running wires to the headend

[DavidL]

IVB,
The reason is he gets this one time to get run what he can. He isn't a dealer, so labor isn't as big an issue. It would take a couple of hours to do the whole thing from top to bottom. The wire cost is small potatoes. This provides for flexibility for the future unknown and things installed centrally is easier to wire and manage and change.

Everything that pkoslow says is true for a dealer that is interested more in efficiency.

You could go either way, but home run wiring allows you to reuse those same wires for other purposes if something changes. The tubes you ran will help for future proofing too, but no time like when the walls are all opened up. Heck in the time it has taken to talk about this, it would have been done already...

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Ok guys, I'm looking at the M1XIN 16 zone expander .PDF manual and I still couldn't visualize how a contact sensor using 22/2, motion sensors/smoke sensors using 22/4 or 18/4 gets terminated to this board. The manual doesn't say also the number of sensors this M1XIN 16 zone expander can handle.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[WayneW]

Ok guys, I'm looking at the M1XIN 16 zone expander .PDF manual and I still couldn't visualize how a contact sensor using 22/2, motion sensors/smoke sensors using 22/4 or 18/4 gets terminated to this board. The manual doesn't say also the number of sensors this M1XIN 16 zone expander can handle.

sensors get connected to the expander just like they do the main board. One lead to the zoneX screw, one lead to the common screw. If using a motion sensor that needs power, connect the other two leads to power.

16 zones = 16 sensors, unless you want to put multiple sensors on a zone.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

If you run out of zones 2 years from now on an expander you just add another one right there.

I'm really leaning towards this route. So, just like my previous question which doesn't have an answer yet am I correct that for every new expander we add, 1 pair of 18/4 is needed? That's 8 conductors.

I would also run an additional 18/4 from the panel to the cans for Smoke detector power and sirens etc. Actually a few extra's would be good.

If you read my previous reply, it's somewhat related to this. Can't we terminate an 18/4 from a smoke sensor to this M1XIN zone expander?

 

[Digger]

The power for 4 wire smokes comes from a seperate bus (SAUX) so that they can be reset, and so that a problem on another bus (such as VAUX) does not interupt the power to the smokes.

This is why I sated you need to run a seperate 18/4 to the can from the panel for the SAUX power for the smokes.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Ok guys, I'm looking at the M1XIN 16 zone expander .PDF manual and I still couldn't visualize how a contact sensor using 22/2, motion sensors/smoke sensors using 22/4 or 18/4 gets terminated to this board. The manual doesn't say also the number of sensors this M1XIN 16 zone expander can handle.

sensors get connected to the expander just like they do the main board. One lead to the zoneX screw, one lead to the common screw. If using a motion sensor that needs power, connect the other two leads to power.

16 zones = 16 sensors, unless you want to put multiple sensors on a zone.

Ok, motion sensor uses 4 conductors. You said, 16 zones = 16 sensors. That means, one M1XIN board can handle 16 motion sensors for each 16 zones. This is just an example. It's more related to the 4 conductor thing.

Am I correct?

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

The power for 4 wire smokes comes from a seperate bus (SAUX) so that they can be reset, and so that a problem on another bus (such as VAUX) does not interupt the power to the smokes.

This is why I sated you need to run a seperate 18/4 to the can from the panel for the SAUX power for the smokes.

Ok. This would be more easier to answer and serves for an example only, not in real world residental application.

First floor, 3 boards of M1XIN 16 zone expander heading to the main panel. Am I correct that I need 6 runs of 18/4?

Here is how I am understanding your statement

2 runs of 18/4 for every single M1XIN 16 zone expander.

 

[Digger]

you can parallel the zone expanders on one 18/4 and terminate the last one if you want.

Double check the HUB you are using since I am not familiar with that hub I used the retrofit

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

you can parallel the zone expanders on one 18/4 and terminate the last one if you want.

Looking back at the manual, I'm only seeing 1 run of 18/4 from expander to the databus. What is the use of the second run then? And if you see in my picture, the M1DBH ends with an RJ45 receptacle. I don't think a single conductor from an 18 gauge wire will be able to go into a pinhole in the RJ45 connector. I think, I need a different model. I think I need M1DBHR rather than M1DBH.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

you can parallel the zone expanders on one 18/4 and terminate the last one if you want.

Double check the HUB you are using since I am not familiar with that hub I used the retrofit

Yes, you are right, it's the retrofit. Glad I scrolled down the webpage on the ELK(http://www.elkproducts.com/products/m1/M1_Data_Bus_Hubs.htm) and saw the retrofit.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

I'm sorry guys if I have many questions. I just want to make sure that I'm not going to be lacking any runs.

Here is the final number of sensors(as of this writing) for my second floor.

7 runs of 22/2 wire (7 window contacts)
6 runs of 18/4 wire (5 smoke and 1 siren)
3 runs of 22/4 wire (1 CO and 2 water sensor)
1 run of CAT5E for keypad (1 for keypad)

So
1.) how many M1XIN expander do I need?

2.) how many 18/4 runs do I need from M1XIN to the M1DBHR databus?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[WayneW]

7 runs of 22/2 wire (7 window contacts)
6 runs of 18/4 wire (5 smoke and 1 siren)
3 runs of 22/4 wire (1 CO and 2 water sensor)
1 run of CAT5E for keypad (1 for keypad)

So
1.) how many M1XIN expander do I need?

that totals 16 sensors/zones, so you don't NEED any XIN expanders if youa re getting the M1G

 

[Digger]

Wayne,

that is only for the second floor....... so that in itself is one expander.

 

[Steve]

Well, in the design discussed, he would need the 1 XIN for the second floor, assuming an expander(s) per floor.

 

[Digger]

In my opinion.......

Pull 3 or more 18/4 to the second floor CAN along with several Cat 5 (one for each room on that floor minimum in my opinion) and a few coax. I would also pull telco lines. From that CAN you can route elsewhere on that floor.

Remember that if you wanted to add a second expander on the second floor it just hooks up in parallel with the first (inside teh can about 6 inches of lead wire). So you can add as many zones in the future as you want up to the limit of the panel.