Seeking feedback on Omnipro II system with 4-wires smokes

[mattbuff5]

I thought the dip switch on the RRS only dictaates wheter signal is coded or continuous. My reasoning behing the 1 sec trigger, was to emulate the switching voltage to trigger the reversing polarity. I thorught the smokes only needed polarity switched momentarily to simultanesouly trigger? I have tested the smokes and they are working as desired. When one smoke alarms, all simultaneously 3-tone alarm. Also, they are controllable by kepybad and Mod2 functionality works. Am I just getting lucky and something hidden could be wrong with my setup?

 

[Del91574]

You are getting lucky. A 1 sec. trigger may come close to a temporal-3 output trigger, but it's not the same. Temporal-3 is, per ANSI: three half second pulses, followed by a one and one half second pause, repeated for a minimum of 180 seconds

I would set the dipswitch to continous voltage and make the suitable changes to facilitate this, unless you are able to provide a temporal-3 pulse to the relay.

 

[foxtail22]

Since you started this in March, I am not sure it is still active but I just took out an Omni II and upgraded to and ELK. My Omni II was connected as you wanted to do yours. I had and ESL-405-3 reversing relay but they are very similiar. I had 3 fire sones all connected to the ESL. Since the reversing relay only deals with the power connections to the smokes and not the signal, as long as you run the power for all smoke zones through your revesing relay, it will work. The hookups on the Onmi were as follows: The normal power to the smokes was connected to the Switched voltage terminals. The reversing voltage was connected to the EXT terminal. When one smoke tripped, the reversing relay cause all to trip. The reset cycle required two passes. The first time you entered you access code, it turned off all the smokes except the one that caused the alarm. You then did a second accesso code entry to turn off the remaining smoke. It was a nice feature to find the smoke that caused the alarm. I use a voice announcer module that is also activated by the EXT terminal and put a loud fire message on all speakers.

 

[cmarcus]

mb5 - glad to hear you've had some success with this. I wish I could say I have too, but my incompetent builder has us so far behind schedule I've been doing his job instead of focusing on my LV/automation plans.

Foxtail22 - I like the idea of having the detecting smoke stay in alarm after disabling the rest. I'll have to explore the some more.

Thanks for the feedback, all!

 

[Del91574]

It will work, however with a suitable EOL power supervision relay, once the power is reversed, it will put all the connected fire loops into fire trouble as well as trigger the tandem ring. How the panel differentiates that and the amount of signals generated (or log events) are the only variable.

If you don't have power supervision relays (VERY BAD IDEA) you would not get the trouble conditions on reversed condition, but it's compromising the installation's integrity and ability to supervise the loops properly.

 

[mattbuff5]

DEL -

The purple on RRS-Mos is simply to measure for a voltage switch correct? Is the pulsating not driven by the RRS-Mod internally? With this being said and my install description above in post #14, what changes do you suggest I make in both h wiring and programming? Be gentle, although I have a Computer/Electrical Engineering background, I'm new to the OPII.

 

[Del91574]

The purple wire on the RRS is for a voltage trigger. The dipswitch determines if the relay reverses on a steady voltage trigger or a temp-3 pulse. From memory, I believe the relay itself does generate the temp-3 pulse, since the relay does not trigger on a steady voltage when the dipswitch is set for pulsing.

Without really knowing specifics about your install, I would change the RRS to operate for steady voltage and then have the output turn on during fire alarm, off when reset, no timeout. Hit the purple with +12V through the relay contact of the OP and then program the output to turn on.

 

[cmarcus]

I finally got my OPII installed this weekend along with the smokes, the RSS-MOD, and the 2W-MOD2. I didn't expect it to work on my first try, but I also didn't expect to get stuck which is where I am.

I wired everything as in my diagram, but instead of connecting terminals 1 & 2 of the 2W-MOD2 to output 1 of the OPII I just wired them to the switched output available on the OPII. I have zone 1 programmed as a FIRE zone (32). When I power everything up, the 2WMOD2 green and red LEDs go solid. According to the documentation, this means detectors on the loop don't have communication (green LED) and that there is a detector on loop in alarm. The OPII says "ZN1-FIRE/SMK TRBL NOW". The smokes are getting power and work when tested, but they don't all go off.

