problem adding M1KP

B

banderson28

New Member
Please Help! I am trying to add an M1KP to my system and am having trouble enrolling it.

I have three existing keypads and am trying to add a fourth. My existing keypads are currently addressed 1, 3, and 4. I'm trying to add this one using address 2. (I have tried 5 and 6 as well).

The new keypad powers up and says "ELK M1 Control" on the first line. The second line has what I think is my system's serial number (so I guess it somehow sees that on the rs485 network? - but won't communicate back?). Following the serial number, it has ".DE". After this, it soon goes to "KP Addr->2" and "Lost Comm."

The new location is at the end of the bus, so I moved the termination jumper to the new location from the previous keypad. I also tried moving a working keypad to this new location and putting the new one earlier on the bus (without a termination jumper), but still doesn't work.

I even tried deleting all 3 existing keypads in RP and then tried to re-enroll them and it only ever sees the 3 original keypads (1, 3, and 4). I've tried the enrollment function both via RP and via existing keypads.
 
Another thing I tried was to set the new keypad to address 4 and put it in the same location with the same jumper setting (end of line resistor jumper on) as the original keypad with address 4. Ran Enroll again and it doesn't see a keypad at 4 any longer.
 
No -- the only thing I have on the bus are the existing 3 keypads. The only other two extras that I have are the XEP and an M1RB, but of course these are not bus devices.
 
How is your 485 bus wired? Start at the beginning and work down the line to the very end (assuming the control is the beginning). Which devices are terminated?

You should only have two termination jumpers installed at the very ends of the 485 data bus.

Was the new KP purchased as "new"?
 
Two legs to the bus - one has one keypad that has the termination jumper set. The other has two keypads with the second one in the chain having the jumper set. I put this new one at the end, so I removed the jumper from the second one and put it on my "new" one (which would be the third and final one in the chain if I could get it to work). I have tried the new keypad in the same location as that second one - with the jumper set - and even set the new one to the same address as that second one with no success.

The "new" keypad was purchase Used on ebay. Seller says it worked fine when they uninstalled it. I'm starting to assume something has gone bad with it though...
 
Try installing it straight to the panel as a single leg, or remove all the 485 field wiring from the panel and install a single KP on the panel. Throw a bootstrap program in the panel and try enrolling that single keypad.
 
Elk tech support gave me the same suggestion as DELInstallations did. Doing it that way, the keypad worked.

But I am still confused and worried that I'll have trouble with it. To get the M1KP to stay working, I had to rewire so that it was the device "closest" to the M1 Gold panel electrically... If this was the first thing on the bus, it works. If it is the second (of three), it doesn't work, and if it is the last, (with termination jumper in) it doesn't work.

I re-wired so that it was the first thing and it works.

I have two M1KP2's and now have two M1KP's operational. The other M1KP that I have operational works no matter where I put it on the bus. One difference I noticed is that my original one is hardware version 0.10 and the "new" one is 0.7. Could there be a hardware difference where the 0.7 doesn't tolerate the increased distance as well? I think I read somewhere that there is a 1000 feet limit and I'm confident that I'm not near that.

I have one more M1KP (for a total of 5 keypads) that I was planning on installing in an auxillary building that I have. It would be a longer distance run -- probably 200 feet. I don't want to run wire out there if this isn't going to work! By the way, of course I tried this "extra" M1KP (hardware version 0.7) all over my bus and it behaves exactly the same as the other version 0.7... only works when it is the "closest" to the M1.
 
Distance is not a factor,as I doubt you're even near the 4000' max, nor is the firmware at this point, as the unit works.

I would start investigating your wiring for opens or shorts on the 485, assuming you're running at least 6 conductors to the KP's. 485 will work without termination, so I would suspect the cabling.

Have you taken a meter to Data A+B on the cable yet with the unit attached? Maybe inspect the pigtail on the keypad or circuit board, however I'm not convinced as it works standalone.
 
If everything is wired correctly and the keypad works close to the M1, but not at a greater distance, the RS-485 driver in the keypad may have some damage.

Measure the resistance across the A and B RS485 lines on the keypad unconnected and unterminated. There should be a high resistance. If the driver is damaged, you may read less than 1000 ohms.
 
I finally got time to work on this again this evening. I measured the resistance across A and B like you suggested and it is 44,000 ohms. I also measured across each leg of the rs485 bus with the lines unhooked at the M1 and got about 127 ohm on both legs. When both were hooked hooked up (and M1 still powered off), I measured about 64 ohms across the A and B terminals on the M1, which I think is correct?
 
I battled with a similar issue last weekend. I wired and re-wired everything twice and still didnt fix it.

I think my thread might be over in the Home Security forum, but the same idea....I have 2 things on the databus: M1KP and a zone expander. I wanted the KP1 to be the "end" of the chain, so it was terminated then connected to the A1/B1 coming off the zone expander, with the A/B from the zone expander connected back to the M1 board. No matter what I did I was getting "Lost Comm" on the KP1. Its a used KP1, but with only the keypad connected to the bus everything worked fine. I also made sure I had the zone expander jumpered correctly ("Terminate RS385 bus" jumpered to No), the jumper was installed on the keypad and JP3 on the main board.

The fix was to make the KP1 the *first* item on the databus, remove the terminating jumper and set the zone expander to terminate the bus. I suppose it could be a weak RS485 driver issue, but Im not so sure. I tried a used KP2 in the same location and had the same issue. Chances of 2 keypads with weak drivers? I dunno. But I also dont have much explanation as to why making it first in line fixes the issue. If both the KP1 and KP2 have weak drivers, then I wont be able to use either of them in the rest of the system (since they both cant be the first items on the bus). Hopefully this weekend Ill have some time to mess with it again and see if both keypads do work at the same time,
 
Just an FYI, and probably not a surprise, this was all my fault :)

I was reading into the manual a little too much vs stepping back and having some common sense.

The manual shows KEYPADS as having the Data A/B tied to A1/B1 and then fed back down to the main panel. I said OK, Ill set my keypad that way.....but not my zone expander.

So duh, since the zone expander had no way to get the data across the A1/B1 lines, to feed the next device (M1KP), of course the M1KP wasnt connected!!!

I figured this all out today when I went to add an XSP and sure enough "no comm with M1". Some face palming later, everything is up and running.
 
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