Price Sanity Check

[broconne]

I just got the estimate for pre-wiring a house for HA.

I am sure that numbers vary all over the country, but this is what I was given. Let me know if any of these seem out of whack.

5.1 Pre-Wire Per Room: $535
Audio Pre-Wire Per Room (16/4 + Cat5): $215
Smoke Pre-Wire (22/4): $40
Pre-Wire for Omnistat (2 Cat5 & 22/4): $190
Combo Jack (2 Cat5 & 2 Coax): $215
Window/Door Contact (22/2): $40
Glass Break/CO/Heat/Occupancy/Motion/Water/Smoke Pre-Wire (22/4): $40
Touch Screen Pre-Wire (3 Cat5 & 18/2) : $190
ALC/OnQ Pre-Wire: (Cat5): $60
Temp/Humidity Pre-Wire (Cat5) $60
Drape/Blind Pre-Wire (Cat5 & 12/2): $140
Security Keypad Pre-Wire (Cat5 & 18/4): $125
Pipe Chase (2 inch PVC): $130
Camera Pre-Wire (RG69 & Cat 5 & 18/2): $210

Do any of these seem really out of whack? For anything that costs more than $130 - I will just have to ask for a pipe chase instead I guess...

 

[AceCannon]

I had two bids that were itemized like this. Didn't like it. For my house, it was close to $10,000 (maybe more) to prewire and terminate everything I specified.

So I kept interviewing people and ended up hiring a couple guys who did the work by the hour instead of the run. Bought 10 boxes of cat5e (which was not quite enough), a bunch of 16/4 and 14/2 speaker wire, and 1000ft of RG6 all from Monoprice. The installers provided 22/4 for security.

I saved about $4500 - 5000 going this route. (They charged $50 / hour for each guy, one guy's bill was $1600 and the other was $1700, I believe. That included some extra wire I needed.) However, I spent quite a few hours myself running cat5e to lightswitch locations. AND I have yet to terminate anything. My plan is to do this myself gradually as time permits. In retrospect, I am glad I hired these two guys to do it by the hour. YMMV, of course.

I just got the estimate for pre-wiring a house for HA.

I am sure that numbers vary all over the country, but this is what I was given. Let me know if any of these seem out of whack.

5.1 Pre-Wire Per Room: $535
Audio Pre-Wire Per Room (16/4 + Cat5): $215
Smoke Pre-Wire (22/4): $40
Pre-Wire for Omnistat (2 Cat5 & 22/4): $190
Combo Jack (2 Cat5 & 2 Coax): $215
Window/Door Contact (22/2): $40
Glass Break/CO/Heat/Occupancy/Motion/Water/Smoke Pre-Wire (22/4): $40
Touch Screen Pre-Wire (3 Cat5 & 18/2) : $190
ALC/OnQ Pre-Wire: (Cat5): $60
Temp/Humidity Pre-Wire (Cat5) $60
Drape/Blind Pre-Wire (Cat5 & 12/2): $140
Security Keypad Pre-Wire (Cat5 & 18/4): $125
Pipe Chase (2 inch PVC): $130
Camera Pre-Wire (RG69 & Cat 5 & 18/2): $210

Do any of these seem really out of whack? For anything that costs more than $130 - I will just have to ask for a pipe chase instead I guess...

 

[broconne]

I had two bids that were itemized like this. Didn't like it. For my house, it was close to $10,000 (maybe more) to prewire and terminate everything I specified.

So I kept interviewing people and ended up hiring a couple guys who did the work by the hour instead of the run. Bought 10 boxes of cat5e (which was not quite enough), a bunch of 16/4 and 14/2 speaker wire, and 1000ft of RG6 all from Monoprice. The installers provided 22/4 for security.

I saved about $4500 - 5000 going this route. (They charged $50 / hour for each guy, one guy's bill was $1600 and the other was $1700, I believe. That included some extra wire I needed.) However, I spent quite a few hours myself running cat5e to lightswitch locations. AND I have yet to terminate anything. My plan is to do this myself gradually as time permits. In retrospect, I am glad I hired these two guys to do it by the hour. YMMV, of course.

I just got the estimate for pre-wiring a house for HA.

I am sure that numbers vary all over the country, but this is what I was given. Let me know if any of these seem out of whack.