I've checked the wiring multiple times. I don't see any mistakes. The only thing that seems odd is when I remove the wires going to zone 1 and measure the resistance is practically zero. I would expect it to be around 1k.

Any troubleshooting advice? My electrician is going kill me if I don't get this resolved soon. The next inspection requires the smokes to be operational.

Thanks in advance for any hints you can provide.

 

[Del91574]

If you have resistance of 0 or approaching 0 ohms, then you have a wiring issue. It may, though unlikely, be a bad detector, but you need to rule out the wiring first. You're going to have 2 EOLR values involved; the panel EOLR and the MOD2 EOLR.

Have you gotten the white paper of how to wire up a 2W-MOD2 and RRS module from System Sensor?

http://www.systemsensor.com/pdf/bulletins/modulewiring.pdf

I'd assume you're looking at doing figure 2. What you're essentially doing is converting the 2 wire circuit to act as a 4 wire circuit at the panel, with a second power feed that is completely independent from the switched power.

 

[cmarcus]

DEL - I'm using figure 1 which differs only in how the RRS trigger is wired. I have 2 EOLRs connected to the 2MOD. One for the fire zone and one for the trouble zone. Both are 1k panel EOLRs. When the 2MOD is not powered on, I measure 2.8k ohms across terminals 10 & 11. I can't find any obvious wiring flaws between the 2MOD and the OPII. The loop seems okay as well. When I disconnect the detectors from the RRS, I measure 3.9k ohms which is the EOLR value the RRS expects.

If I'm measuring almost zero ohms on the 2MOD fire zone, does this mean the 2MOD thinks its in alarm? In other words, during normal operation when a detector goes into alarm, does the 2MOD close and go to zero ohms? If so then perhaps I do have a bad detector, I should be able to remove each detector and jumper the IN+ and OUT+ terminals to close the loop. Knowing my luck, if it is a bad detector it will be one of the two that are 17ft up.

 

[cmarcus]

I made some progress this morning, but still not there yet. I took the RRS out of the equation and only connected one smoke to the 2WMOD2. It still indicated the smoke was in alarm. I swapped the smoke for another one and the 2WMOD2 started behaving as expected. So I put the bad smoke aside and put the RRS back in and added a second smoke to the loop to keep troubleshooting a little easier. I powered everything up and the 2WMOD2's green LED started blinking after 2 minutes. I believe this is expected and indicates that the smokes can communicate. I checked the smokes and their green LEDs were blinking every 5 sec as expected. I then pressed the EZ Walk button and the the 2WMOD2 went into EZ walk mode as indicated by the yellow LED. Both smokes behaved as expected with the green LEDs blinking twice every 5 sec. The OPII was happy and not reporting trouble on that zone.

I thought I was done, but when I went to test each smoke, I got no audible alarm out of either smoke. When I depress the test button, the red LED lights for about 1 sec and then nothing happens. Both smokes did this. After I do this, the LEDs on the smokes do nothing. The green LED no longer blinks every 5 sec. If I reset the panel, they go back to flashing as expected.

I find two things puzzling here. Why would the test fail? I would at least expect the alarm under test to have its sounder go off, but I get nothing. The other oddity is that no LEDs blink after pressing the test bottom. It seems highly unlikely that I also have a bad RRS, but I can't think of what else could be wrong here. How can I test the RRS to ensure it's functioning as expected?

 

[cmarcus]

Thanks to System Sensor tech support, I finally got things working. I had to disable Fire Alarm Verification in the OPII. Once I did that the 2WMOD2 started closing and tripping the fire zone. I had the RRS mode dipswitch in the wrong spot so once I changed that all the smokes started sounding. Now I just have to get that one smoke replaced. What luck that the first one I tested was the bad one.

I am curious about one thing, if anyone knows the answer. Through all my troubleshooting here, I ended up connecting the 2WMOD2 to zone 5 of the OPII and setting that to a fire zone. I plan on moving it back to zone 1 where I had it, but do I really need to set the jumper to SMK? It seems like the 2WMOD2 is behaving like any other NO sensor and that I should probably have the jumper on NRM. Can anyone confirm?

Thanks to everyone who contributed here. DELInstallations - many thanks for your input here.