poor man's garden sprinkler

[politics123]

What are cons of using the diagram you drew earlier?

Well, not sure if there are really any cons with that schematic. I was just referring to the system I was using in lieu to worrying about receiving an X-10 OFF command (wrote a How-To on it). As you are hardwired to the Elk outputs directly, you shouldn't run into any problems (at least that I can see).

BAM!

With all the wirings you guys taught me last year, this ELK never gave me any headaches at all. It is very solid and very stable. Although, 3 weeks ago, water from faucet outside backfired due to bad garden hose. Water traveled outside the copper pipe in the basement. My ELK was sitting on a table. Water drip exactly to the zones. LOL. At 3am, it alarmed that even disarming it won't allow it. I got contacted by NextAlarm. I told the guy, I'll turn off my system since it's a false alarm. After few days, when I was sure that it was really dry, I turned it back on. Here I am again, very ecstatic that I bought ELK. My ELK just wanted a shower that morning. HEHEHE!

BSR --> just letting you know that your design helped me out, too!

I've been struggling with whether to purchase a rain8 system -- I'm installing a drip-irrigation system, and wanted some basic automation controls, and for the application, it seemed like a rain8 was overkill.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

BSR --> just letting you know that your design helped me out, too!

I've been struggling with whether to purchase a rain8 system -- I'm installing a drip-irrigation system, and wanted some basic automation controls, and for the application, it seemed like a rain8 was overkill.

Glad it helped you out. There are many ways and methods to implement something like this. Each one has its pros and cons. I just try to convey as much info as possible so people can make their own decisions for their particular needs, priorities, and budgets.

 

[murphy]

As the title of the post was "Poor Mans" garden sprinkler, I can toss an idea in
.......

The valve has been a very reliable and very cheap solution for me at least

I think, I will go with the valve being sold at Ace Hardware. Or later, I can go to either Home Depot or Lowes and ask about it.

For my earlier question which I think, I don't have an answer yet. Do I need to buy a card or something for the ELK M1 side? Or can I hook it up directly to the M1 input holes like how I connected my window sensors, motion sensors and so on? Then just create a rule for it.

Thanks,

Neil

This are 2 different solutions:

#1 is the usual: all the wateringvalves at Lowes and HomeDepot etc are for 24 V AC, each valvecoil draws around 170 mA when activated. And each irrigation valve is between $10 and $15. And you need a switch or a relais-contact for each valve. In the ELK M1 there is one relay integrated (output 3) which is normaly already used for alarm purposes. The other outputs of an ELK-M1 are voltage outputs only. They deliver a maximum current of 50 mA, enough to light a LED or for activating a small relay. You can buy fitting relais at ELK too, for special reasons I'm using the "924"rls, but they are a little more expensive. If you are expanding your system with some relays from RadioShack or with an extension board like the ELK-M1XOVR (8 rls, + 8 voltage outputs) depends what are your goals: only 2 or 3 watervalves or much more ... tell us.

#2 is a good idea from JohnWPD: using parts from washingmashines can save a lot of money. They are reliable and usualy activated with 115 V AC. So you don't even need a transformer for the 24 VAC. And if you are not using a manual switch (or only for testing and overriding the automatic control) you need a rls-contact (see solution #1) - or any X10-module. An strong apliance module is not necessary, any lamp-module without the diming option (that means the cheapest) can switch a small washing-maschine valve. In case of using X10-modules they need control from the ELK when it will becom very comfortable. That happens by an interface as the TW523 ($25 ca). Or you can also control the X10-stuff by any dumb timer. There are some for the X10-system.

So ... your water-control-system depends of .... how many irrigation valves are you planning? ... and what control-stuff you have already ? .... and how much money you want to invest for this project .. ;-)

It is difficult, giving you an advise without your plans and your already present hardware.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

One other thing I forgot to mention with my setup that I like is I can use a palmpad remote to activate the sprinklers. This may seem like a small feature, but it is really handy when you have a lot of drip sprinklers to repair (after your dog decided to destroy them). You can find the leak and quickly turn the system back off (reduces the puddle of water you have to then get rid of), fix the system, then test it all without having to leave the area.

I also like to have a button which activates my front sprinklers below my front door camera on my HA system. Now, whenever I see a person walking their dog on my grass, well you can do the math!

If you are using valves using 120 VAC just be very carefull how you run and terminate the wiring as it will most likely be outdoors, possibly next to water. This is another advantage of using low soleniods/valves.