5.1 Pre-Wire Per Room: $535
Audio Pre-Wire Per Room (16/4 + Cat5): $215
Smoke Pre-Wire (22/4): $40
Pre-Wire for Omnistat (2 Cat5 & 22/4): $190
Combo Jack (2 Cat5 & 2 Coax): $215
Window/Door Contact (22/2): $40
Glass Break/CO/Heat/Occupancy/Motion/Water/Smoke Pre-Wire (22/4): $40
Touch Screen Pre-Wire (3 Cat5 & 18/2) : $190
ALC/OnQ Pre-Wire: (Cat5): $60
Temp/Humidity Pre-Wire (Cat5) $60
Drape/Blind Pre-Wire (Cat5 & 12/2): $140
Security Keypad Pre-Wire (Cat5 & 18/4): $125
Pipe Chase (2 inch PVC): $130
Camera Pre-Wire (RG69 & Cat 5 & 18/2): $210

Do any of these seem really out of whack? For anything that costs more than $130 - I will just have to ask for a pipe chase instead I guess...

This is a semi-custom builder - with only one LV sub. Talking to the sub - basically his prices get doubled by the builder. So I am not sure finding another sub will help me any. I will have to work with the builder to lower his margins. I basically asked him to price this house out based on the wiring your home 101, I included every wire I wanted, etc. Current price for the LV is over $30,000. I will clearly need to find areas to cut. Sadly.

 

[Kevin L]

When I built my house last year, I spent about $3,000 for wiring the security - (5) keypads, (6) camera locations, all openings homerunned, (3) CO detectors (detector included), @ (20) smoke detectors (detectors included), (3) interior speakers/mikes, and an exterior speaker and strobe.

I spent about $5,000 for all structured wiring - @ (20) lighting keypads (cable incl), (13) audio keypads (cable incl), @ (20) phone and network outlets (cable and outlets incl.), (13) zones of ceiling speakers (cable incl), (6) HDMI and (6) Component Video/Audio outlets (cables NOT incl, outlets incl), 7.1 HT wiring in Family Room (cable incl), (3) touchsreen locations (cable incl), 5-LNB Sat dish (cable incl), OTA Antenna (cable incl), Broadband (cable incl).

It's a pretty big house (3700 sq ft) and I think the structured wiring guy charged time and materials. Time was $85/hr. He did an excellent job. I bought all the items not included above, like speakers, keypads, HDMI and component cable (very expensive for the 75' runs), sat dish, antenna, etc. That totalled $5,000 or so.

Hope this helps,

Kevin

 

[broconne]

When I built my house last year, I spent about $3,000 for wiring the security - (5) keypads, (6) camera locations, all openings homerunned, (3) CO detectors (detector included), @ (20) smoke detectors (detectors included), (3) interior speakers/mikes, and an exterior speaker and strobe.

I spent about $5,000 for all structured wiring - @ (20) lighting keypads (cable incl), (13) audio keypads (cable incl), @ (20) phone and network outlets (cable and outlets incl.), (13) zones of ceiling speakers (cable incl), (6) HDMI and (6) Component Video/Audio outlets (cables NOT incl, outlets incl), 7.1 HT wiring in Family Room (cable incl), (3) touchsreen locations (cable incl), 5-LNB Sat dish (cable incl), OTA Antenna (cable incl), Broadband (cable incl).

It's a pretty big house (3700 sq ft) and I think the structured wiring guy charged time and materials. Time was $85/hr. He did an excellent job. I bought all the items not included above, like speakers, keypads, HDMI and component cable (very expensive for the 75' runs), sat dish, antenna, etc. That totalled $5,000 or so.

Hope this helps,

Kevin

Thanks Kevin. That is helpful. My deal is no where near as sweet. My house is roughly the same size as yours:

I have

9 Cat5e Phone/Data
13 Combo Jacks (2 Cat5e & 2 Coax)
1 Sat Pre Wire (6 Coax + 1 ground)
21 Misc Cat5 or Coax unterminated
7 Camera Pre-Wires (Cat5,RG59,18/2)
44 Additional Security Contacts (All Doors and Windows)
19 Water detection pre-wires
14 Temperature pre-wires
9 Touch Screen Pre-Wires
31 Motion/Occupancy Pre-Wire
12 Heat/SmokeCO Pe-Wires
68 ALC/OnQ Prewires
29 Shade Window Control Pre-Wires
2 OmniStat Pre-Wires
3 Additional Secutiy Keypad Pre-Wires
2 5/1 Prewires
1 7/1 Prewires
28 Pipe Chases
18 Whole Home Audio Runs

Gets me to around $34,000

 

[mcelectric]

Where are you building?Mark

 

[Rupp]

Go wireless, it's a whole lot cheaper. Then run your own RJ6.

 

[Neurorad]

With your home design, how difficult will it be to retrofit some of the runs? Is there an unfished attic, basement, or crawl space, over any part of the home?

That really is a dream list, in my opinion. You could cut that back some, probably. 3 surround rooms? 18 Listening zones? 29 Shade controls?

