Security system noob

[abernut]

The guys at AVS sent me this way.

We are having our first home built. I will be doing ll the low voltage. I've got the LAN and COAX drawn out.

Now I am trying to figure out the security system.
It is a two story house with a attached single car garage and a two car detached garage/man cave.
There are 4 bedrooms.
There are a total of 26 windows and 5 doors.

My zones are planned as followed
Down stairs windows
Down stairs doors
Down stairs Motion sensors
Upstairs windows
Upstairs doors
Upstairs Motion sensors
Smoke alarms
Water sensor (leak detection)
Garage Motion sensor
Garage Doors

From my research this morning I read that:
Smoke detectors should go in every sleeping room and one per floor.
Use solid 4 conductor 22 AWG alarm wire (BLK, RD, GRN, YEL)
Smoke sensors and the power wires for the alarm typically should be 18 AWG or better
Use normally closed (NC) circuits when possible

Since it is new construction everything will be hard wired for now.

This morning I was sure that DSC was the way to go. Then after reading through forums for a few more hours I was sure that Ademco was the way to go. I should of stopped there but I kept on researching and now it seems like the ELK system is the way to go. I can start of with a basic security system and in 900 years I might be able to afford to start adding functionality/automation.

So now to my questions.
What basics components do I need to achieve this.
I was looking at the ELK M1 Gold ELK-M1GCB Control Board
Should I only buy certain types/brands of sensors (windows/doors/smoke). Are there compatiblilty issues I need to watch out for
Will the Ethernet Interface (M1XEP) allow me to remotely monitor and receive notifications when the alarm is tripped
Thanks,
Mike

 

[LabPaddy]

Don't discount the DSC/Ademco with an Envisalink EVL-3 setup. I went that route with a Vista 20P as I didn't want to mix security with automation and I was able to save some money. The EVL-3 gets you alerts via email.

 

[nightwalker]

A DSC fan here but for me it's only security. I use HomeSeer for the automation chores and only interface the two together. Weather you use the ELK or HAI for security and automation chores or just a DSC or Ademco depends on what your expected setup is going to do. If you're going to use the Security system for automation then go with the ELK or HAI. If it's for just security and your planning to use something else for automation then go with DSC or Ademco.

 

[newalarm]

Welcome.
 
Are you going to do the install yourself, or have a contractor do it?
 
If you do it yourself, it is A LOT of work!!! and time! Get good quality wire, not the cheapest kind. Most wiring is 22ga, but smoke and heat sensors is 18 i think, and speakers, strobes, and sirens 16. This is basic rule of thumb but depends on how far your runs are. On the elk, you can run 22/4 for keypads, or Cat 5/6 depending on how you go.
 
You seem to have a good idea of what you want covered. The best is to look at the cut sheets and installation manuals for each device you choose. Read them carefully. I think most people don't stick to one brand for each type of device, but use various.
 
For motions, don't think one model fits all, but select one for the exact room/space. a motion that works great in a big living room will not necessarily work in a small hallway. I like the Bosch. they have a chart that help you select the model for your space and needs.
 
I am novice BTW.

 

[ano]

When it comes to sensors, you can't have too many.  Its MUCH easier to add wire now than to add it later when you realize you forgot it. 
 
I haven't seen your house, but one per floor with the sleeping areas is the VERY minimum.  Also consider CO detectors and putting heat/fire sensors in an attic and garage is also a very good idea.  I ended up with a motion detector in every room, not for security but for home automation, but having more motion detectors helps with security too.  There is a feature on HAI and ELK called cross-zoning that prevents false alarms when you get an occasional bad motion detector.  Having more motion detectors helps that work good.  

 

[pete_c]

I would concentrate on the "wired / cabled" infrastructure initially just related to security and what you want to utilize secondarily.
 
Have a quick read through the wiring for infrastructure threads here on the forum.  Ask questions.
 
This would be the cheapest part of your endeavor; relating to costs of wires and labor of installation. 
 
Personally I lean towards HAI and Elk panels for security; but that is me. 
 
I did have an alarm panel in the 1980's which had multiple zoning (> 16 zones), TTS (primitive-recorded sound bytes) and X10 control.

 

[snakevargas]

After doing my first install, the M1XEP pretty much feels mandatory to me. It will send you notifications via email (caveat: only to an email provider that does not require SSL connections), but the best part of it is being able to program the panel using ElkRP from any computer on your network. It also allows you to run ekeypad on your iPad or iPhone as a keypad and monitoring app. I found this very handy when testing my door sensors as I could carry the ipad around with me and verify that each door was operating properly.