One other thing worth mentioning. I have a "permanent" in ground system, thus I have an anti-siphon valve BEFORE my sprinkler valves. This is a code standard for in-ground systems so no water from the ground can backfeed into your home's water supply. I'm not sure how this would apply to temporary systems.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Actually, I'm having a hard time finding a 24vac adapter. My friend told me that I need to buy a step-down or transformer to convert my 110ac to 24vac. Does Radio Shack sell it?

Please help.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

4. You should only turn one valve on at a time or else you may exceed the fuse rating and AC adapter's capability.

What should be changed on the design because I want 2 valves to run at the same time?

Thanks,

Neil

 

[tech-home]

Neil,

Elk-TRG2440

Radio Shack should sell something like that also.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Neil,

Elk-TRG2440

Radio Shack should sell something like that also.

Great!!! Safemart sells it.

http://www.safemart.com/index.asp?PageActi...amp;ProdID=5947

So using a single Elk-TRG2440, what is the maximum number of valve I should turn on? I remember, the inline fuse recommended by BSR is 1amp. I would like to turn on at least 2 at the same time.

I will also drop by at Radio Shack tomorrow and ask about 24v AC transformer.

Thanks,

Neil

 

[murphy]

So using a single Elk-TRG2440, what is the maximum number of valve I should turn on? I remember, the inline fuse recommended by BSR is 1amp. I would like to turn on at least 2 at the same time.

I will also drop by at Radio Shack tomorrow and ask about 24v AC transformer.

One valve is using around 0.17 Amp. The ELK-transformer delivers max 1.6 Amp. If you put a 1 Amp fuse inline -which is reasonable- you can operate 5 normal irrigationvalves at the same time. Not only 2.

You can also buy at Radioshack a transformer

part number for
273-1512 $ 10.49 which delivers 25.2 V and max 2 A or
273-1366 $ 6.29 which delivers 25.2 V and max 0,45 A (which is enough for 2 irrigation valves)
and also relays
275-233 $ 2.99 each (12V / 1050 Ohm) which are working on ELK voltage outlets.

But in your case I wouldn't do this, altough it seemes a little cheaper at the first glance. The Radioshack-solution requires a lot of additional DIY-work.

With ELK components everything is ready. All you had to do is wire the components. That's enough work for you.

 

[politics123]

So using a single Elk-TRG2440, what is the maximum number of valve I should turn on? I remember, the inline fuse recommended by BSR is 1amp. I would like to turn on at least 2 at the same time.

I will also drop by at Radio Shack tomorrow and ask about 24v AC transformer.

One valve is using around 0.17 Amp. The ELK-transformer delivers max 1.6 Amp. If you put a 1 Amp fuse inline -which is reasonable- you can operate 5 normal irrigationvalves at the same time. Not only 2.

You can also buy at Radioshack a transformer

part number for
273-1512 $ 10.49 which delivers 25.2 V and max 2 A or
273-1366 $ 6.29 which delivers 25.2 V and max 0,45 A (which is enough for 2 irrigation valves)
and also relays
275-233 $ 2.99 each (12V / 1050 Ohm) which are working on ELK voltage outlets.

But in your case I wouldn't do this, altough it seemes a little cheaper at the first glance. The Radioshack-solution requires a lot of additional DIY-work.

With ELK components everything is ready. All you had to do is wire the components. That's enough work for you.

I'm assuming the 1 AMP fuse is to prevent damage to the power supply? So if you use a 2A power-supply, a 2A fuse is okay?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Well, I suggested a one amp fuse for a few reasons (also realize I take a very cautious approach to my suggestions as you really never get a "full" picture of what someone will do with their system):

I have two old traditional type sprinkler controllers and they both had one amp fuses in them (of course a more conservative approach would be to put an even smaller fuse in. Again, a lot depends on the wiring limit/capacity of your cable that you will be using).

I did not know the "exact" wiring gauge that would be used, the more valves the more current drawn.

I did not know how much water pressure existed in the home, if it is small, then only one valve should be run, especially when using spray type (and a large number) of sprinkler heads.

I am getting more current draw on my sprinkler valves then murphy. I broke apart the fuse and measured the draw with my meter and I'm getting around 257 milliamps (over a quarter of an amp). I did this measurement (pic below) with two different valves and got the same number each time. The current draw is probably dependent on the model/type of valves used so again, I took a conservative approach of saying only operate one valve at a time.

