Problem with a keypad's beep tone

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Senior Member
Has anyone encountered the following problem?

If the keypad's beep tone is set to a level of 5 or greater, the sound it creates can be either:

1. severely attentuated
2. silent
3. just right (rarely)

It works fine below a level of 5. I have two new M1KP keypads and only one behaves this way.

I don't think it has anything to do with a miswired keypad (it works fine otherwise) and I suspect its speaker, or speaker-driver circuitry, can't produce high-pitched tones.

I want to be sure it is defective before returning it for a replacement ... oh, and what's the procedure for that? Back to the supplier or directly to ELK?
 
Measure the +12 VDC voltage at the keypad that is a problem after you press a key. A long wire run on CAT5 wire with the backlights on could drop the keypad voltage to a point that it is voltage starved.
 
Details of the problem
The very first keypress sounds weak or silent. However, it sounds fine if you press a key repeatedly (less than one second between each keypress). If you pause for 3 seconds or more, the first keypress will be weak.

It seems like the keypad is normally in a "powered-down-state" and the first keypress wakes it up but not fast enough to properly generate the beep tone (beep level 6 or higher only). Once it is awake, it can properly generate the tones although sometimes a tone sounds like two beeps have overlapped (if you press the keys a little too fast). If you wait longer than 3 seconds, the keypad reverts to its "powered-down-state" and the next keypress will be weak.

Here's what I tried so far:

Measured the voltage
I followed your suggestion and measured the voltage (at the keypad's terminal block) and it remained steady at 13.72V to 13.73V while buttons were pressed. I didn't notice any voltage fluctuation when the keypad tone sounded attentuated. FWIW, the two keypads are connected to a Databus Hub via two 30' runs of CAT6 cable.

Tried another keypad
Using a spare keypad (brand new; slated for the master bedroom), I set it to address #2 and replaced the allegedly defective keypad. The new keypad produced the same weak keypad tones (uh-oh). So the problem is not with the keypad but must lie elsewhere.

Rebuilt the keypad's power connections
I re-built the keypad's power connections. I ensured the keypad's wires and the CAT6 cable's wires make good contact within the "B" connectors. Unfortunately, that did not resolve the problem.

Swapped ports in the DataBus Hub
I plugged keypad #2 into the first port of the Databus Hub and keypad #1 into the second port. The terminator plug remained in the third port. Keypad #2 continued to generate weak tones.

Next step:
The next step is to re-build the cable's data connections at the keypad end and replace the RJ-45 plug at the Databus Hub end.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
 
You may want to try creating a new cable, even if it wont be used and plug it in locally by the Elk. If all works well there, then you can attribute the issue to something in the wire between the databus hub and the keypad.

I believe I had a similar issue (Well similar in that the cable was the culprit, I don't remember the details, and it was not a keypad though) and that did wind up being the culprit for me.

This might not be the answer you are looking for (as it may be painful to replace that run). If this does appear to point in that direction you may want to test the cable as well. If only one conductor is troublesome, I believe there are two that are not used and you can swap out conductors to avoid rerunning the cable.
 
Details of the problem
The very first keypress sounds weak or silent. However, it sounds fine if you press a key repeatedly (less than one second between each keypress). If you pause for 3 seconds or more, the first keypress will be weak.

It seems like the keypad is normally in a "powered-down-state" and the first keypress wakes it up but not fast enough to properly generate the beep tone (beep level 6 or higher only). Once it is awake, it can properly generate the tones although sometimes a tone sounds like two beeps have overlapped (if you press the keys a little too fast). If you wait longer than 3 seconds, the keypad reverts to its "powered-down-state" and the next keypress will be weak.

Here's what I tried so far:

Measured the voltage
I followed your suggestion and measured the voltage (at the keypad's terminal block) and it remained steady at 13.72V to 13.73V while buttons were pressed. I didn't notice any voltage fluctuation when the keypad tone sounded attentuated. FWIW, the two keypads are connected to a Databus Hub via two 30' runs of CAT6 cable.

Tried another keypad
Using a spare keypad (brand new; slated for the master bedroom), I set it to address #2 and replaced the allegedly defective keypad. The new keypad produced the same weak keypad tones (uh-oh). So the problem is not with the keypad but must lie elsewhere.

