RA2 or Z-Wave?

[Esbelectric]

So basically, Lutron wants the product to be dealer/installer only?

That sort means a DIY person such as myself should not look at RA2 as a possibility then, sticking instead with Z-Wave or UPB?

I think I understand.

By the way, what does this software do? Why does one need it?

Pardon the dumb questions, but I'm spending a bunch of time researching prior to adapting something.

I have no problem whatsoever with installers making a living, I just don't happen to have the budget to go that route.

the software allows your maximum device count to increase from 50 to 100 and makes programming and subsequent changes much easier. also you can integrate your ra2 system with other control systems like control4, hai, and all the other big names when programmed with the software. If you are determined to do it all yourself, im sure you will find someone who will sell you the devices and give you the software. Or you could just program it the old fashioned way (lots of walking back and forth). Either way, ra2 is in my opinion the best bang for your buck in lighting control and is only going to get better with the release of additional products like thermostats and hybrid keypads. If would be happy to help you out with getting your parts at a good price and programming, if you are interested just send me a pm

At about a hundred bucks a switch I'm not sure how that's bang for a buck. Deanne is correct - We, the DIY people are certainly not going to be jumping on this anytime soon.

what products are you comparing and what do they cost per device? i can assure you that lutron has a much more established reputation for reliability and innovation, and for me there isnt a keypad that has the high end look as lutrons for any price. a decent dimmer cost 30 bucks, what do the high end upb devices cost?

 

[Deane Johnson]

I would probably use Vazia RF Plus dimmers with Z-Wave. Certainly not the cheapest to buy.

Yet another consideration with RA2 vs Z-Wave or other protocol is the ability of a chosen control software to interface with RA2.

Since I haven't settled on software yet, I'm not sure what quality dimmers I need (Z-Wave). Like most everyone else, I'd just as soon not spend more than I need to.

I appreciate the comments that have been made. I'm not the OP, but hopefully the discussion will be of aid to the OP and won't be considered a hijack.

 

[pete_c]

I'm currently switching out my Insteon to UPB. Initially didn't want to use RF but testing Intermatic Z-Wave light/appliance modules. (got a deal). I understand that Intermatic was more on the low end but got a "deal" on a number of modules ($4 and $16). I am currently using a Vizia controller (serial) and a Vizia RF programmer. My first test was to install three Intermatic lighting modules. One failed within a week or so. ( it burned up). This is making me think some more of my endeavor. Originally was going to switch the wall plate light switches to UPB and the modules to Z-Wave. If I go to a higher end lighting module (say Vizia) then my costs will be similiar to UPB. Historically I've never had this occur with an X10 or Insteon appliance/lighting module. Now re-thinking my DIY endeavor.

 

[Monk]

I would probably use Vazia RF Plus dimmers with Z-Wave. Certainly not the cheapest to buy.

Yet another consideration with RA2 vs Z-Wave or other protocol is the ability of a chosen control software to interface with RA2.

Since I haven't settled on software yet, I'm not sure what quality dimmers I need (Z-Wave). Like most everyone else, I'd just as soon not spend more than I need to.

I appreciate the comments that have been made. I'm not the OP, but hopefully the discussion will be of aid to the OP and won't be considered a hijack.

Vizia RF + aren't cheap agreed. I have been buying those exclusively. With HomeSeer as the control software you are covered for Zwave control and automation panel integration.

 

[Esbelectric]

I would probably use Vazia RF Plus dimmers with Z-Wave. Certainly not the cheapest to buy.

Yet another consideration with RA2 vs Z-Wave or other protocol is the ability of a chosen control software to interface with RA2.

Since I haven't settled on software yet, I'm not sure what quality dimmers I need (Z-Wave). Like most everyone else, I'd just as soon not spend more than I need to.

I appreciate the comments that have been made. I'm not the OP, but hopefully the discussion will be of aid to the OP and won't be considered a hijack.

ra2 integration partners http://resi.lutron.com/radiora/RadioRA2/Dr...74/Default.aspx

ra2 website http://www.lutron.com/Products/SingleRoomC...s/Overview.aspx
you cant find better looking keypads, and ra2 is on an fm frequency that isnt suitable for most other devices (short burst transmission), get ra2, get the software, and you cant go wrong, the only price you pay is having someone do your initial setup, not a bad thing

 

[Herdfan]

I guess I am trying to figure out where Lutron is coming from on DIY. Am I a little slow catching on that they don't want DIY at all. Otherwise, why would they be restricting software. Am I misunderstanding something? In other words, why sneak around after midnight looking for a dealer who will slip me the software if I pay him more? What would be the reason I would want to do that?