As far as the fuse purpose it protects more than just the power supply. Notice I said to place the fuse close to the power source. This is so it will protect the wiring running through the home as well (and of course any down stream components). Say your wiring experienced a short in its run. Without a fuse ALL of the power supply's potential current could be sinking itself to that short, possibly damaging the wiring while doing so.

Now, of course knowing exact scenarios of what gauge wiring will be used, the exact current draw of your solenoids/valves (probably obtained from the instruction manual), etc... one can then specify methdology for these particular applications.

 

[RichTJ99]

Neil,

Elk-TRG2440

Radio Shack should sell something like that also.

Great!!! Safemart sells it.

http://www.safemart.com/index.asp?PageActi...amp;ProdID=5947

So using a single Elk-TRG2440, what is the maximum number of valve I should turn on? I remember, the inline fuse recommended by BSR is 1amp. I would like to turn on at least 2 at the same time.

I will also drop by at Radio Shack tomorrow and ask about 24v AC transformer.

Thanks,

Neil

So does the wire from the valve, get wired into the transformer, then plugged into the X10 Appliance module which is then plugged into the wall?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Neil,

Elk-TRG2440

Radio Shack should sell something like that also.

Great!!! Safemart sells it.

http://www.safemart.com/index.asp?PageActi...amp;ProdID=5947

So using a single Elk-TRG2440, what is the maximum number of valve I should turn on? I remember, the inline fuse recommended by BSR is 1amp. I would like to turn on at least 2 at the same time.

I will also drop by at Radio Shack tomorrow and ask about 24v AC transformer.

Thanks,

Neil

So does the wire from the valve, get wired into the transformer, then plugged into the X10 Appliance module which is then plugged into the wall?

Well, we are talking about different options in this thread so I'm not sure in your scenario.

If you want to have just one control (probably for turning on one valve) AND want X-10 commands to do it, you can plug the 24 VAC transformer/wall wart into an appliance module, then run the wiring from the wall wart to the valve(s) (remember the inline fuse).

If you need multiple controls (i.e. want to control multiple valves say at different times) you can of course use the above system multiple times (i.e. get multiple wall warts and appliance modules) or use the schematic I posted for Vaughn above which uses relays to control the valves.

Did this make any sense? If not, please let me know!

Be aware that you can use any controller to turn relays on and off, (Ocelot with RLY8XA unit, Rain-8, etc...). In other words it doesn't have to be an Elk.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

BraveSirRobbin,

I'm sticking with your design using the ELK Relay, 1amp fuse, 24vac. But can you help me again. I would like to run 2 valves at the same time. I remember, you mentioned somewhere that I should not open 2 valves at the same time because it might ruin the adapter or explode the fuse.

Here is some information I gathered about the sprinkler valve I want to buy. I grabbed it from OrbitOnline's model 57100 pdf manual/specification.

However, I don't understand the numbers.

Inrush volt-amps
@ 24 VAC = 8.4 VA

Inrush current
@ 24 VAC = 0.35 AMPS

Holding volt-amps
@ 24 VAC = 5.5 VA

Holding current
@ 24 VAC = 0.23 AMPS

Can you please let me know what needs to be modified on your drawing the other day so that I can run 2 valves at the same time?


Thanks,

Neil

 

[mustangcoupe]

BraveSirRobbin,

I'm sticking with your design using the ELK Relay, 1amp fuse, 24vac. But can you help me again. I would like to run 2 valves at the same time. I remember, you mentioned somewhere that I should not open 2 valves at the same time because it might ruin the adapter or explode the fuse.

Here is some information I gathered about the sprinkler valve I want to buy. I grabbed it from OrbitOnline's model 57100 pdf manual/specification.

However, I don't understand the numbers.

Inrush volt-amps
@ 24 VAC = 8.4 VA

Inrush current
@ 24 VAC = 0.35 AMPS

Holding volt-amps
@ 24 VAC = 5.5 VA

Holding current
@ 24 VAC = 0.23 AMPS

Can you please let me know what needs to be modified on your drawing the other day so that I can run 2 valves at the same time?


Thanks,

Neil

Neil,

With the information from above,

Inrush current
@ 24 VAC = 0.35 AMPS

Holding current
@ 24 VAC = 0.23 AMPS


I beleive you should beable to open both valves at once. even the inrush (2 * .35 = .7 amps) and I would guess you wouldnt open them exactly at the smae second..... you shouldnt have a problem. and holding current for two of them running will be just under 1/2 amps....