Powerline Interface Module Pulseworx vs HAI

[bjr72]

Is there any good reason to spend 2X the money on a Pulseworx powerline interface module vs the cheaper HAI version?

Are they the same thing, minus the extra LED status?

I need an extra PIM for programming only via Upstart... getting tired of running to the basement with the laptop.

Brian

 

[Basildane]

Funny you posted this right now.
I currently have some pulseworx on order so I'll have spares.
I have an HAI pim for my HAI system - it will not work in my house. About 50% of the devices cannot communicate.
Plug in a pulseworx, and all devices are 100%.

We've replaced the HAI PIM 3 times, all the replacements do the same thing.
My unverified gut feeling is that the HAI model is less sensitive / less powerful.

Unfortunately, my PCS pim died last week, so now I am in "limp mode" using my HAI pim until a replacement comes. So I have to go around the house at night and double check devices are off for the night...

And yes, it is real handy to have a second attached to your workstation for UPB programming and troubleshooting.

 

[Mr Spock]

Basildane, I'm curious what type & brand of UPB devices do you have? Gen 1 or 2?

 

[Basildane]

It is all Gen 2 HAI UPB devices. They are new and still under warranty.
I have a long thread on my troubles from last year, in the forum somewhere.
I spent months trying to troubleshoot my problems, only by chance I dropped in a PCS Pim and my problems disappeared. For the most part.

Also, I worked with HAI techs, sent them units for testing as requested...
They didn't have anything to offer.

 

[bjr72]

Funny you posted this right now.
I currently have some pulseworx on order so I'll have spares.
I have an HAI pim for my HAI system - it will not work in my house. About 50% of the devices cannot communicate.
Plug in a pulseworx, and all devices are 100%.

We've replaced the HAI PIM 3 times, all the replacements do the same thing.
My unverified gut feeling is that the HAI model is less sensitive / less powerful.

Unfortunately, my PCS pim died last week, so now I am in "limp mode" using my HAI pim until a replacement comes. So I have to go around the house at night and double check devices are off for the night...

And yes, it is real handy to have a second attached to your workstation for UPB programming and troubleshooting.

I have the phase buffer/conditioner installed, or whatever you call it..... if that makes any difference, I don't know. But I've never experienced any problems with my HAI PIM unit. I also have all my zones installed with the pull up resistors neatly soldered in place and corresponding setting in the Omni to "resistors = YES" Again, if that makes the system more stable, I have no idea.

Where did you purchase your Pulsworx PIM and for how much? They look awfully similar. I'm thinking HAI just licenced the unit from Pulseworx, got a discount, and put their name on it, minus the extra LED.

 

[Basildane]

I have an HAI UPB coupler installed too. Also a Leviton surge suppressor installed in the panel. Doesn't seem to help stop the spikes however. We've had 4 big ones (that I've seen with my own eyes) in the past 2 weeks.

My usual supplier is Worthington Distribution for HAI stuff. I'm not sure it is appropriate to mention dealer pricing in this forum, however.

 

[bjr72]

I have an HAI UPB coupler installed too. Also a Leviton surge suppressor installed in the panel. Doesn't seem to help stop the spikes however. We've had 4 big ones (that I've seen with my own eyes) in the past 2 weeks.

My usual supplier is Worthington Distribution for HAI stuff. I'm not sure it is appropriate to mention dealer pricing in this forum, however.

Have you seen your line voltage on an oscilloscope?

I have a 3000 watt SMART-UPS uninterruptable power supply that I use for everything sensitive like computers, plasma T.V., and other electronics.... however my PIM is not connected to it.... I don't think the UPB signals can travel over the power conditioning (i.e. transformers) inside the unit. Never tried it.

My APS unit is built like a tank for servers and computers (weight is over 100lbs)

What you need is an industrial surge supressor for the line voltage coming into to your home BEFORE the main breaker panel. Expensive, but it may show up at auctions or Ebay if you look. I'd find that totally annoying burning up so many PIMS.

 

[bjr72]

I have an HAI UPB coupler installed too. Also a Leviton surge suppressor installed in the panel. Doesn't seem to help stop the spikes however. We've had 4 big ones (that I've seen with my own eyes) in the past 2 weeks.

My usual supplier is Worthington Distribution for HAI stuff. I'm not sure it is appropriate to mention dealer pricing in this forum, however.

I don't know what model surge suppressor you have... but from my 6 years experience with uninterruptable power supplies, I can tell you that you get what you pay for. My UPS costs over $1300.
If you paid less than $200 for a Leviton service entrance suppressor, you ain't getting anything more than a few passive components inside. I'd crank that puppy open to see just what is in there. True power conditioning is hard to find in botton of the barrel electronics stores.

 

[bjr72]

Still, anyone know the real difference between a Pulseworx PIM and an HAI PIM?

I may have to answer my own question by buying a Pulseworx and opening it up and doing a comparison. My guess is that I'll see the same integrated chip inside.

 

[Basildane]

Lost another 8 button house controller last night. That's 5 of those dead this year alone.

 

[Basildane]

The voltage level varies from 118.5v to 124v during an average day.
I don't have equipment for recording spike information. Spikes may happen once a day (based on the damage I see and lights suddenly flashing like a camera flash).

I already have (another) service ticket in with the power company to come out and monitor it.
About 5 years ago we had a similar event that they witnessed. They paid for all the damaged hardware that time.

This is annoying though. Its worse reliability than back in the old days with x10.

 

[tmbrown97]

Before I got into automation, I did have a house with lots of power strikes - there I was able to call the utility and they put a surge suppressor in between the meter and the panel... and charged me $5/month for it. I never had another spike-related issue in that house again (5 years) - and the install couldn't have been easier. Would be worth looking into something like that even.

 

[Basildane]

The power company is at my house today installing test equipment. I'll be checking into that idea, thanks.

 

[ggdowski]

Basildane. If it helps you are not alone.
I have been going through the same thing. I am on my second PIM.
When that PIM is in the kitchen on my PC using Upstart, I can find just about everything.

When that PIM is reset and put back on my OMNI II in the basement it only find about 1/2 of the devices. HAI support has not been very helpful. I have a phase coupler. The only thing I can think of is that the OMNI box is actually more distant from my breaker box than the PC in my Kitchen. So I suspect that signal is to weak coming out of the HAI PIM units. I may try the other PIM.

 

[tmbrown97]

ggdowski - I had a similar issue; my PIM anywhere else in the house was fine, but in the closet where it "lives" it didn't have as strong of a signal. One one hand, it's quite distant on one phase; on the other - the bigger issue I noticed was that on the same circuit, very close to where the PIM was, was another large noise generator.

Where your omni is, do you have a battery backup or a lot of wall warts? My specific culprits were both an APC UPS and a DirecTV power injector. By placing those behind a noise filter it cleared up all my problems. If you have an equipment rack it'd be wise to make sure it's filtered; and always with UPS's.

Either way you have some real signal issues if you're not seeing all your devices most, if not all of the time. I use Simply Automated switches, and they're very helpful. If you want to get some community support, start your own thread and we'll share what we know.