Security & CCTV & Home Automation - PCB vs PC

[kemperflow]

I have plenty old servers around (dual power supply, Raid 5 disks, etc) plus good battery backup. I can also do some .NET coding, serial port reading writing, etc.. I also have a handful of X10 devices and control panels from two houses ago. I have a pretty beefy computer network at the house that can even use a Sprint wireless card as backup. That being said.

The need:
I am looking to have cameras all around the house, an alarm system with 2-3 control pads and around 8-16 zones, and some home automation would be a bonus. I would like to access all of it from the internet.

I installed an Ademco Vista 20 at my old house for security only. It was pretty straightforward, but I soon realized that almost none of these commercial alarm systems had any kind of good internet access. They had ethernet or phone line connections for notifying alarm monitoring companies, etc, but nothing that was a send an email, and then allow me to browse the house and see what zones were violated, etc.

I looked at the Indigo home automation platform for the Mac (don't have a Mac, but would buy one just for this cool interface with the iPhone), but it doesn't appear to have any security attributes to speak of.

From the CCTV standpoint, I found some cool DVR boxes from Lorex, they also sell cards that I could put into my PC. It appears Avermedia and some other PC platforms are pretty good.

The home automation side is all over the place, I didn't find solid PC-based home automation systems that could also handle security well (preferrably something that you could program from the PC, monitor from the PC, but I didn't know what you would use for keypads, etc.

All that being said, any recommendations? I am leaning towards the Elk M1 Gold, along with either a DVR based camera system or a PC based camera system. My budget is flexible, and I may buy pieces over time, but I would like to stay around $1K (another $500 wouldn't kill me, but another $2K would make my wife kill me).

Are there any good combos for the Elk and a camera system? Are there any software based solutions I should look at?

As a last side note, I do have a pool that uses Jandy equipment, and it appears I can buy some stupid expensive converter box that would allow me to communicate with the pool equipment using serial connections. Oh, and I hate proprietary communication methods as a fyi. Linux vs Windows doesn't matter to me.

Broad enough? Thanks for reading this far. I will share my final system once I pick it.

 

[electron]

hi kemperflow, welcome to CT!

The Elk M1 is a very good choice, most home automation packages do support this panel, but if not, it's easy to write your own application/driver.

As for DVR's, if you want it PC based, I think the AverMedia NV5000 solution is probably one of the better choices. If you have the budget tho, I would probably try to stick with an appliance based DVR tho (AverMedia has those as well, but there are plenty of good choices), just to keep things simple.

 

[JimS]

You might want to look at zoneminder for security cameras - Open source for Linux. For home automation there is misterhouse - open source perl that has code to talk to almost anything and more being written all the time. A steep learning curve if you don't know perl but everthing is open and the support list is very helpful. For alarms there are some newer ones that have interfaces. For example, CADDX has the NX-8E and I think misterhouse has code to talk to it. You could tie in phones with asterisk open source phone software. There are probably easier paths but these are about as open as you can get.

 

[kemperflow]

The CADDX looks interesting, although it is still amazing that RS232 rules the roost for communication. I would have almost thought these devices would support WIFI and Ethernet and have a lot more functionality nowadays, although I understand the alarm installers for the most part aren't computer networking gurus by trade so it makes some sense...

I think I'm going to go with a hardware DVR appliance, 8 cameras and the Elk. I did look at CQC, but the website doesn't really show exactly what the platform is and what it does, but I guess there are some videos to download, etc. Sounds like maybe it is a like a mister house or a main lobby? Maybe I'll wind up with CQC, Elk and a Lorex DVR. We'll see how much trouble that gets me into.

A quick blurb on CQC would be helpful though if someone has experience with it..

 

[sic0048]

CQC is a professional grade home automation software. It is designed to connect different system together that normally wouldn't interact together. So it might connect your HVAC, lighting, security, A/V, and security cameras into one cohesive system. Without this interconnecting unit, those systems would never be able to communicate with each other.

It is similar to MainLobby on the most basic levels (ie they strive to do the same thing), but the two companies take very different directions in trying to accomplish this idea of interconnecting systems together. Besides ML, there are lots of similar systems out there. CQC seems to find a niche because while it is very DIY friendly (unlike Control4, AMX, or Crestron), it is robust enough to be used by professional installers. Dean works very hard at making the system as bullet-proof and stable as possible while continuing to expand the abilities of the overall system.