I would say they don't get all upset at DIY like say a Crestron or AMX would. I think they understand it and accept it, but don't advertise it. After all, as I a noted, they make a Homeowner Version of their Homeworks software available. And unlike C4, this is the full version of the software, it just has some pricing info removed.

What they don't want is for their product to be commoditized. They want to protect their dealers. So find a dealer that will work with you. They are allowed to give you the software if they choose to. You won't be able to get it from an online retailer who is selling the product at 5 points over cost.

It is what it is and you will get what you pay for.

 

[Fiasco]

I guess I am trying to figure out where Lutron is coming from on DIY. Am I a little slow catching on that they don't want DIY at all. Otherwise, why would they be restricting software. Am I misunderstanding something? In other words, why sneak around after midnight looking for a dealer who will slip me the software if I pay him more? What would be the reason I would want to do that?

I would say they don't get all upset at DIY like say a Crestron or AMX would. I think they understand it and accept it, but don't advertise it. After all, as I a noted, they make a Homeowner Version of their Homeworks software available. And unlike C4, this is the full version of the software, it just has some pricing info removed.

What they don't want is for their product to be commoditized. They want to protect their dealers. So find a dealer that will work with you. They are allowed to give you the software if they choose to. You won't be able to get it from an online retailer who is selling the product at 5 points over cost.

It is what it is and you will get what you pay for.

I think herd hit on it pretty well. Lutron doesn't want their product dumped on the market without post sale support. Lutron is intent upon maintaining their position as the quality leader.

You can buy it from a cut rate online retailer who gives no support whatsoever or you can buy it from any of the
lutron certified posters here on the board. I cost more than a cut rate e-tailer but good luck with support after the sale from an etailer. They aren't going to provide you with a one line diagram or initial programming for a product like command fusion.

 

[rscott]

I'm a programmer so I'll be creating my own home automation software package. Is anyone aware of something available for UPB that works well?

 

[ddennerline]

I have 9 Leviton Vizia RF+ switches, dimmers, and lamp modules installed. They are all controlled using VRC0P and ElkM1G. I personally would not have paid $100 a switch. I installed these switches more for security/safety reasons. I wanted all the lights to come on during an emergency. The secondary consideration is when coming home or leaving, the lights turn on/off to make it easier to carry groceries into kitchen. Also at night, it’s nice to press F4 on turn off all downstairs lights. I am unsure if I will plop down another $1000 for remaining set of switches ($60 a shot). Leviton does sell lower priced Vizia switches without Z-Wave that are physically identical - they only cost $9-15. Hopefully, the Vizia+ dimmer/switch prices will come down to the $40 range.

I choose Vizia+ because of the wide selection of switches, dimmers, and keypads. The bi-directional communication between ElkM1G and VRC0P, and multi-vendor/open nature of Z-Wave is an added bonus. The switches in the six months that I have used do seem to be very durable. I have grown to like the paddle design.

The only problem I am experiencing is there’s known defect in ElkM1’s M1XSP/Vizia+ firmware. Elk does maintain proper lighting status if a group/zone command is sent (turn off all inside lights). This defect does not appear to impact whether a light is turned off/on if status is not correct. Elk did attempt to provide a work-around. Unfortunately, this work-around is not effective. I learned that M1XSP firmware allows raw ASCII to be transmitted from M1XSP to VRC0P, so there may still be possibility to hack an interim solution together. I wish that Elk would update the Vizia+ firmware to correct this problem.

 

[Neurorad]

Another benefit of RA2 is that you can get non-RF dimmers that match perfectly, if multiganged, or for other dimmers in the room.

This is very important to me, and I'm sure to many others.

 

[ASIHome]

You also have that with Vizia RF+. The Vizia+ lines matches it.

 

[Rupp]

I'm a programmer so I'll be creating my own home automation software package. Is anyone aware of something available for UPB that works well?

What are you asking? About other software? If you are creating your own software I assume you are talking about hardware?

 

[Neurorad]

You also have that with Vizia RF+. The Vizia+ lines matches it.

Thanks, Barry. Wasn't aware of that.

Any other Z-Wave dimmers have corresponding standard dimmers?

 

[jrfuda]

Any other Z-Wave dimmers have corresponding standard dimmers?

I think the Cooper Aspire products match their standard dimmers/switches/fan controls as well.

 

[divemstr]

With all the good and bad about any option out there you must start with; what your expectations are... how large do you want to go (how many loads do you want to control)... will the system be stand alone on interfaced with a controller...etc
There are proponents of RF systems and Proponents of UPB systems. But when talking about bang for the buck... based on retail pricing, control options, programming options... UPB gives the best bang for the buck.