I think the popular thing to do is to buy an M1GSYS4 rather than a ELK-M1GCB. That gives you a keypad, transformer, speaker, can, battery, RJ31X, etc. In my case, I didn't need the speaker (I used the flush mount speakers instead) and I'd rather a 28" can than a 14" can, so maybe I could have saved a little by ordering the items separately rather, but for a noob like me the kit was a good way to get started.

 

[newalarm]

oh yeah, COs. I forgot that. I also installed wires for future Gaz leak detectors, but they are EXPENSIVE, so have not yet invested.
 
One thing on motions, there is a huge difference between motions for alarms, and occupancy sensors (motions for lighting or other). You don't want to use your alarm sensors to detect motion since they will have blind spots and you may have your lights turning off simply because you are sitting in a blind spot. And occupancy sensors need overlapping coverage that can often trigger false alarms.

 

[Neurorad]

I wonder if a distributor like Automated Outlet would give you a shopping list, if you give them a floorplan.

You lack the knowledge to adequately plan the install. You need to get that knowledge. If you have the luxury of time, this thread might suffice. Otherwise, a local alarm company may be able to design it for you.

The wiring is, for the most part, panel agnostic. I wouldn't buy any hardware until you're ready to install. Focus on the cabling, with an eye to a future M1 install.

 

[newalarm]

Focus on the cabling, with an eye to a future M1 install.

 
Yes, but really do your research on what wiring you need. Running the wrong wire will really set you back in time and money.

 

[abernut]

Welcome.
 
Are you going to do the install yourself, or have a contractor do it?

I am going to "try" and do it all myself.  I have a friend that owns a "network installation" company so 99% of my material is going to be free and he is also giving me a hand in pulling wires.
 
 
 

I wonder if a distributor like Automated Outlet would give you a shopping list, if you give them a floorplan.

You lack the knowledge to adequately plan the install. You need to get that knowledge. If you have the luxury of time, this thread might suffice. Otherwise, a local alarm company may be able to design it for you.

The wiring is, for the most part, panel agnostic. I wouldn't buy any hardware until you're ready to install. Focus on the cabling, with an eye to a future M1 install.

I have about 4 months before the low voltage phase needs to be ready
 
To be honest, the basic security install (Wires and sensors) does not seem that complicated.  I am sure the complexity starts when you need to configure the system.
I have printed out a separate floor plan just for security.
I have labeled all spots where a sensor should go (Windows, Doors, Motion Sensors, etc...)
I plan on home running each sensor back to the control panel.
 
I am just not sure what ELK system to start with.  For now it will only be for security.  I would like to receive some sort of notification if a zone is tripped.  Then when the dust settles from building a new home I will look into simple automation features.
 
Thanks for your help on this.
 
P.S.
If anyone lives in North Florida and would like to help....Drinks are on me

 

[abernut]

Here is the list I came up with.  The Bold items are things I think I need to get the security up and running.  The rest will be added whenever I can afford it.
There are two WHA systems listed because I have not yet decided on one.
 
I am sure I am missing a ton of stuff (Power, Battery Back-Up, Expansion Board, etc..)
 
 
 

Device

Item #

QTY

Price/Unit

Total

Description

Control Panel

20A00-8

1

$1,095.00

$1,095.00

Control board with mounting plate

Omni Touch Pad

53A00-2

2

$800.00

$1,600.00

HAI OmniTouch 5.7e PoE Touchscreen

Omni Console Pad

33A004

3

$145.00

$435.00

Alarm Pads for Front Door, Garge entrance and Detached Garage door

Flush Mount kit

33a00-3

3

$20.00

$60.00

Flush wall mount kit for console pad 33A004

OmniStat 2

rc-1000Wh

2

$150.00

$300.00

Thermostats for upstairs and downstairs

Motion Sensors

AAURORA

13

$21.00

$273.00

Honeywell Ademco AURORA PIR Motion Sensor

Door Sensors

951WG-WH

6

$4.00

$24.00

 

Window Sensors

BS-2024

26

$3.95

$102.70

 

Smoke Detector

429AT

7

$45.00

$315.00

 

Siren/Strobe Light

SSX-52S-B

2

$58.00

$116.00

 

Indoor Siren

747

2

$15.80

$31.60

 

Enclosure

47605-42W

1

$90.00

$90.00

Levinton 42-Inch Enclosure with Cover

Software

HAI 1126

1

$315.00

$315.00

Used to set up devices and customize touch screen

HiFi2 Board

95A01-1

1

$1,700.00

$1,700.00

8 Zones, 8 Source Control Board

Mounting Plate

20A07-2

1

$30.00

$30.00

Mounting plate for HiFI2 Board

HIFi2 Volume/Source Control

95A03-1

7

$140.00

$980.00

 

Nuvo Grand

NV18GMS

1

$2,600.00

$2,600.00

 

 

 

 

 

$10,067.30

 
 
I have pictures of the floor plans and where I think the devices should go but I cannot post images yet.
 