Rebuilt the keypad's power connections
I re-built the keypad's power connections. I ensured the keypad's wires and the CAT6 cable's wires make good contact within the "B" connectors. Unfortunately, that did not resolve the problem.

Swapped ports in the DataBus Hub
I plugged keypad #2 into the first port of the Databus Hub and keypad #1 into the second port. The terminator plug remained in the third port. Keypad #2 continued to generate weak tones.

Next step:
The next step is to re-build the cable's data connections at the keypad end and replace the RJ-45 plug at the Databus Hub end.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

It almost sounds like a partial short between two conductors of the wire run. My guess is when you redo the RJ-45 the problem will go away.
 
I believe the problem is tied to the keypad's firmware version. Here's why:
  1. I rebuilt the allegedly defective cable's RJ-45 connector but keypad #2 continued to have the problem.
  2. I swapped keypad #2 (weak beep) with keypad #1 (works well). If the cable was the culprit then keypad #1 would be affected. It was not; keypad #1 worked properly and keypad #2 still had the problem.
  3. Two days ago, I had tried a third keypad and it also had the 'weak beep' problem. It led me to believe the cable was defective. However, today's test confirms the cable is fine because the problem follows keypad#2.
Keypad #1 came with the M1G kit and is loaded with a slightly older version of firmware. The other two keypads were additional purchases and have the latest firmware.

Keypad Weak_Beep Firmware
1 No 2.1.40
2 Yes 2.1.48
3 Yes 2.1.48


At the moment, it isn't convenient to connect a PC to the equipment and use ELK-RP to read the M1G's firmware version. However, from the keypad, menu 07, item G44 is:
00AB1B8C55DB
A04040C B030202

I believe "A0404C" means version 4.4.12 (the latest).

So where does one go from here? Should I downgrade all keypads to firmware version 4.1.20?
Or is the presence of a 2.1.40 keypad having a negative impact on the 2.1.48 keypad? Maybe I should upgrade the 2.1.40 keypad (even if it is working properly)?
Can someone program their V2.1.48 keypad (M1KP) to reproduce the problem (Keypad beep tone 6 or higher and keypad volume 1) and confirm/deny its existence?
 
Could some kind soul try this at home ...

If you have an M1G with M1KP keypads, and they are loaded with the latest firmware (4.1.12 and 4.1.28, respectively) could you please perform the following simple test:

In menu 83 (System Settings/Keypad Adjustments)
1. Change the Keypad Beep tone to 6.
2. Change the Keypad Beep Volume to 1.

Wait 3 or more seconds and then press the * key (or any other key) a few times. The first keypress will sound faint but subsequent keypresses will sound OK. If you pause more than 2 seconds, the first keypress always sounds weak.

Let me know if you experience the same problem. Thanks.
 
Ok, I have duplicated your problem and it is definitely a problem with the keypad firmware. I had 2.1.40 and was not sure if I saw the problem or not. I upgraded to 2.1.48 and still was not certain, but then I played around with the beep and volume settings and I did see what you were talking about and it became obvious. I downgraded to 2.1.47 and the problem was still there. I did not have .40 for some reason, so I downgraded back to .38 and the problem disappeared. I upgraded back to .48 and it was back.

So, it looks like a bug was introduced somewhere between .40 and .47 and you are not crazy! I am on M1 FW 5.x
 
Ok, I have duplicated your problem and it is definitely a problem with the keypad firmware.
...
So, it looks like a bug was introduced somewhere between .40 and .47 and you are not crazy! I am on M1 FW 5.x

Steve, thank you so much for taking the time to confirm the problem is reproducible and linked to the keypad's firmware.

Is there a formal process for submitting bugs to the good folks at ELK? Or is it sufficient to simply post the problem in this (well monitored) forum?
 
I'm sure David or Don will see it here but you may want to call their tech support line to report it 'officially'.
 
I believe what is happening is the keypad audio amp not getting fully turned on when the beep signal is generated. The amp is on when subsequent beeps occur.

Waiting the 3 seconds allows the amp to turn off and the first generated beep is short.

We will look into fixing it.

Thanks for the great input.
 
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