Perhaps reduce the number of security zones to 8 or 9, running a few contacts in series on each zone? Also, 19 Water detection pre-wires seems like overkill.

That total is wayyyy overpriced, but it seems that if you want everything on your list, you'll have to pay what the builder is charging. Unless you want to find a different builder...not a real option, at this point.

If there is a basement, you could consider finishing it out at a later date, if that's an option. This would help to retrofit any cables that you would like, but don't want to pay for now.

The most difficult to retrofit, IMO: door and window contacts, lighting

 

[broconne]

Where are you building?Mark

Cary, NC Near Raleigh

 

[broconne]

With your home design, how difficult will it be to retrofit some of the runs? Is there an unfished attic, basement, or crawl space, over any part of the home?

Not too bad. Unfinished attic and basement. Attic is floored however, so there will have to be a 90 degree bend in almost every chase.

That really is a dream list, in my opinion. You could cut that back some, probably. 3 surround rooms? 18 Listening zones? 29 Shade controls?

Yeah - I spec'd out surround in Family, Media and Master Bedroom. I could probably drop Master Bedroom from the list.

Perhaps reduce the number of security zones to 8 or 9, running a few contacts in series on each zone? Also, 19 Water detection pre-wires seems like overkill.

Yeah, that is water detection under every sink, every toilet, and every appliance with water. Well, he is only charging me $540 to homerun all contacts.. That part seems like a bargain!

That total is wayyyy overpriced, but it seems that if you want everything on your list, you'll have to pay what the builder is charging. Unless you want to find a different builder...not a real option, at this point.

I haven't signed anything, haven't given a down payment. So, if the builder is unreasonable we can walk away.


If there is a basement, you could consider finishing it out at a later date, if that's an option. This would help to retrofit any cables that you would like, but don't want to pay for now.

The most difficult to retrofit, IMO: door and window contacts, lighting

I agree.

 

[Kevin L]

Though your list is more ambitious than mine, it's way overpriced. Is this a spot build or a development? I don't know how NC is, but in Southwest FL, builders are really cutting prices to get business. We contracted in 2006 when the market was still good. We designed and spec'd the house ourselves, then shopped for builders. We narrowed 44 builders down to 3, and gave the 3 our plans and 29 pages of specs and had them quote it. For things like cabinetry, plumbing, flooring, lighting we put in allowances to level the playing field. The 3 quotes ranged from $750K to $1M to build. Since we were confident any of the three would do a great job (they were all small, custom builders), we told them it would come down to pricing. Funny thing is, the builder that had the reputation of being the best, but most expensive, gave us the lowest bid, and got the job. I believed he saw the market was turning and figured a lower-margin job was better than no job at all. We've been in the house a year this month and couldn't be happier with the job he did.

As others have said, lighting and security is critical. I put a Centralite LiteJet in part of the house. I should have done the whole house, but costs were mounting and we cut some things. In retrospect, I should have hardwired the entire lighting system, but knew I could supplement with JetStream at a later date. In fact, I'm getting ready to order the parts soon.

Another item that would be tougher to do later is the whole-house audio. You need to wire for speakers and you need to decide the technology of your system so you can cable for the controls.

With the improvement in wireless, you can afford to skip network locations in some rooms. Even home theater is going wireless, and the technology is constantly improving. An item I shouldn't have been talked into was phone outlets (CAT 5). I didn't spec any phone outlets in most rooms since I use cordless. He said it would be foolish not to put them in. Waste of money, because I'm only using one of them for the base set. There are seven cordless handsets around the house.

I didn't put in any water detection. I might later, but the entire house is tile, and with Manabloc plumbing system, there are less potential failure points.

I didn't do any shades. That was an easy cost to eliminate since I didn't think cost/benefit ratio made sense. My stats with wiring were all included with the HVAC contractor.

Good luck, and remember - everything's negotiable. Prices given by builders aren't carved in stone. If they are, maybe it's not the right builder.

Kevin

 

[charliebarns]

We're building now and we're with a custom builder. In pricing out the LV installation they wanted 50K to wire the house (6500sq/ft). No way am I paying that much. I ended up doing all the LV myself, 120 RG6 drops, 150 CAT6, 24 CCTV, 12 touchscreen locations, 15 zones of audio, 20 IR, 15 Tele, 30 resigard drops, 2 2" conduits to the attic, 8 motion, 8 glass break, 6 external doors, 2 sirens, 1 strobe, 4 pressure pads, 40 windows and a bunch of 18/2 drops to various locations. I've spent around 7K in wiring and 1 month installing it. Some of these builders are nuts when it comes to quoting jobs.