Don't forget that CQC is currently on sale for a cost of $333 for the DIY version. Dean has one all inclusive price (unlike ML that charges by the feature). There is also a yearly update fee if you want to be able to receive the normal improvements that Dean is constantly making. But you'll never pay by the feature like ML does. So $333 upfront includes everything that is currently available for any CQC user - every driver, every feature, etc, etc,.

 

[kemperflow]

Hmm.. It appears that CQC will control that CADDX alarm panel and also has support for my Jandy Pool equipment. Considering I already own the X10 TW523 interface, etc, is there a benefit using the ELK1 panel or could I just get away with using CQC? There is just enough information on both Elk1 and CQC to be dangerous, but I don't see clearly what the features differences would be, although the obvious would be that ELK provides hardware contact closures, etc, but it appears that you can buy generic relay and contact closure panels that can be controlled by CQC.

I'm assuming that CQC has all the rules processing functionality that the ELK has?

I guess the real question for me is, do I buy the CADDX and CQC system or I just buy ELK and then CQC in the future. I'm trying to stay under the $1K mark for now (not including the DVR's and cameras).

I'd love to see a short writeup on the different home automation panels, security panels, etc, with a list of pro's/con's, major features, missing features, intentions, etc. I've seen lists of all the platforms, but a matrixed comparison table would be pretty killer. I think I'll probably put something like that together when I'm done here with the components I've been looking at.

 

[electron]

To be honest, I wouldn't even consider the CaddX system. while it was a nice panel back when it was released, but it is not as user friendly/powerful as the Elk M1/HAI platforms. There are members with both CaddX/Elk M1 experience, so hopefully they'll chime in soon.

 

[DavidL]

It is similar to MainLobby on the most basic levels (ie they strive to do the same thing), but the two companies take very different directions in trying to accomplish this idea of interconnecting systems together. Besides ML, there are lots of similar systems out there. CQC seems to find a niche because while it is very DIY friendly (unlike Control4, AMX, or Crestron), it is robust enough to be used by professional installers. Dean works very hard at making the system as bullet-proof and stable as possible while continuing to expand the abilities of the overall system.

Don't forget that CQC is currently on sale for a cost of $333 for the DIY version. Dean has one all inclusive price (unlike ML that charges by the feature). There is also a yearly update fee if you want to be able to receive the normal improvements that Dean is constantly making. But you'll never pay by the feature like ML does. So $333 upfront includes everything that is currently available for any CQC user - every driver, every feature, etc, etc,.

FYI....the CQC comments above with regards to "robust enough to be used by professional installers" and "...works very hard at making the system as bullet-proof...." very much applies to MainLobby (and Homeseer) as well.

I would be very sure that out of the three, there are more Homeseer, then MainLobby and following in third CQC "Pro" installations that exist. Now, all three combined wouldn't dent Crestron's balance sheet. I have talked to many of the dealers out there, met them at trade shows etc and would be very suprised if those aren't the FACTS.

HA is a small nitch, PC based HA is even smaller. And with the current market factors, both are getting much smaller.

With regards to price...there are definate different strategies. There is a much more investment in time required for both CQC and Homeseer to "get something of interest working" than MainLobby. Now, if you want to personalize every bit of the system...then they all take great amounts of time, depending on the scope of the system and customization.

I use and support both CQC and MainLobby and soon Homeseer. There surely are pros and cons with each.

Oh...back on track...if you are thinking of HA and like that idea of incredibly powerful system at low up front cost and don't mind spending time as a DIY...you can't beat a ELK or HAI panel connected to a dedicated commercial duty PC running HS / ML or CQC. Kicks butt on just about anything out there (no matter the price) if you put the time and talent into the system (that's the REAL cost).

 

[larry80]

To be honest, I wouldn't even consider the CaddX system. while it was a nice panel back when it was released, but it is not as user friendly/powerful as the Elk M1/HAI platforms. There are members with both CaddX/Elk M1 experience, so hopefully they'll chime in soon.

I have been told that Caddx is the easiest alarm to install for DIY. Is that True???

 

[tmbrown97]

Welcome Larry! This is a 3.5yr old thread... if you have some specific questions, try posting a new topic so you can get personalized guidance.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I've installed a Caddx NX8e (two of them) and an Elk M1 (again two of those) and though both are similar to install (with their hardware) the Elk M1 is far easier to setup and program.