I was planning on running 22/4 wire to the Window Contacts, Door Contacts, Smoke Detectors, Horn/Siren, Strobe Light, Motion Detectors, Water/Leak Sensor.
I was planning on running CAT5E to the Keypads, Thermostats, and Audio Keypads.
 
Not sure what wire to use with the Whole Home Audio in ceiling speakers.

 

[pete_c]

I have my zoned speakers wired with 16/2 (two per location) going to a gang box at the location where they go to 16/4 to the comm room. 

 

[abernut]

Sorry about the above.
My table did not render correctly when I submitted the reply
 
DEVICE                                  ITEM        QTY       PRICE       TOTAL     DESCRIPTION
Control Panel                       20A00-8     1       $1,095.00                     Control board with mounting plate 
Omni Touch Pad                    53A00-2      2      $800.00       $1,600.00 HAI OmniTouch 5.7e PoE Touchscreen 
Omni Console Pad               33A004       3      $145.00       $435.00 Alarm Pads for Front Door, Garge entrance and Detached Garage door 
Flush Mount kit                    33a00-3      3      $20.00         $60.00 Flush wall mount kit for console pad 33A004 
OmniStat 2                            rc-1000Wh  2      $150.00       $300.00 Thermostats for upstairs and downstairs 
Motion Sensors                   AAURORA   13    $21.00         $273.00 Honeywell Ademco AURORA PIR Motion Sensor 
Door Sensors                       951WG-WH  6     $4.00           $24.00   
Window Sensors                  BS-2024      26    $3.95          $102.70   
Smoke Detector                    429AT          7     $45.00        $315.00   
Siren/Strobe Light                SSX-52S-B   2     $58.00        $116.00  
Indoor Siren                           747              2     $15.80        $31.60   
Enclosure                               47605-42W 1     $90.00        $90.00 Levinton 42-Inch Enclosure with Cover 
Software HAI                            1126            1     $315.00      $315.00 Used to set up devices and customize touch screen
HiFi2 Board                              95A01-1      1     $1,700.00   $1,700.00 8 Zones, 8 Source Control Board
Mounting Plate                         20A07-2      1     $30.00        $30.00 Mounting plate for HiFI2 Board
HIFi2 Volume/Source Control   95A03-1      7     $140.00      $980.00  
Nuvo Grand                              NV18GMS   1     $2,600.00   $2,600.00  

 

[abernut]

Sorry about the above.
My table did not render correctly when I submitted the reply
 
DEVICE                                  ITEM        QTY       PRICE       TOTAL     DESCRIPTION
Control Panel                       20A00-8     1       $1,095.00                     Control board with mounting plate 
Omni Touch Pad                    53A00-2      2      $800.00       $1,600.00 HAI OmniTouch 5.7e PoE Touchscreen 
Omni Console Pad               33A004       3      $145.00       $435.00 Alarm Pads for Front Door, Garge entrance and Detached Garage door 
Flush Mount kit                    33a00-3      3      $20.00         $60.00 Flush wall mount kit for console pad 33A004 
OmniStat 2                            rc-1000Wh  2      $150.00       $300.00 Thermostats for upstairs and downstairs 
Motion Sensors                   AAURORA   13    $21.00         $273.00 Honeywell Ademco AURORA PIR Motion Sensor 
Door Sensors                       951WG-WH  6     $4.00           $24.00   
Window Sensors                  BS-2024      26    $3.95          $102.70   
Smoke Detector                    429AT          7     $45.00        $315.00   
Siren/Strobe Light                SSX-52S-B   2     $58.00        $116.00  
Indoor Siren                           747              2     $15.80        $31.60   
Enclosure                               47605-42W 1     $90.00        $90.00 Levinton 42-Inch Enclosure with Cover 
Software HAI                            1126            1     $315.00      $315.00 Used to set up devices and customize touch screen
HiFi2 Board                              95A01-1      1     $1,700.00   $1,700.00 8 Zones, 8 Source Control Board
Mounting Plate                         20A07-2      1     $30.00        $30.00 Mounting plate for HiFI2 Board
HIFi2 Volume/Source Control   95A03-1      7     $140.00      $980.00  
Nuvo Grand                              NV18GMS   1     $2,600.00   $2,600.00