CB

 

[broconne]

We're building now and we're with a custom builder. In pricing out the LV installation they wanted 50K to wire the house (6500sq/ft). No way am I paying that much. I ended up doing all the LV myself, 120 RG6 drops, 150 CAT6, 24 CCTV, 12 touchscreen locations, 15 zones of audio, 20 IR, 15 Tele, 30 resigard drops, 2 2" conduits to the attic, 8 motion, 8 glass break, 6 external doors, 2 sirens, 1 strobe, 4 pressure pads, 40 windows and a bunch of 18/2 drops to various locations. I've spent around 7K in wiring and 1 month installing it. Some of these builders are nuts when it comes to quoting jobs.

CB

How did you get 1 month to do your wiring? I was under the impression after the roof went up there wasn't really all THAT much time before sheet rock went up. I figured at most 2 weeks.

 

[broconne]

Though your list is more ambitious than mine, it's way overpriced. Is this a spot build or a development?

Development Semi-Custom home.

I don't know how NC is, but in Southwest FL, builders are really cutting prices to get business.

They are taking $75,000 off the base price of the home. My guess is they are breaking even on base price and trying to profit on the options.

We contracted in 2006 when the market was still good. We designed and spec'd the house ourselves, then shopped for builders. We narrowed 44 builders down to 3, and gave the 3 our plans and 29 pages of specs and had them quote it. For things like cabinetry, plumbing, flooring, lighting we put in allowances to level the playing field. The 3 quotes ranged from $750K to $1M to build. Since we were confident any of the three would do a great job (they were all small, custom builders), we told them it would come down to pricing. Funny thing is, the builder that had the reputation of being the best, but most expensive, gave us the lowest bid, and got the job. I believed he saw the market was turning and figured a lower-margin job was better than no job at all. We've been in the house a year this month and couldn't be happier with the job he did.

This is a development, so I only have one builder to work with. We are very happy with his work, talked to some neighbors who built houses there who are also very happy. We love the location, we like the style of all the houses, etc. We could shop around - but at this point - not sure the significant other would be happy if I wanted to pull out of here because of wiring.

As others have said, lighting and security is critical. I put a Centralite LiteJet in part of the house. I should have done the whole house, but costs were mounting and we cut some things. In retrospect, I should have hardwired the entire lighting system, but knew I could supplement with JetStream at a later date. In fact, I'm getting ready to order the parts soon.

I haven't even found out what it would cost yet to homerun the HV for lights so I have flexibility.. That should be a nice surprise.

Another item that would be tougher to do later is the whole-house audio. You need to wire for speakers and you need to decide the technology of your system so you can cable for the controls.

Yeah, I cut out the secondary bedrooms from my list. I am finding it hard to cut other rooms

With the improvement in wireless, you can afford to skip network locations in some rooms. Even home theater is going wireless, and the technology is constantly improving. An item I shouldn't have been talked into was phone outlets (CAT 5). I didn't spec any phone outlets in most rooms since I use cordless. He said it would be foolish not to put them in. Waste of money, because I'm only using one of them for the base set. There are seven cordless handsets around the house.

At this point, I respec'd, at least on my spreadsheet, and dropped a bunch of runs and added pipe chases. I am down to $21k.

I didn't put in any water detection. I might later, but the entire house is tile, and with Manabloc plumbing system, there are less potential failure points.

Right now, I have about $400 spec'd out for water detection.

I didn't do any shades. That was an easy cost to eliminate since I didn't think cost/benefit ratio made sense. My stats with wiring were all included with the HVAC contractor.

Yeah, dropping shades is the first thing to go. I might keep them in the MBR.

Good luck, and remember - everything's negotiable. Prices given by builders aren't carved in stone. If they are, maybe it's not the right builder.

I hope so... My first plan is to tell the LV guy.. Hey you are charging $40 per 22/4 and $60 per Cat5. If I buy the cat5, I see no reason you can't do that at $40 a run. That would knock a few thousand right there.

 

[broconne]

Been "Re-Specing"/Triming Down here:

Pipe Chases (47): $6,110
Surround Sound Pre-Wire (2): $1125
ALC/OnQ (66): $3980
CO Detector (3): $120
Door contacts (25): $920
Drapes/Blinds (6): $840
Gas Detector (1): $40
Glass Break Pre-Wire (5): $200
Occupancy/Motion Pre-Wire (25): $1000
Smoke Pre-Wire (3) $120
Temp/Humidity (13): $780
Whole Home Audio (12): $2580
Window Contacts (39): $760

plus misc - Down to $21,000. Still WAY over budget for me.
I might ask about buying all materials and asking him to just charge $40 per run. That should still be a serious profit for the LV guy.