite as plug and play as I think you were first hoping for, but it is because the flexibility that makes them so powerful also prevents them from just "working out of the box."

I see you dropped the ALC lighting in favor of the UPB lighting systems. Any particular reason? I don't have any lighting currently in my setup, but have always leaned towards the ALC system. Of course I also live about 20 minutes from SetNet and have seen the system in operation, so I know I would be in good hands should I ever go that route.

 

[upstatemike]

For intercom I would think carefully about wall mounted units. I find most of the time when I need to make or respond to an intercom call I am at my desk, or on the couch. Getting up to use a wall mounted unit would not be ideal. You might want to consider a phone system with intercom built in as it tends to be more usefule IMHO. I have a Panasonic system with 21 sytem phones and 5 regular phones. I can page from any phone to all system phones plus there is a page interface to connect to whole house audio systems or other paging amps for additional coverage. My Stargate controller can also make paging announcements for things like doorbels, mail delivey, etc. Phone based intercoms also let you have private station to station conversations as well.

Another option is the wireless intercoms like Chamberlain/Reporter. They are not made to be interfaced with other equipment but I bet it coud be done. (One of these days I'm going to buy a set and experiment with a Homeser interface)

 

[Steve]

I would seriously reconsider ALC or other hardwire lighting. Not a doubt in my mind that's what I would do if I had the chance over. Or at least a hybrid of the 2. You will be kicking yourself very hard the first time you have a PLC disturbance (noise/etc) and your lights fail to work as desired. Also, If you are looking to make fancy touchscreen interfaces, at this time I would look at CQC or MainLobby. Homeseer is coming out with some touchscreen software but I have no idea of its capabilities vs the proven players in CQC and ML.

 

[123]

Steve raises a valid point. Your list includes everything but the software needed to generate the UI that will appear on the touchscreens. Homeseer is an excellent HA program but lacks a UI-builder. Traditionally, users have added MainLobby to round out the package. Homeseer has announced they will provide their own solution to round out their package.

CQC offers automation control and the ability to create custom UIs. (Hmm, how did we overlook to include this parameter in the HA Comparison Spreadsheet: Does the HA package have a customizable GUI suitable for a touchscreen?) CQC's sticker-price is higher than competing products but it is an "all you can eat" price. Many HA products have a low initial price but the cost quickly mounts when you start paying for the additional drivers/add-ins/plugins/add-ons/side-dishes necessary to get the job done.